Hamartia Antidote
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Well if people were "throwing bottles" you can be pretty sure they were plastic.
Pro/Anti-Erdoğan Demonstrators fight in DC
- Thread starter Thəorətic Muslim
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Well if people were "throwing bottles" you can be pretty sure they were plastic.
Thəorətic Muslim
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Plastic bottles are dangerous.
terranMarine
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only 9?
war&peace
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So it means media-claim of that it was a peaceful protest is, again, a total lie. BTW when people demonstrate in front of embassies, they do not and should not resort to such cheap and violent tactics.
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It was on Turkish TV, footage was taken from point of view by Turkish bodyguards. But, here is one. You can see clearly that the provocateurs were the Armenian-PKK group throwing missiles and injuring a Turkish counter protester.
In 15 second mark, there's a bold guy with a big mustache wearing a white shirt. He is encouraging the Armenian-PKK group to move in while the Turkish side is pushing and pulling to end the violence. 30 second mark you can see more projectiles being thrown.
Last edited:
Solomon2
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Erdogan Watched Guards Beat Protesters
May 18, 2017 8:56 PM
Turkish President Erdogan Watched Violent Clash Near Embassy
0:01:22
0:00:00/0:01:22
U.S. officials and lawmakers may have been outraged when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s bodyguards attacked and beat peaceful protesters in Washington as their leader watched. Back in Turkey, however, that hard-line approach is welcomed by many of the president’s nationalist supporters.
The clash Tuesday began when Erdogan’s motorcade pulled up in front of the Turkish ambassador’s residence, returning from a visit to the White House and a meeting with President Donald Trump.
Erdogan, emerging from his limousine, stood and watched as his guards and supporters began punching and kicking their way through a group of mostly Kurdish protesters across the street. Eleven people were injured.
Two senators protest
Two U.S. senators protested to Erdogan Thursday about his guards’ behavior.
“The violent response of your security detail to peaceful protesters is wholly unacceptable,” Senators Dianne Feinstein and John McCain said in a letter to Erdogan. They added that the incident was “unfortunately reflective of your government’s treatment of the press, ethnic minority groups and political opponents.”
U.S. Senators John McCain and Dianne Feinstein wrote a letter to the Turkish government, demanding it take responsibility for a clash involving protesters and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's guards near the Turkish Embassy in Washington on Tuesday.
While some Turks also decried the use of force to quash a peaceful protest, calling it a blemish on the country’s international reputation and a violation of free speech, those who support Erdogan’s increasingly authoritarian rule felt it was justified.
Protesters ‘deserved to be beaten’
“Those terrorists deserved to be beaten,” Atakan, a taxi driver from the city of Erzurum, told a VOA reporter. “They should not be protesting our president. They got what they asked for.”
Yusuf Kanli, a newspaper columnist and political analyst, said no matter how bad it may have looked, the scene played right into Erdogan’s image.
Watch: Anti-Erdogan Protesters Say They Were Attacked by President's Bodyguards
Anti-Erdogan Protesters Say They Were Attacked by President's Bodyguards
0:02:03
0:00:00/0:02:03▶
Direct link
“I believe Erdogan makes use of this type of brawl for internal politics, to solidify his electorate and to get more nationalists to move to his party,” Kanli said. “If you are an anti-Erdogan citizen in Turkey, you think like the civilized world and do not approve of beating people who think different from you. But if you are a pro-Erdogan citizen, you applaud when people who don’t think like you do get beaten up.”
Erdogan has bolstered his power base, particularly since a coup attempt last year. He has cracked down hard on dissent, jailing journalists and the leaders and other legislators of the PKK, a Kurdish party that was the second-largest opposition group in Parliament, on allegations of terrorism.
Growing political divide
The result has been a growing political divide in the country, as shown by results of a referendum last month in which voters narrowly approved even more sweeping powers for Erdogan.
“People who support Erdogan approve a show of force,” Orkan, an engineer from Istanbul, told VOA. “So at the end, the sharp polarization within the country deepens more.”
A similar clash between Erdogan’s men and protesters broke out a year ago when he visited Washington for a nuclear conference.
“Turkish people who support Erdogan’s AK Party see this sort of incident as legitimate,” said Ilhan Tanir, a freelance Turkish journalist and analyst. “Pro-government newspapers and columnists are proof of that. They say they had to teach the PKK terrorists a necessary lesson.
