Progression of secularism : 'Incest is no longer a taboo,' says Australian judge Garry Neilson

[padamchen]

Is it not completely retarded to draw a parallel between this and being secular? I am afraid that some people (I shall not generalize) have less than zero idea about what secularism actually means or entails. Which is why you read some real gems on social media, including here.

 

[T-Rex]

Some 'gems' on this forum think that suckularism is all about keeping Islamic thoughts out of government but it's okay for the Hindu gurus in india or say the Christian crusaders in the west or genocidal Buddhist monks in Burma to run the show.

 

[padamchen]

Some 'gems' on this forum think that suckularism is all about keeping Islamic thoughts out of government but it's okay for the Hindu gurus in india or say the Christian crusaders in the west or genocidal Buddhist monks in Burma to run the show.

Bhai, you guys have got two whole countries to run. Knock yourselves out! Break a leg. Break both in fact.

 

[cocomo]

You cannot defend ban on incest (with protection) on secular grounds even devout new-atheist Lawrence Krauss conceded there is nothing wrong with incest (with protection).

 

[Luffy 500]

Watch this. From California.

Well technically there is no Dar Al Islam (in today's world) to escape from.
Also Daesh/ISIS have been covertly supported by many nations in "Dar Al harb".

Most people would strongly resist homosexual marriage being part of their laws and culture (if we were living in the 1950's).
A sophisticated agenda has been at work, first by decriminalizing homosexuality and then by making it acceptable in social culture with the use of TV/Movies and then enacted legislation after society has accepted it.

If the powers that be decide to do the same thing with incest, who knows in 50 years time, maybe a mother and son or even a mother and daughter may end up wedded?

@Luffy 500

You are spot on brother. The social and moral degradation of the west did not happen overnight. It happened in stages. its definitely the end result of the ideology of "enlightened" post-christian west but the media and rampant crony capitalism acted as catalyst.

Also don't forget it effected muslim world as well. Most of our education has been white education i.e the current education system builds a pro-western construct in the students who come out of the the westernized education mill after 15-16 years. Every time a muslim borrows western narratives of "human rights" , "women rights" to defend islam or tries to conform and deform Islam to "liberal secularism" , realize that the guy in question has been badly effected by the westernized education mill. We need to islamize our classroom and education environment so that muslim students come out of the mill with their minds intact and that means not allowing US and western NGOs dictate what our education curriculum should be.

@Apprentice @Mrc @Zarvan

@Luffy 500 there are other things on their priority list as well. Bestiality and special brothels for that, cannibalism as a fetish, wide spread naturism and last but not the least orgy conventions and parades.

Slowly its coming. Beastality is already legal in certain countries like Denmark. I think incest and necrophilia would be next to get the liberal endorsement. Let them get over their "gender-neutrality" mania.

You cannot defend ban on incest (with protection) on secular grounds even devout new-atheist Lawrence Krauss conceded there is nothing wrong with incest (with protection).

Bro you are spot on. The intellectually colonized secular liberals in the muslim world are either too oblivious of that or they genuinely want and encourages all sorts or vice like homosexuality, aldultery, incest, beastality etc etc knowingly. These secular liberals are a cancer to the muslim world and is the bigger enemy to muslims, more so than zionists, USA or Russia.

 

[Luffy 500]

@Zarvan @Apprentice @nightRider @TMA

Btw guys how many of you guys agree with me on this fable I constructed below:

