Promoting anti-science via textbooks - by PERVEZ HOODBHOY

[Salik]

Islam is a religion for up to the end of this world.

Yea it is very much visible. You can't even see the Moon if there are clouds. You are determined to see it sitting on the back of camel. Science tells you exact age of the Moon. You are still confused accept it or not.

 

[kṣamā]

Now before few guys calling it foul, granting me negative ratings and banning me, let's make somethings clear. Anti Scientific mentality is present thought humanity regardless of geopolitical boundaries and time. And generally people will stick to some older ideas than to adapt to new ones. And unfortunately enough many of these ideas have their originally from religious teachings. But that's not to criticize any religion. Humans are a curious bunch and there is a good reason for that. At some point or the other some of us have questioned what is the reason for life? Why are we alive? What are we here for? And more often than not we seek solace of religion. There almost exclusively we are preached "This is how god made us". For some that is enough to satisfy them for other troubled souls, that's not it. They look further. But no matter which group a person falls in they keep propogating ideas to others and their offspring. That idea maybe how to create fire, how to hunt for food, how to grow food etc etc. And if you look closer this is how every single lifeform behaves. The offsprings are generally "taught" life skills by its parents and it teaches its offspring. People can argue why such kind of cycle exists as life is precious and fragile. But nevertheless people from time gone by have tried to record and pass on information to the next generation. Information at time may have been relevent and correct, may not carry any relevance and correctnes now.

The reality is that evolution is the biggest farce that has been committed in the name of science. Due to the extreme marginalization at the hands of the Church in the middle aged, scientists have acquired a hatred of the concept of God. This hatred leads them to accept their forefathers are monkeys rather than the fact that we are all descended from Adam and Eve.

Darwin theory is a theory... means its not scientifiacally proven so far...
Survival of fitest does not explain why one species evolved into lion (predator) and another in deer (prey).. pleas also consider predator wont survive without prey...but prey can....heck with evolution

I am saying darwin theory is even rejected by scientists ... then why people here are relating it to religion ???

So do you belive immunization causes autism? Bcoz that's the same percentage of ppl that oppose immunization and reject Evolution. And it is for good reason. The Scientific community actually works in a way that makes this kind of statistics happen. It works like this, One guy observes some phenomenon, like say when exploding a cracker under water, you see two distinct fire ball. One when the actual exothermic reaction happens and gasses expand creating a shock wave, and second when the nearby mass of water pressure again compresses the air cavity formed by the expanding gasses. Now he may hypothyse that unburnt carbon recombines with traces of oxygen, under extreme pressure (By the large body of water pushing on the air bubble) produced by the oxidizer and created that small fireball. Now it is upto me to prove or disprove my hypothesis. And maybe technological hurdles may even stop me from understanding it better. Few decades later you may try the same thing. But you may have a phantom high speed camera and a gas spectrometer as you can afford it. And while performing the experiment you identify that there are trace amounts of other inorganic chemicals that too auto ignites under certain conditions adding to the slightly different color of the secondary fireball. This though a new finding dose not negate the previous one. Rather it give another possible outcome which may occour under special condition and is extremely rare. Same is the case with Immunization - Autism, Evolution and even Gravity.

Why did evolution stop... why dont we have a tribe coming out of south africa saying guys we just turned humans??why is there no documented history of this ever happening??
Why are milllions of most evolved humans with most advanced technologies die from infections of from most primitive bacterias?? Sepsis is leading cause of death world wide...

This theory is a very simplistic view to a very complex issue... it hardly touches 1% of total picture...

As a basic info, evolution plays out at far bigger time scale than organic life. If I may, I would like you to see below...

This shows different phases of embryos development.

As you see every animal on the evolutionar tree shares something from its evolutionary cousins.

Given enough time (Couple a million years) we can see evolutionary changes in different species. If we consider the entire cosmic time line (ie, from the start of time to NOW) and shrink it to a calender year, life did not begin till August. Mamals did not step on land till Nov end and we humans did not show up till 11:59PM of 31st Dec. That's how long it takes evolution to do its magic.

Why do monkeys today choosing to stay monkeys... dont they want to become humans...

I think you have a but of misunderstanding... Evolution is not a journey with predefined start and end. It is very much a process which is going to end only when organic life ceases to exist. Think of evolution as a tree. Not all leaves wants to be or get to be the top most leave but they do travel far out from the center trunk. Similarly not all evolutions will result in Humans, maybe they can evolve into something else. Who knows given enough time during the teraforming period we may not just have carbon based life but also silicon based ones...

Religion is very important for our philosofical, spritual, mental evolution. Without religion many of us were very close to animals mating here and there and hunting each other. Religion help us form social structure and preserve humanity.

Science is equally important, without science we were not discussing this on pdf.

For once I will have to agree with you....