“Erdogan’s bodyguards remind me of Moammar Gadhafi’s bodyguards,” Tanir said. “They liked to get into fights, too. But with Erdogan’s guards, violence has almost become a habit.”
Solomon2
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US-Turkish ties hit rough patch after rough Erdogan visit
In this May 16, 2017, photo, President Donald Trump welcomes Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the White House in Washington. The Trump administration faced growing calls Thursday for a forceful response to violence by Turkish presidential guards on American soil, who were briefly detained this week but then set free. The unseemly incident added to U.S.-Turkish tensions that are being compounded by a growing spat over U.S. war strategy against the Islamic State group in Syria. (Pablo Martinez Monsivais, File/Associated Press)
By Josh Lederman and Richard Lardner | AP May 19 at 9:18 AM
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is facing growing calls for a forceful response to violence on American soil by Turkish presidential guards who were briefly detained this week but then set free. The unseemly incident is adding to U.S.-Turkish tensions compounded by a spat over U.S. war strategy against the Islamic State group in Syria.
The United States said Thursday it had summoned Turkey’s ambassador to the State Department, where the No. 2-ranked U.S. diplomat raised concerns about the security detail for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s visit to Washington, after the guards were recorded on video violently breaking up a protest. Erdogan even witnessed the melee.
U.S. lawmakers demanded stronger action. Republican Sen. John McCain said the government should “throw their ambassador the hell out” of the U.S.
The calls came as the Trump administration acknowledged it had released two members of Erdogan’s detail after holding them briefly after the incident, which took place Tuesday outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence in the U.S. capital. Even as officials vowed there would be an investigation, the guards were already safely back in Turkey with Erdogan, dampening any prospects for holding them accountable.
Local police and lawmakers initially speculated that diplomatic immunity prevented the U.S. from holding the men. A U.S. official said Thursday that wasn’t the case. Instead, Erdogan’s guards were released under a globally recognized custom under which nations don’t arrest or detain visiting heads of state and members of their delegations, said the official, who wasn’t authorized to comment publicly on the matter and requested anonymity.
The guards’ release left the U.S. struggling to point to anything that amounts to accountability. It also fueled the perception that the U.S. allows Turkey’s leader to bring strongman tactics with him when he visits the U.S. capital. Last year, Turkish security officials manhandled several journalists at a Washington think tank where Erdogan was set to speak.
“There must be consequences,” Rep. Steny Hoyer, the No. 2 Democrat in the House, said Thursday.
The State Department called the latest incident “deeply disturbing,” insisting there would be a “thorough investigation that will allow us to hold the responsible individuals accountable is of the upmost importance to us.”
The fracas erupted as Erdogan arrived at the ambassador’s residence following a meeting with President Donald Trump. Videos show people pushing past police to confront a small group of protesters across the street.
Attacking with their fists and feet, men in dark suits and others are seen repeatedly kicking one woman as she lay curled on a sidewalk. Another person wrenches a woman’s neck and throws her to the ground. A man with a bullhorn is repeatedly kicked in the face. In all, nine people were hurt.
“This isn’t Turkey. This isn’t a third-world country,” McCain said on MSNBC.
Another video shared on social media Thursday shows Erdogan watching the melee unfold from the backseat of his vehicle. He later exits the vehicle and peers toward the chaos.
Turkey’s embassy blamed the violence on demonstrators, saying they aggressively provoked Turkish-American citizens gathered to see Erdogan. The embassy alleged, without evidence, that the demonstrators were associated with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which has waged a three-decade-long insurgency against Turkey and is considered a terrorist group by the United States.
The violent capstone to Erdogan’s visit spoke to the sky-high tensions between the U.S. and Turkey, NATO allies that have increasingly sparred over U.S. strategy toward defeating IS militants in Syria.
To Turkey’s dismay, President Donald Trump has decided to arm and partner Syrian Kurdish militants in the impending fight to retake the key city of Raqqa. Washington considers the Syrian Kurds an effective force against IS. Turkey sees them as a PKK extension and an existential threat to Turkish sovereignty.
In its protest against the decision, Turkey’s foreign minister on Thursday demanded that Trump dismiss his envoy in charge of the anti-IS coalition, Brett McGurk.
