Professionals’ corner, personal experience series

[YeBeWarned]

200-300 gm for a medium size scope, not alot but when you have to keep it steady for extended periods even 300gm makes alot of difference.

hmm well gotta give it to soldiers who carry their weapons and other stuff and fight in high terrain .. apna tu 10 kg aatay ke thele se sans phool jata hai hahah

 

[jaibi]

Agreed, sir but the operational definition of this piece was a tad bit different.

A: The mind.

Actually, a well-trained educated mind. Physical weapons may be okay for self-defense, but their use for offense is utterly abhorrent, specially if one sees the consequences thereof.

Such a comment , of course, may not be popular on a forum such as this, but it needed to be said.

There's a certain way of holding it. A good instructor would teach you about it.

What about the blow back of gun ? i heard from people and even saw in videos that the push back can be hard on your shoulders, from the picture of me you can tell i am skin and bones with little to no mass hahah so do you think that someone like me will have hard time firing gun ? and how much a normal gun like AK weight ? 10 kg ka Aatay ka thela utha leta hun , lakin zaiya dair nai hahaha



Put a scope on this gun , it looks full commando style weapon

I'm not sure I follow, could you please clarify?

@jaibi

I've thought about the bold part of your post for a long time, and I don't see that as a disadvantage. The American solider's thinking is beyond that and they have a almost gaming complex to just kill. Their nationalism mixed with technological prowess is what's driving them through and through compared to Pak Army clinging to shahadat. Even in their beliefs they feel they will go to heaven regardless.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Agreed, sir but the operational definition of this piece was a tad bit different.
There's a certain way of holding it. A good instructor would teach you about it.

well in that case, i hope you are good teacher haha
Can i ask you more questions regarding guns ?
I've seen in videos when you fire, there is shell that fall through, and if i am not wrong its very hot right ? is there any chance that that shell might burn your hand or skin it touches ? is it a common thing or very rare that shell touches shooters skin .

 

[jaibi]

Yes that can happen the shell is very hot but I saw SSG guys catch shells but then again they're superhuman
Guns are designed so that the shells are ejected away from the user

well in that case, i hope you are good teacher haha
Can i ask you more questions regarding guns ?
I've seen in videos when you fire, there is shell that fall through, and if i am not wrong its very hot right ? is there any chance that that shell might burn your hand or skin it touches ? is it a common thing or very rare that shell touches shooters skin .

 

[YeBeWarned]

Yes that can happen the shell is very hot but I saw SSG guys catch shells but then again they're superhuman
Guns are designed so that the shells are ejected away from the user

Ary SSG wale kahan mila rahe hai, woh tu sher hai bhai sher

 

[Thorough Pro]

So, once while taking a break from shooting at a range in Karachi, studying my targets while sipping my juice, a middle-aged, medium height, medium built, well to do gentleman approached and asked if it was ok for him to take the stall to my left, after exchanging the pleasantries I asked him if he was a frequent visitor (in reality I was aking if he was an experienced shooter to ensure my safety), to which he replied that it was his first time and wanted to test his new gun, which he pulled out of its holster from under his shirt with a cross draw. I observed that there was no mag in the mag well. Though this was wrong on so many accounts but I give credit to him for not carrying a loaded weapon with which he didn't have any experience.

So trying to be polite and staying safe I decided to lengthen my break, staying well behind the shooting line sitting at his 5, and then when was the last time I ever saw one of my favourite full-sized Colt 1911 Stainless 45 ACP with wood grips?

I observed him pull out two mags from his other pocket, load them with three rounds each, put them on the flat in front, insert one in the mag well and then chambering the first round. With excitement, I waited for him to pull the trigger, I saw the flash, heard the big bang (in the excitement forgot to put on eyes and ears protection) as the bullet clearly missed the paper target at 15 feet followed by an FTF. He clears it, reloads and the second bullet misses the target and the second FTF, third shot, no FTF as that was the last round in the mag and bullet leaves a hole between 4 & 6.