year 2036

Incest and incestuous marriage has been legally accepted in the west and China, India and japan is considering legalizing it. Mean while muslim world is yet to legalize even homosexual relations let alone other western vices. The UN has endorsed incest, beastality , necrophilia and the concept of gender-neutrality as part of the UN declaration of Human rights and trade relations are linked to these rights. International NGOs, rights groups and western politicians are increasingly calling the muslim world as "needing reform" and that the muslim world is backward and uncivilized. US president gives a speech saying "incest is human rights and human rights is incest rights and anyone disagreeing with this statement is an incestphobe". Countries are ranked based on these parameters of Human and societal rights and norms and the muslim world as usual is at the bottom of the table. UN, USA , China is calling for text book reform in countries like Pakistan , BD, Malaysia and KSA saying that text book carry hate materials against people confused about their gender, sexuality and sexual inclinations. Seeing this, frustrated & intellectually colonized liberals blame the "evil mullas" for forcing religion down the throat of "dumb muslim masses". They struggle to comprehend why the hell muslim don't like to get banged by a horse while many of them find Zia Ul Haq, Moududi and Hassan Al banna to be responsible for muslims refusing to accept these new set of "enlightened western human rights". Some of them btw are a bit more clever than their compatriots. They continue to delude themselves that they can still be a muslim and liberal secular at the same time. They spent their entire life trying to deform Islam and use hermetical gymnastics to somehow conform Quran and Sunnah to what they think is the ultimate truth i.e Liberal secularism.Failing to deform Islam with these new set of western values, they reject Hadith completely along with vast portions of Quranic verses. As most of them become too frustrated they openly call for the west to attack muslim lands and civilize muslims. Their owned media outlets beats the drums of war trying to create chaos and civil war in muslim lands while west, china and russia prepares to invade muslim lands with their resident agents inside these lands.

P.S - Its just a fable to draw comparison to what has happened in the past 100 years. As a muslim I obviously believe that Islam will triumph over every other ism and way of life and that our future is bright Insha'Allah. Also there will be many muslims and non-muslims inside west, china, russia who will fight against the societal vices and corruption of their goverment and elite.

 

[TMA]

@Zarvan @Apprentice @nightRider @TMA

Btw guys how many of you guys agree with me on this fable I constructed below:

year 2036

Incest and incestuous marriage has been legally accepted in the west and China, India and japan is considering legalizing it. Mean while muslim world is yet to legalize even homosexual relations let alone other western vices. The UN has endorsed incest, beastality , necrophilia and the concept of gender-neutrality as part of the UN declaration of Human rights and trade relations are linked to these rights. International NGOs, rights groups and western politicians are increasingly calling the muslim world as "needing reform" and that the muslim world is backward and uncivilized. US president gives a speech saying "incest is human rights and human rights is incest rights and anyone disagreeing with this statement is an incestphobe". Countries are ranked based on these parameters of Human and societal rights and norms and the muslim world as usual is at the bottom of the table. UN, USA , China is calling for text book reform in countries like Pakistan , BD, Malaysia and KSA saying that text book carry hate materials against people confused about their gender, sexuality and sexual inclinations. Seeing this, frustrated & intellectually colonized liberals blame the "evil mullas" for forcing religion down the throat of "dumb muslim masses". They struggle to comprehend why the hell muslim don't like to get banged by a horse while many of them find Zia Ul Haq, Moududi and Hassan Al banna to be responsible for muslims refusing to accept these new set of "enlightened western human rights". Some of them btw are a bit more clever than their compatriots. They continue to delude themselves that they can still be a muslim and liberal secular at the same time. They spent their entire life trying to deform Islam and use hermetical gymnastics to somehow conform Quran and Sunnah to what they think is the ultimate truth i.e Liberal secularism.Failing to deform Islam with these new set of western values, they reject Hadith completely along with vast portions of Quranic verses. As most of them become too frustrated they openly call for the west to attack muslim lands and civilize muslims. Their owned media outlets beats the drums of war trying to create chaos and civil war in muslim lands while west, china and russia prepares to invade muslim lands with their resident agents inside these lands.

P.S - Its just a fable to draw comparison to what has happened in the past 100 years. As a muslim I obviously believe that Islam will triumph over every other ism and way of life and that our future is bright Insha'Allah. Also there will be many muslims and non-muslims inside west, china, russia who will fight against the societal vices and corruption of their goverment and elite.

Why would China call for textbook reform in Pakistan?
Russia prepares to invade Muslim land? You mean Turkey?


There are many Muslims who WISH they could "delete" many ayahs from the Quran...but this can never be.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Incest isn't progression. What's progressive? This is backward ideologies. The world has a hit a downward moral slope. It's disgusting to say the least.

