Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Falconless]

Ukraine can give us if we invest there but our leaders will lose this chance also

Nah, we’d rather delude ourselves into thinking Russia is an ally while they only use us to entice the Indians to buy Russian weapons

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

we’d rather delude ourselves into thinking Russia is an ally

Bhai even kids know that Russia is not our ally.

 

[Indos]

Bhai can you explain in detail what will Indonesia learn by 20 percent stake in KFX? How much this will lift Indonesian aerospace industry?

1. Experience in designing a Stealth jet fighter. Previously Dirgantara Indonesia only has experience in designing a transport aircraft. 116 Indonesian design engineers now have the experience on designing a Stealth fighter jet. This will also make the engineers have more capability if someday Wingman drone or maybe fighter drone program are being pursue.

If we keep being in the program, it means we will get more knowledge during the testing phase and also during operational inshaAllah as we will get 1 prototype to be made in Indonesia and also other data during the testing stage of 7 prototypes tested in KAI will also be shared to DI. More understanding will be gained to see the comparison between wind tunnel testing and real flight.

2. In production we also will gain more knowledge on new manufacturing method and will start using robotic system

3. This project will make Indonesia Aerospace will produce jet fighter and it means in the future this line of business will likely to continue, just like our transport program which keep making newer plane. KF 21/IFX is also keep being developed into 6 generation fighter based on latest news (previously the program is to make the plane until block 3). This make the industry has more products, that is good for their business

4. I would say this program will also push DI to produce more planes within a year and give them more profit that will make their business more profitable. As Indonesia is expected to have Essential Force program after Minimum Essential Force is completed in 2029, thus more planes will likely be bought ( if the program is inshaAllah successful), I would say we could buy around 200 planes, not mentioning if we also develop Wingman drone. It can potentially give Dirgantara Indonesia secured income and sales for quite long time

5. As DI has 1 prototype as experimental plane, so this prototype will make the engineers has some kind of vehicle to do various test that can excel their understanding and expertise in fighter jet design and also system integration. The prototype also possibly become the vehicle to get many knowledge on avionics and other components by using reverse engineering method and this of course will have to include other companies with expertise in electronics, engine, and other

6. It give better image on DI and this can effect their business in term of getting more support from leasing companies/banking system on their transport plane business, which mean their customer will get easier and cheaper financing from the leasing/banking industry

7. Base on recent renegotiation, DI will not only participate in fuselage manufacturing and assembling of IFX, but also component in cockpit and engine. DI also has a subsidiary company who specialize in turbine manufacturing and engine MRO. That is the plan from Habibie where in the future this company (PT Nusantara Turbin dan Propulsi) can make jet engine

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

1. Experience in designing a Stealth jet fighter. Previously Dirgantara Indonesia only has experience in designing a transport aircraft. 116 Indonesian design engineers now have the experience on designing a Stealth fighter jet. This will also make the engineers have more capability if someday Wingman drone or maybe fighter drone program are being pursue.

If we keep being in the program, it means we will get more knowledge during the testing phase and also during operational inshaAllah as we will get 1 prototype to be made in Indonesia and also other data during the testing stage of 7 prototypes tested in KAI will also be shared to DI. More understanding will be gained to see the comparison between wind tunnel testing and real flight.

2. In production we also will gain more knowledge on new manufacturing method and will start using robotic system

3. This project will make Indonesia Aerospace will produce jet fighter and it means in the future this line of business will likely to continue, just like our transport program which keep making newer plane. KF 21/IFX is also keep being developed into 6 generation fighter based on latest news (previously the program is to make the plane until block 3). This make the industry has more products, that is good for their business

4. I would say this program will also push DI to produce more planes within a year and give them more profit that will make their business more profitable. As Indonesia is expected to have Essential Force program after Minimum Essential Force is completed in 2029, thus more planes will likely be bought ( if the program is inshaAllah successful), I would say we could buy around 200 planes, not mentioning if we also develop Wingman drone. It can potentially give Dirgantara Indonesia secured income and sales for quite long time