He loads the second mag and more or less the same results with 4 FTF's in 6 shots with just one bullet hitting the paper, that too in the white. He steps back from the stall and sat beside me at the tea/coffee table looking disappointingly at the gun. I commented that it was a very nice looking weapon and enquired about where he bought it and for how much? He said the dealer convinced him that this was the most powerful and accurate gun in the market, but it failed to re-load every single time and was not accurate and that he is going to return it because there was something wrong with it.

I suggested that he hold the gun with both hands and try again, he did, with zero failures, somewhat happy he enquires what was that about? I told him that he was limp-wristing and explained why the gun failed to re-load and the reason he was consistently shooting at 5'O clock. I suggested that he get a smaller/lighter gun that fit his hands instead of the most power-full gun that he can't shoot accurately.

So then he opened up a bit and told me that he was a jeweller, and had been robbed a couple of time and that he intends to carry it with him. I said you are still alive because you didn't have a weapon like this during the unfortunate robberies, if you had pulled a gun that you couldn't shoot properly, they would have shot you instantly.

I suggested that he get a smaller/lighter weapon that he can easily deploy one-handedly from the confines of a vehicle and must learn the basics and practice at least 2000 shots from that gun before he starts carrying it.

Not sure what he did or did not do, I never saw him at the range again. The purpose of sharing the story is to lay bare the myth of "most power full" and "most accurate" gun in the market and going with the recommendation of the dealers/friends. Every individual has personal experience with a weapon, all guns (of the same caliber) fire the same round so the term "power-full in the context of an SD/HD scenario is misleading or even incorrect and a gun is only as accurate as the shooter.

Professionals’ corner, personal experience series:

What’s the best weapon? Jaibi
View attachment 646715
Introduction

As we have some top secret projects that we are working on to unravel them soon with partners in crime being @Joe Shearer and @PanzerKiel I had feedback from the poll that we just conducted. There were considerably high votes for professional’s personal experiences in the services. I’d like to take the start and then tag someone to share an incident that either is funny or made them grow.

Weapons training

Being a psychologist in the armed forces is a unique experience because most people don’t know what to make of you. Are you a doctor? Then why aren’t you at CMH? Are you from the Education branch then why aren’t you teaching? Are you from the fighting arms? Then why aren’t you in the field? What do you do?

It’s with this gaze that I came upon the firing range to my instructor a relatively young Subedar of the SSG who was the owner of this gaze. I was a city slicker and more importantly from the air force so he was even more curious as to why I was here but being a good NCO he did not ask.

His greetings were crisp and to the point and he invited us officers to have a refresher whereby he was showing us different weapons in the arsenal at our disposal. I was a keen learner because prior to the military I had had no experience with firearms but I wanted to learn this well because that is my perspective at any opportunity to learn.

After the introduction we were to fire and we all did. Not surprisingly, I was an average scorer on the first day but I talked my way to come again to practice tomorrow again.

As I returned I fared better this time but again not up to what I wanted.

The Subedar came to me and asked if I would like to stay for some more pointers because he saw that I was eager to learn.

The biggest question

Being Punjabi but away from Punjab I couldn’t resist the offer of having Gur-wali-chaye (tea with natural sugar) and so as we were sitting the Subedar asked me a question.

‘Sir, if you have a G-3, MP 5, an AK-47, a revolver, a knife, a Glock and an RPG and your position was under imminent attack which weapon would you choose and why?’

I sipped some tea and considered the options. ‘I think the best choice would be a G-3 or maybe the RPG or a machine gun if I have more range and I could know where I am at and what position is being attacked.’

‘It could be any position, sir ji and you’ve seconds to react before the enemy is upon you. Which would you choose and why?’

‘G-3,’ I said, confidently.

The Subedar scoured at the bag right next to him got out my targets with my name and G-3 written on it. Out of 10 bullets that I had fired I had hit 4 on the target, so it was a 40% accuracy. That had been one of my experiments to gauge my proficiency with the weapons.

‘You’ve a 40% chance of surviving then, sir,’ he said and sipped his tea. ‘I don’t like them. Do you?’

The deadliest weapon

‘Your results with the MP-5 are the best; why didn’t you chose that one, sir?’

‘It gets inaccurate with the range, I suppose.’ I answered being a little embarrassed.

