Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

[PostColonial]

^The lies and mistakes of the US government are well known, and have been acknowledged.

On the other hand, Pakistani politicians and other officials have negative credibility. This means that if they say something, one must assume that the opposite is true. I think most Pakistanis would agree with me on this. However, when it comes to allegations against India, they suddenly seem to turn into truthful angels in the eyes of the same Pakistanis.

Oh and please, don't say that the same is true in India. Its not. Atleast at the level of Central Government, the word of India's officials is far more trustworthy, in the eyes of Indians and the world in general (except perhaps Pakistan)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^The lies and mistakes of the US government are well known, and have been acknowledged.

On the other hand, Pakistani politicians and other officials have negative credibility. This means that if they say something, one must assume that the opposite is true. I think most Pakistanis would agree with me on this. However, when it comes to allegations against India, they suddenly seem to turn into truthful angels in the eyes of the same Pakistanis.

Oh and please, don't say that the same is true in India. Its not. Atleast at the level of Central Government, the word of India's officials is far more trustworthy, in the eyes of Indians and the world in general (except perhaps Pakistan)

The lies and mistakes became known 'after the fact'. That is little consolation to the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, affected by those US actions.

The US 'protection racket' with respect to Israel continues, Iraq was just a few years ago, so if anything it illustrates that the US has learned little, and has chosen to continue to lie and deceive and hide the crimes of those it sees as serving its interests.

Your point about politicians applies to all of them, not just Pakistani ones. Check out the US opinion polls on what Americans think of their politicians and Congress.

Again, what US credibility?

 

[gubbi]

Again, what US credibility?

So,
US credibility was at its peak during the SU-Afghan war, Afghan civil war and during Pakistan's support to taliban's oppressive regime in Kabul?
US credibility is at its peak when US reports apparently support Pakistani claims of superiority over Indians - a la Chuck Yeager?
US credibility at its peak when US apparently supports Pakistani pov with regards to Kashmir?

And then,
US credibility took a steep dive once Armitage threatened Mush to bomb y'all back to the Indus valley civilization!

Lol. Geez mate that's pathetic. High school debates are different from real life situations.

Iraq was a blunder, everyone accepts that, except for neo-cons. Btw, where was Pakistan's voice when US decided to go into Iraq? Why did PA support US when they decided to go into Afghanistan? Mere mortals with limited intelligence like you and me don't understand the bigger picture. Those who do, influence events.

 

[nightcrawler]

Al-Jazeera latest footings Taliban showing huge USA made weaponry in their hands: See the video:

*******.com - online file sharing and storage - download Taliban displays 'US weapons' .flv

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So,
US credibility was at its peak during the SU-Afghan war, Afghan civil war and during Pakistan's support to taliban's oppressive regime in Kabul?

What credibility are you referring to there?

US credibility is at its peak when US reports apparently support Pakistani claims of superiority over Indians - a la Chuck Yeager?

That is not 'US credibility', but that of a renowned Air Force officer.

US credibility at its peak when US apparently supports Pakistani pov with regards to Kashmir?

The Pakistani POV is the UNSC POV, and as a member of the UN one would expect India to respect the UN charter, recognize the commitments made by its government to the UNSC resolutions and implement them.

And then,
US credibility took a steep dive once Armitage threatened Mush to bomb y'all back to the Indus valley civilization!

US credibility was low before that, given US actions I have highlighted.

Lol. Geez mate that's pathetic. High school debates are different from real life situations.

Agreed - so perhaps you will avoid offering childish diatribes that make no sense such as the above in the future.

Iraq was a blunder, everyone accepts that, except for neo-cons. Btw, where was Pakistan's voice when US decided to go into Iraq? Why did PA support US when they decided to go into Afghanistan? Mere mortals with limited intelligence like you and me don't understand the bigger picture. Those who do, influence events.

Speak for yourself when it comes to 'limited intelligence'. Iraq was a 'blunder' as you recognize, another nail in the coffin of US credibility.

And what about Afghanistan? I understand you claim to have limited intelligence, but the reasons behind Pakistani support for the US decision to invade Afghanistan have been discussed extensively both on this forum and bu analyst and commentators elsewhere, surely you can read through them to understand why if you have not already.