5. As DI has 1 prototype as experimental plane, so this prototype will make the engineers has some kind of vehicle to do various test that can excel their understanding and expertise in fighter jet design and also system integration. The prototype also possibly become the vehicle to get many knowledge on avionics and other components by using reverse engineering method and this of course will have to include other companies with expertise in electronics, engine, and other

6. It give better image on DI and this can effect their business in term of getting more support from leasing companies/banking system on their transport plane business, which mean their customer will get easier and cheaper financing from the leasing/banking industry

7. Base on recent renegotiation, DI will not only participate in fuselage manufacturing and assembling of IFX, but also component in cockpit and engine. DI also has a subsidiary company who specialize in turbine manufacturing and engine MRO. That is the plan from Habibie where in the future this company (PT Nusantara Turbin dan Propulsi) can make jet engine

thank you bhai for such a comprehensive reply.best of luck for your aerospace industry

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

1. Preliminary Design (basic design)
2. Detail Design ( Critical Design Review is a stage where detail design almost complete)
3. Make a prototype

I hope PAF is following this approach.

A design cycle will end by next year, after which foreign partner(s) are being

 

[JamD]

I hope PAF is following this approach.

There's a step 0 in @Indos's post, which is conceptual design. That is where AvRID currently is.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

There's a step 0 in @Indos's post, which is conceptual design. That is where AvRID currently is.

According to @Indos detailed design phase of TFX will start from 2023.
Can AvRID finish its basic design by 2023?

Remember indian AMCA project started in 2010 and its almost 11 years now, still
not a single prototype in testing phase.

 

[Riz]

 

[JamD]

According to @Indos detailed design phase of TFX will start from 2023.
Can AvRID finish its basic design by 2023?

No.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

According to @Indos detailed design phase of TFX will start from 2023.
Can AvRID finish its basic design by 2023?

Remember indian AMCA project started in 2010 and its almost 11 years now, still
not a single prototype in testing phase.

According to the TAI boss, Prof Dr Temel Kotil, TFX is getting out of the hunger after 18 months in 2023 for the ground tests (engine rolling means all systems are functional).....

 

[Big_bud]

Here's a paper that sheds some light on the design configurations under study under Azm. @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @kursed Look at (c) for the YF-23 with canards concept.
View attachment 779676
View attachment 779677

These are some seriously impressive designs!

 

[Scorpiooo]

IMO, As per current news and situation its seems very much clear that AZM will be JV with TFX programs initially atleast for initial blocks as same jet, yes in later block it can be enhancement with special customization for PAF need at that time

In past we have seems statement from PAF senior that TAI TFX is very much aligned with PAF speculations

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Sale of JF 17 to Argentina and Iraq will bring at least 300-400 million US dollar for PAC.
Hope this will accelerate work on project Azm.JF 17 project costed us 500 million US Dollar.As 5th Gen. fighters are expensive,may be 2 Billion US dollar will be enough.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sale of JF 17 to Argentina and Iraq will bring at least 300-400 million US dollar for PAC.
Hope this will accelerate work on project Azm.JF 17 project costed us 500 million US Dollar.As 5th Gen. fighters are expensive,may be 2 Billion US dollar will be enough.

Most of the money from JF-17 sales will go into sourcing inputs, such as engines, materials (e.g., aluminium), electronics, etc. If we localized all of these inputs, then yes, our margin could theoretically be higher (not necessarily though, but if we localized inputs, more of the money would circulate in our economy). However, we'll be imported the majority of the imports, so our margin is minimal (relative to the total cost of the aircraft).

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Most of the money from JF-17 sales will go into sourcing inputs, such as engines, materials (e.g., aluminium), electronics, etc. If we localized all of these inputs, then yes, our margin could theoretically be higher (not necessarily though, but if we localized inputs, more of the money would circulate in our economy). However, we'll be imported the majority of the imports, so our margin is minimal (relative to the total cost of the aircraft).

So we are just assembling the whole kit coming from China.
Same will happen if we will work with some other country for our NGFA.
Butut good news is that PAC is reportedly working on AESA radar,HUD,etc.this will also bring money in long run.now if we can field our own AAM then this will take us to whole new level.