The Subedar smiled, ‘Sir ji, please don’t listen to the critique of men who have not seen war. What if you had cannon with you? It could take out everyone but if you cannot use it then it’s as good as wings are to a fish!’

‘I see,’ I said with genuine interest. ‘I’ve been firing with the MP-5 in the air force a lot or maybe it’s because it’s an easier weapon to handle, that my scores are better there?’

‘No, sir, it’s because you’ve been practicing with it. The weapon that’s the deadliest in the field is the one you’ve the most experience with. It is the one which your hands don’t feel like they’re holding a gun. I would advise, sir, if you don’t mind; don’t try to master the weapon by your mind but by your body. Practice with them and you’d do just fine.’ He finished his tea.

I thanked him for this invaluable lesson and it really stuck with me throughout service.

Looks like a .22 or 5.56 Nato, more likely the later

yep .. Don't ask me about the gun, cause i have no idea I was just there for pose

 

[RescueRanger]

Professionals’ corner, personal experience series:

What’s the best weapon? Jaibi
View attachment 646715
Introduction

As we have some top secret projects that we are working on to unravel them soon with partners in crime being @Joe Shearer and @PanzerKiel I had feedback from the poll that we just conducted. There were considerably high votes for professional’s personal experiences in the services. I’d like to take the start and then tag someone to share an incident that either is funny or made them grow.

Weapons training

Being a psychologist in the armed forces is a unique experience because most people don’t know what to make of you. Are you a doctor? Then why aren’t you at CMH? Are you from the Education branch then why aren’t you teaching? Are you from the fighting arms? Then why aren’t you in the field? What do you do?

It’s with this gaze that I came upon the firing range to my instructor a relatively young Subedar of the SSG who was the owner of this gaze. I was a city slicker and more importantly from the air force so he was even more curious as to why I was here but being a good NCO he did not ask.

His greetings were crisp and to the point and he invited us officers to have a refresher whereby he was showing us different weapons in the arsenal at our disposal. I was a keen learner because prior to the military I had had no experience with firearms but I wanted to learn this well because that is my perspective at any opportunity to learn.

After the introduction we were to fire and we all did. Not surprisingly, I was an average scorer on the first day but I talked my way to come again to practice tomorrow again.

As I returned I fared better this time but again not up to what I wanted.

The Subedar came to me and asked if I would like to stay for some more pointers because he saw that I was eager to learn.

The biggest question

Being Punjabi but away from Punjab I couldn’t resist the offer of having Gur-wali-chaye (tea with natural sugar) and so as we were sitting the Subedar asked me a question.

‘Sir, if you have a G-3, MP 5, an AK-47, a revolver, a knife, a Glock and an RPG and your position was under imminent attack which weapon would you choose and why?’

I sipped some tea and considered the options. ‘I think the best choice would be a G-3 or maybe the RPG or a machine gun if I have more range and I could know where I am at and what position is being attacked.’

‘It could be any position, sir ji and you’ve seconds to react before the enemy is upon you. Which would you choose and why?’

‘G-3,’ I said, confidently.

The Subedar scoured at the bag right next to him got out my targets with my name and G-3 written on it. Out of 10 bullets that I had fired I had hit 4 on the target, so it was a 40% accuracy. That had been one of my experiments to gauge my proficiency with the weapons.

‘You’ve a 40% chance of surviving then, sir,’ he said and sipped his tea. ‘I don’t like them. Do you?’

The deadliest weapon

‘Your results with the MP-5 are the best; why didn’t you chose that one, sir?’

‘It gets inaccurate with the range, I suppose.’ I answered being a little embarrassed.

The Subedar smiled, ‘Sir ji, please don’t listen to the critique of men who have not seen war. What if you had cannon with you? It could take out everyone but if you cannot use it then it’s as good as wings are to a fish!’

‘I see,’ I said with genuine interest. ‘I’ve been firing with the MP-5 in the air force a lot or maybe it’s because it’s an easier weapon to handle, that my scores are better there?’

‘No, sir, it’s because you’ve been practicing with it. The weapon that’s the deadliest in the field is the one you’ve the most experience with. It is the one which your hands don’t feel like they’re holding a gun. I would advise, sir, if you don’t mind; don’t try to master the weapon by your mind but by your body. Practice with them and you’d do just fine.’ He finished his tea.