BTW, bullying other nations into supporting a war, when the objectives (getting OBL and AQ) could have been accomplished through other means, also indicates a 'lack of credibility'.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi--- your posts are extremely bizarre---- and reek of cheap propaganda and bigotry. You are either entirely clueless about how the world works or are sacrificing common sense for your parochial nonsense. I just calculated the star chart to assess your intellectual honesty, it happened to lead directly into a rancid black hole.

Energon,

How are you doing guy---what's up with your post---that was my first thought---but then I realized that there is more to it---why are the americans supporting the indians out and out---now I undertsand theindians are making the americans feel good---they are telling them that the americans are doing everything right and pakistan is the culprit all the way----Just like Jenny said to Joe---hey Joe----you do those wonderful thing to me like " no one else does "---so now Joe is going crazy against anyone who bad mouths Jenny---you clever dog you.

 

[nwmalik]

We cannot expect people to believe us without proof

 

[Energon]

There is no direct connection between the two, I corrected your attempt to introduce the Hindu-Zionist canard in here. However, there is a strong similarity in the sense that the in both cases the US has ignored crimes and sins of the Israel/India in pursuit of its perceived national interests.

We see that clearly in the case of Israel, and given the statements of the Pakistani leadership (recently those of Musharraf on Farid Zakaria's show), that the US has been provided documentary evidence several times related to India's role, it is becoming apparent that the US is following the same template as it does with Israel to ignore Indian crimes (support for subversive activities in Pakistan in this case) lest its strategic relationship and economic and military deals worth hundreds of billions of dollars become threatened.

Again, we saw that influence in the removal of Kashmir from Hollbrooke's brief, despite the fact that many US analysts recognized that a larger Pakistani military commitment on the Western front was tied into the Indo-Pak military equation in the East, which in turn was tied into Kashmir.

The facts are clear on this count - the template of the US relationship with India and Israel, is one of ignoring the crimes of the two for the sake of its own interests.

I'm not the one who brought up this ridiculous pairing of India and Israel; it is inherently illogical for you to blame this canard on me. The foundation of the US- Israel relationship has nothing in common with it's foreign policy toward India. All you're doing is dressing up and recycling popular conspiracy theories and then engaging in circuitous arguments to defend it. This was roadrunner's job.

Hence I opt to take the similar approach as I did with roadrunner.... I voluntarily withdraw from this argument and acquiesce to your repeated messages. You are right, India and Israel have nothing in common when it comes to their relationship with the US, but they are similar when it comes to their shady relationship with the US motivated by greed and profit. This diabolical relationship is of course exclusive to India and Israel, not Mexico, Columbia, Saudi Arabia or Canada. For the sake of billions in profit and trade the US is willing to take the suicidal decision allowing India to destabilize the AfPk region with impunity and compromising a conflict that will cost trillions. But this undoubtedly follows in the footsteps of the exclusive precedent set with Israel. All of this is of course specifically meant to discredit Pakistan and wreck its "image."

Also Musharraf claims to have provided documentary evidence to "everyone." Everyone is on board with this underhanded plan to support India and discredit Pakistan. This arrangement goes way beyond the US, India and RAW's puppet Afghan establishment.

 

[gubbi]

The Pakistani POV is the UNSC POV, and as a member of the UN one would expect India to respect the UN charter, recognize the commitments made by its government to the UNSC resolutions and implement them.

Perceptions. That's what YOU think.

Agreed - so perhaps you will avoid offering childish diatribes that make no sense such as the above in the future.

You just don't get it, do you? Why am I not surprised here.

Iraq was a 'blunder' as you recognize, another nail in the coffin of US credibility.

Oh so a few blunders shake the foundations of one of the strongest modern democracy's credibility? Measuring by the same yardstick, do you even realize where Pakistan stands? Rule of thumb: Don't go about questioning others' credibility when one has none, whatsoever.

I understand you claim to have limited intelligence,

I spoke for the majority when I said limited intelligence. Statistics support that majority of the population has limited intelligence and that's why they need leaders like cattle need cattle herds! People need leaders and no matter what we might say about such leaders, they are intelligent enough to control their flocks and influence events. That's what I meant by intelligence! We both know where we stand in the bigger picture!

but the reasons behind Pakistani support for the US decision to invade Afghanistan have been discussed extensively both on this forum and bu analyst and commentators elsewhere, surely you can read through them to understand why if you have not already.