 

[The Accountant]

Now before few guys calling it foul, granting me negative ratings and banning me, let's make somethings clear. Anti Scientific mentality is present thought humanity regardless of geopolitical boundaries and time. And generally people will stick to some older ideas than to adapt to new ones. And unfortunately enough many of these ideas have their originally from religious teachings. But that's not to criticize any religion. Humans are a curious bunch and there is a good reason for that. At some point or the other some of us have questioned what is the reason for life? Why are we alive? What are we here for? And more often than not we seek solace of religion. There almost exclusively we are preached "This is how god made us". For some that is enough to satisfy them for other troubled souls, that's not it. They look further. But no matter which group a person falls in they keep propogating ideas to others and their offspring. That idea maybe how to create fire, how to hunt for food, how to grow food etc etc. And if you look closer this is how every single lifeform behaves. The offsprings are generally "taught" life skills by its parents and it teaches its offspring. People can argue why such kind of cycle exists as life is precious and fragile. But nevertheless people from time gone by have tried to record and pass on information to the next generation. Information at time may have been relevent and correct, may not carry any relevance and correctnes now.





So do you belive immunization causes autism? Bcoz that's the same percentage of ppl that oppose immunization and reject Evolution. And it is for good reason. The Scientific community actually works in a way that makes this kind of statistics happen. It works like this, One guy observes some phenomenon, like say when exploding a cracker under water, you see two distinct fire ball. One when the actual exothermic reaction happens and gasses expand creating a shock wave, and second when the nearby mass of water pressure again compresses the air cavity formed by the expanding gasses. Now he may hypothyse that unburnt carbon recombines with traces of oxygen, under extreme pressure (By the large body of water pushing on the air bubble) produced by the oxidizer and created that small fireball. Now it is upto me to prove or disprove my hypothesis. And maybe technological hurdles may even stop me from understanding it better. Few decades later you may try the same thing. But you may have a phantom high speed camera and a gas spectrometer as you can afford it. And while performing the experiment you identify that there are trace amounts of other inorganic chemicals that too auto ignites under certain conditions adding to the slightly different color of the secondary fireball. This though a new finding dose not negate the previous one. Rather it give another possible outcome which may occour under special condition and is extremely rare. Same is the case with Immunization - Autism, Evolution and even Gravity.

As a basic info, evolution plays out at far bigger time scale than organic life. If I may, I would like you to see below...

This shows different phases of embryos development.

As you see every animal on the evolutionar tree shares something from its evolutionary cousins.

Given enough time (Couple a million years) we can see evolutionary changes in different species. If we consider the entire cosmic time line (ie, from the start of time to NOW) and shrink it to a calender year, life did not begin till August. Mamals did not step on land till Nov end and we humans did not show up till 11:59PM of 31st Dec. That's how long it takes evolution to do its magic.

I think you have a but of misunderstanding... Evolution is not a journey with predefined start and end. It is very much a process which is going to end only when organic life ceases to exist. Think of evolution as a tree. Not all leaves wants to be or get to be the top most leave but they do travel far out from the center trunk. Similarly not all evolutions will result in Humans, maybe they can evolve into something else. Who knows given enough time during the teraforming period we may not just have carbon based life but also silicon based ones...


For once I will have to agree with you....

Few queries ...

1) its a hypothesis and not yet proven by anyone so i can accept it or reject it even basis of principle of science ... so if i reject it based on the fact that it is not proved than why you call me anti science .. religious fanatic etc etc ...

2) i agree evolution is not predefined path and some came to top of the tree then my question to you is how is it possible that humans are so much at the top and there is no intermidiary species between human and animals ??? if evaluation is true then there must be an species of dwarfs ... there must be some species of giants .. there must be some species of very high intellectual beings ... there must be some species of low intellectuals just slightly above monkeys ...

Evolution of human body is different but human specie is a result of evaluation is based on entirely false hypothesis ...

 

[Techy Hassan]

Please look at the time line on Wikipedia. The distance between dinosaurs and earliest humans is about 250 million years. that is 2500 00000 years.


Now i have a question. If dinosaurs and similar animals were present and reproducing sexually using meiosis. Any genetic change for evolution to happen in the DNA would require some changes in the sperm cells present in the testicles of any male and that very sperm cell fusing into a compatible egg from the female. And that would produce either a male or female (or a shemale ).

So that upgraded male or female would require to produce a large number of upgraded animals by finding a compatible male or female and producing successfully a lot of members of that new specie.

Now again there is a change required in the sperm cells in the testicles of a male and that very sperm cell fusing again into a compatible egg. and again producing a large population for further upgrades to species.

Given that the many animals were present on land. There was not much of the radiation left on the planet to enter the testicles of many animals or ovaries to produce changes. Other wise all animals would die of cancers caused by radiation.

Now you see that the vast changes were not possible at that time. And only small changes like two siblings having slightly different face features etc were only possible.

Now even if we apply principles of probability and assume that only 5 years is the time for a single change or upgrade to a specie to a better (or closer to present day human form) .

And lets assume there are total of only 20 upgrades. the time required is 5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5 = 95,367,431,640,625 years = 95,367,43 Million Years and it already exceeds earliest earth time!

I can only give you an idea about it now and if i was properly funded just like Hoodhbhoy or Dawkins i could write detailed books on it with much more accurate calculations.