I thanked him for this invaluable lesson and it really stuck with me throughout service.

I like this thread, I like that Subedar even more. Nothing like the quip of a salty professional to put us youngsters in our place, been on the receiving end of the same so know the feeling. I remember an old SPG ASI once remarking "Ghustaki maaf sir, Ap theory main tez ho sir, or main practical main" .

I never took offence to this, because I know what he meant by that, I was a 20 something guy telling a 50 something man who had been there, done it, got the t-shirt and done it all over again how to do his job.

As my ustad once said, "chalano ko toap be chalti hain, magar asal kamal chalaney waley ka hota hai". Golden words.

 

[TNT]

I have a relative in army, he was invited at my place in northern areas along with his army friends. I have weapons and we went out to shoot. They were surprised when none of them (6 guys) could reach half my accuracy score. They kept asking where i trained n i said well right here.

 

[Metal 0-1]

The one you are best trained with. You have trust in that particular firearm. The one which you know your way around. I will personally go for an AR in 14.5 length barrel. Light weight, nice range. I know my around. Can easily run and gun.

It will be easy for me to peel back or to sides from the major fire concentration.

 

[VCheng]

Agreed, sir but the operational definition of this piece was a tad bit different.

I understand where you are coming from, but it is important to keep in mind the far greater value of peace in these inflamed times, hence my post. Thank you for indulging me on this.

 

[F86 Saber]

Having a sibling in the armed forces has it's advantages one of which is access to the shooting ranges.

One of the reasons soldiers do not like the MP5 is because of the double feed issue in addition to an uncomfortable grip.
First time i fired the G3 and the SMG, i hit 3 out of 3 each at the100m range, though between 8 and 10. It was embarassing though because my brother, an infantry guy, told me that they do grouping at the 100m range. It was fun though.

 

[jaibi]

The main qualm with the MP5 is that it's more suited with close quarters rather than long range. This is why you'd see it in greater use in PAF and PN because they have to defend bases rather than areas.

Firing ranges are fun

Having a sibling in the armed forces has it's advantages one of which is access to the shooting ranges.

One of the reasons soldiers do not like the MP5 is because of the double feed issue in addition to an uncomfortable grip.
First time i fired the G3 and the SMG, i hit 3 out of 3 each at the100m range, though between 8 and 10. It was embarassing though because my brother, an infantry guy, told me that they do grouping at the 100m range. It was fun though.

Often times it's more dependent on what your formation can provide rather than what you would like.

The one you are best trained with. You have trust in that particular firearm. The one which you know your way around. I will personally go for an AR in 14.5 length barrel. Light weight, nice range. I know my around. Can easily run and gun.

It will be easy for me to peel back or to sides from the major fire concentration.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Having a sibling in the armed forces has it's advantages one of which is access to the shooting ranges.

One of the reasons soldiers do not like the MP5 is because of the double feed issue in addition to an uncomfortable grip.
First time i fired the G3 and the SMG, i hit 3 out of 3 each at the100m range, though between 8 and 10. It was embarassing though because my brother, an infantry guy, told me that they do grouping at the 100m range. It was fun though.

Double feed of MP5 is only related to the ones made in Pakistan.....German made are fine enough having no such issue.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Having a sibling in the armed forces has it's advantages one of which is access to the shooting ranges.

One of the reasons soldiers do not like the MP5 is because of the double feed issue in addition to an uncomfortable grip.
First time i fired the G3 and the SMG, i hit 3 out of 3 each at the100m range, though between 8 and 10. It was embarassing though because my brother, an infantry guy, told me that they do grouping at the 100m range. It was fun though.

Don't say that, Everyone loves and want a MP-5 German one...

 

[SQ8]

Deciding between the purchase of a G45 vs G19x but when talking to the range instructor gave him my use case of home defense and not necessarily constant carry so was recommended a mossberg.
Because the spray of a shotgun may be better when you’re moving around in the dark trying to get situational awareness at 3am against an intruder while avoiding wall penetration against those who may be in other rooms.
The danger of it being needing to be extra cautious on making sure no unintended targets are in the area

Lesson being is know your use case before deciding on a tool.