I have read many such threads. Let me summarize it - in simpler words - they are all excuses - for getting oneself into a tight corner and when given an opportunity to extract oneself from it - grabbing it as if there's no tomorrow! That's why Pakistan is towing US pov.

BTW, bullying other nations into supporting a war, when the objectives (getting OBL and AQ) could have been accomplished through other means, also indicates a 'lack of credibility'.

Care to elaborate how? OBL and AQ took sanctuary on Pakistani soil or atleast those areas where Pakistan supposedly claims sovereignty. You had no choice. Plain and simple. You were part of the mess. Either get into the bandwagon or be the target! A silver lining in all this I see is that GoP is trying to exercise its writ/sovereignty in those areas! Aint that good now?

 

[deathfromabove]

Afghans: India Using Afghanistan Soil To Destabilize Pakistan

April 2, 2009

“India is using Afghan soil to destabilize Pakistan and Afghan security agencies are unable to stop Indian intervention due to absence of centralized government mechanism”, says Afghan Government’s Advisor, Ehsanullah Aryanzai on sidelines of Pak-Afgan Parliamentary Jirga at a local hotel.

“Now, we have to move practically and take action instead of merely relying upon verbal assurances and intentions,” he said.

Abdul Hameed Mobarez, chief of Afghan Journalists Organization and former minister, said that Pakistan government and people have always supported peace efforts in Afghanistan as they wanted to see their muslim neighbor peaceful and prosperous.

“Our problem is common, both Pakistan and Afghanistan are victims of terrorism. Therefore, we need to list common objectives and set joint strategy for security of our homelands,” he said.

“Let us go forward. Respect each other’s sovereignty and avoid verbal confrontation otherwise our common enemy will exploit the opportunities to create division in our friendly relations,” maintained Mobarez.

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Afgan MPs call for early withdrawal of foreign troops

 

[Solomon2]

See? There you go, it's only a claim, but this "proof through repetition" will stick in people's minds far longer than the fact that no such proofs really exist. Why doesn't Mobarez call Aryanzai to account?

 

[Hulk]

The objective of blaming India is to garner support of population against TTP and it clearly shows. While they have succeded in making sure Pakistani's believe this and they have done a good job. They will never provide any proof since they do not have to. They have such a big list of people who will imagin stories to defend them on why they have not provided proof.

 

[deckingraj]

The objective of blaming India is to garner support of population against TTP and it clearly shows. While they have succeded in making sure Pakistani's believe this and they have done a good job. They will never provide any proof since they do not have to. They have such a big list of people who will imagin stories to defend them on why they have not provided proof.

buddy may i ask how many times you have seen proof when for any attack on india and her interests ISI is blamed??? I am not refuting your point but what i am trying to say is that because of the animosity masses have become so gullible that it doesn't matter there is any proof or not any wrong doing is because of our adversary...Now we being a more mature democracy are comparatively better in forming opinions than our pakistani counterparts...nothing more nothing less

 

[Hulk]

buddy may i ask how many times you have seen proof when for any attack on india and her interests ISI is blamed??? I am not refuting your point but what i am trying to say is that because of the animosity masses have become so gullible that it doesn't matter there is any proof or not any wrong doing is because of our adversary...Now we being a more mature democracy are comparatively better in forming opinions than our pakistani counterparts...nothing more nothing less

Dude read my earlier post. I have never said that possibilty of Indian hand is ruled out neither otherwise. But I am not ready to believe that India is doing all this until process is followed. If they come up with proofs I will accept it and conden it as well. What hurts is even after GOP accepting 26/11 was planned in Pak, still people refuse it. Last I never say this is it read, read my post I always use possible.

 

[jamesbond000111]

i am just waiting for my Indian friends to Comment before i do

vow what a story , pakistan is saying: india spreading terrorism in pakistan , WELL pakistan itself is a factory of terrorism , india understand the reality of its neighbor from 1980's but now the whole world knows about it and i must say gre--------------------a------------t pakistan's biggest achievement in six decades of its independence is the world famous terrorism