 

[Salik]

Please look at the time line on Wikipedia. The distance between dinosaurs and earliest humans is about 250 million years. that is 2500 00000 years.


Now i have a question. If dinosaurs and similar animals were present and reproducing sexually using meiosis. Any genetic change for evolution to happen in the DNA would require some changes in the sperm cells present in the testicles of any male and that very sperm cell fusing into a compatible egg from the female. And that would produce either a male or female (or a shemale ).

So that upgraded male or female would require to produce a large number of upgraded animals by finding a compatible male or female and producing successfully a lot of members of that new specie.

Now again there is a change required in the sperm cells in the testicles of a male and that very sperm cell fusing again into a compatible egg. and again producing a large population for further upgrades to species.

Given that the many animals were present on land. There was not much of the radiation left on the planet to enter the testicles of many animals or ovaries to produce changes. Other wise all animals would die of cancers caused by radiation.

Now you see that the vast changes were not possible at that time. And only small changes like two siblings having slightly different face features etc were only possible.

Now even if we apply principles of probability and assume that only 5 years is the time for a single change or upgrade to a specie to a better (or closer to present day human form) .

And lets assume there are total of only 20 upgrades. the time required is 5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5*5 = 95,367,431,640,625 years = 95,367,43 Million Years and it already exceeds earliest earth time!

I can only give you an idea about it now and if i was properly funded just like Hoodhbhoy or Dawkins i could write detailed books on it with much more accurate calculations.

I don't think it takes that much time the way things are happening around us. Every month there's new cell phone model. In 1903 plane was invented and in mere sixty years we were on the Moon. Looks like human DNA is most efficient one and is multiplying very quickly with regard to brain capacity rather than physical capacity. We are not going to grow wings naturally but we'll have such a brain that with little gene modification we will have amazing results.

It shows evolution isn't a slow process and humans are on top viz a viz natural selection.

 

[kṣamā]

Few queries ...

1) its a hypothesis and not yet proven by anyone so i can accept it or reject it even basis of principle of science ... so if i reject it based on the fact that it is not proved than why you call me anti science .. religious fanatic etc etc ...

2) i agree evolution is not predefined path and some came to top of the tree then my question to you is how is it possible that humans are so much at the top and there is no intermidiary species between human and animals ??? if evaluation is true then there must be an species of dwarfs ... there must be some species of giants .. there must be some species of very high intellectual beings ... there must be some species of low intellectuals just slightly above monkeys ...

Evolution of human body is different but human specie is a result of evaluation is based on entirely false hypothesis ...

Good to see that you are ready to discuss. But first let me clear the air, I have not addressed you as Religious Fanatic. Ok lets discuss....

1. Yes & No. Evolution as a theory is proven by a truck load of evidence... quite literally. Every fossil we have dug up since we have started looking can be classified and placed on the evolution tree. We not only have biological evidence which support evolution but also archeological. Walk in a good museum floor and you can see skeletons of Mamals. If you look closer you will notice how different adaptation have made noticeable physical changes on the skeletons. The adaptations maybe where triggered due to the changes in environment like changes in food habits altering beak size and form or Sahelanthropus adopting full bipedal as it served many purpose but mainly helped in hunting for food running long distances. So now you can go ahead and reject evolution but what proof do you present for its rejection. Unlike kids we can just say "I donn belive in Evolution bcoz i donn like it!! ". Moreover If Adman and Eve is how humans came to being how did others came to life? Animal version of adam & eve?

2. Yes there where many members of the Hominoidea super family. Homosapiens are also a part of this. Earliest of bipedal came to wander the face of the earth arround 7 milion years ago arround the miocene epoch of Neogene period. After this came Orroin(6 million yrs ago), Ardipithecus (4.4 MYA), Australopithecus (3.5 MYA), Homo Habilis(2.1 MYA), Homo erectus(1 MYA) [Yup erectus... cue erection jokes] and finally Homo sapian...

I don't think it takes that much time the way things are happening around us. Every month there's new cell phone model. In 1903 plane was invented and in mere sixty years we were on the Moon. Looks like human DNA is most efficient one and is multiplying very quickly with regard to brain capacity rather than physical capacity. We are not going to grow wings naturally but we'll have such a brain that with little gene modification we will have amazing results.

It shows evolution isn't a slow process and humans are on top viz a viz natural selection.

True that.. with the boom in human population and the no of offsprings being poped every year, genetic evolution is speeding up. Like few thousand years ago humans just had brown eyes. Years of cross breading and mutation caused OCA2 gene to "Switch" to literally "Turn off". This gene codes for P-protein which in turn is responsible for production of Melanin. Actually it dose not completely turn off Melanin production but rather limits its action to reduce the production of Melanin in the Iris effectively diluting brown to blue.

 

[haviZsultan]

Best not to push Havi, he has been through a lot, and has some serious family problems. You wouldn't want to upset him, just because of an online argument. Ignore him. From what I hear, very decent family background.

@Khafee I have nothing personal against you. I was merely expressing my views under the premise of discussion. You took it very personally.