 

[TMA]

Incest isn't progression. What's progressive? This is backward ideologies. The world has a hit a downward moral slope. It's disgusting to say the least.

From a dialectical perspective it would be progression.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

From a dialectical perspective it would be progression.

Hence my comment on a downward slope. What does it bring to a family in Pakistan with nothing to eat? There are far greater problems than homosexuality and incest to worry about. These things don't improve a better standard of living as a whole. They only create more conflict.

 

[TMA]

Hence my comment on a downward slope. What does it bring to a family in Pakistan with nothing to eat? There are far greater problems than homosexuality and incest to worry about. These things don't improve a better standard of living as a whole. They only create more conflict.

That is the purpose...conflict, destruction, misery...more enslavement.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Incest and incestuous marriage

Right let explain few things to your Bangla ingrated brain. In the West even cousin marriage is looked down as a degenerate practice. In a godless millieu like China morals, rules and precepts are grounded in laws of nature. It is scientific fact that close relationship marriage will increase the possibility of having unhealthy children. That is why in the West some are suggesting that a public health campaign be launched to stop people like you doing in your cousins because it produces a very sickly race as epitomized by your Bangla people.

You however are going against all scientific facts and assume the Chinese or the West will allow incest which is even worse than cousin marriage as it would have detrimental effect on the nations health. News for you, ingrate, the Chinese and West are busy trying to improve their human stock not commit suicide and sink into the Bay of Bengal. So get a grip on your senses. I personally think when the Pakistan Army was in Bangla that was 'progression'. You of course are at liberty to decide disagree.

Did it occur to Pakistani's here (not bothered about those who have head just above the water) that the two solid allies Pakistan has , Turkey and China are secular and athiest. Go ask the Chinese if they allow cousin marriages let alone incest. As a reminder Chinese have been official athiest now for nearly 70 years. So you want to look at what athiesm is - well China today is perfect example of that. You don't need to go 2036. Just hop over to China.

@Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @beast89 @SinoSoldier @Sinopakfriend

 

[gambit]

Incest isn't progression. What's progressive? This is backward ideologies. The world has a hit a downward moral slope. It's disgusting to say the least.

It is 'progressive' in the argument that you should not have legal mandates against activities done by consenting adults.

Now...That does not mean there are no limits. For example, if a suicidal man and a cannibal entered a pact where the cannibal kills and eats the suicidal man, do we allow that since both consented to the pact ?

When discussing philosophically and morally contentious issues, it is appropriate and even desirable to go to the extremes in terms of thought experiments, especially when the reality is that what we often calls 'extreme' for us, meaning modern day societies, have been at times practiced as normal by our ancestors.

Yesterday...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2089618?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Today...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gs-defied-law-plan-start-new-life-abroad.html

Put aside the legality and discuss the extreme in philosophical, moral, and historical perspectives. From that extreme can we find common grounds despite our differences and come to a moderated agreement that hopefully will result in a reasonable legal framework for the issue.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Don't be a racist.

Oh my bad but calling others as peddlers of incest including our Chinese friends is all okay, is it?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It is 'progressive' in the argument that you should not have legal mandates against activities done by consenting adults.

Now...That does not mean there are no limits. For example, if a suicidal man and a cannibal entered a pact where the cannibal kills and eats the suicidal man, do we allow that since both consented to the pact ?

When discussing philosophically and morally contentious issues, it is appropriate and even desirable to go to the extremes in terms of thought experiments, especially when the reality is that what we often calls 'extreme' for us, meaning modern day societies, have been at times practiced as normal by our ancestors.

Yesterday...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2089618?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Today...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gs-defied-law-plan-start-new-life-abroad.html

Put aside the legality and discuss the extreme in philosophical, moral, and historical perspectives. From that extreme can we find common grounds despite our differences and come to a moderated agreement that hopefully will result in a reasonable legal framework for the issue.

I don't understand any of what you said, it's kind of above my head but I ticked it anyway. Sounds real cool.