And Erdogan, speaking in Istanbul two days after meeting Trump, put Washington on notice that his forces won’t hesitate to attack U.S.-backed Kurds if they threaten Turkey.
“We are already telling you in advance: Our rules of engagement give us this authority,” Erdogan said. “We will take such a step and we won’t discuss it or consult with anyone.”
The Trump administration rushed to McGurk’s defense.
State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said McGurk has “the full support and backing” of Trump and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.
Still, Nauert sought to acknowledge Turkey’s misgivings about terrorism by the PKK and other groups.
“We respect those concerns, and continue regular consultations with our NATO ally on this and other topics of mutual importance,” Nauert said.
___
Associated Press writers Zeynep Bilginsoy in Istanbul and Jessica Gresko in Washington contributed to this report.
Was Erdogan personally involved in his bodyguards’ attacks on protesters in D.C.?
By Philip Bump May 19 at 10:00 AM
After he met with President Trump this week, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan traveled to Embassy Row in Northwest Washington, where Turkey’s ambassador has a home. At some point while Erdogan was there, a group of people across the street at Sheridan Circle began to loudly protest.
The red marker indicates the ambassador’s home. The green marker is the location of the protesters.
That protest ended violently, with pro- and anti-Erdogan sides exchanging blows. Voice of America caught the beginning of the fight.
Play Video 1:46
Several people injured after protest outside Turkish ambassador’s residence
Police fought to separate two groups that violently clashed outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence on May 16 in Washington, D.C. (VOA Turkish/Twitter)
That footage quickly demonstrated that the physical altercation originated with several men in suits who were at the front edge of the pro-Erdogan crowd on the south side of the circle. In a news conference Wednesday, D.C. police stated that some of those involved were members of Erdogan’s security detail — which the Turkish state news agency Anadolu confirmed. “Police did not heed Turkish demands to intervene,” Anadolu said, as The Post has reported, so the guards moved in to “disperse them.”
The police didn’t “heed” those demands to break up a peaceful protest, of course, because those protests were legal, protected under the First Amendment.
On Thursday afternoon, a new wrinkle: It turns out that Erdogan himself observed the brawl from the driveway of the ambassador’s residence.
Play Video 2:18
Video appears to show Erdogan observing scuffle between guards and protesters
A video released by Voice of America appears to show Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan observing an attack on protesters outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence in Washington on May 16. (VOATurkish)
If you watch that video closely, though, you’ll notice something else. Right before the brawling starts, a man appears to receive instruction from Erdogan, who then signals to another man who walks down the driveway to the street — and the brawling begins seconds later.
The timeline
Timestamp 0:01: A man leans into the car to speak with Erdogan (large circle). We know it’s Erdogan in the rear passenger side because he later emerges from that point. A man with a mustache (small circle) stands nearby.
0:14: After talking with Erdogan, the man next to the door speaks with the man with a mustache.
0:16: The man with a mustache heads down toward the street.
0:22: The protesters, who had been chanting “Baby-killer Erdogan,” suddenly go quiet.
0:28: The cameraman catches the scuffle through the trees.
1:13: Erdogan emerges from the car, at right. The man with the mustache comes back up the driveway as he does so.
1:16: Erdogan and the man with the mustache speak.
1:29: Erdogan walks away from the car. Note the heavyset man in the background.
If you go back to the first footage of the brawl, you can see that heavyset man participating in the fight. Here he is, at the 25-second mark.
The close-up video of the scuffle begins at about the 21-second mark of the Erdogan video, which we can tell by comparing stills from the two.
In other words, the timelines match: Five seconds after the man with the mustache heads down the sidewalk, a man in a suit runs across the street and attacks the protesters, which Turkish state news admits was the genesis of the brawl.
We reached out to the VOA and the Armenian National Committee of America (which also had footage) to see if there were other angles showing the south side of the street shortly before the brawl began. VOA had no additional footage to share; we haven’t heard back from ANCA.
[How the U.S. can hold Erdogan’s brawling guards accountable — and keep it from happening again]
That Turkish security forces violated the First Amendment rights of American protesters is, of course, a significant breach of international diplomacy, one that has received no small amount of attention over the past few days. If they did so at the direct encouragement of Erdogan, that raises the stakes significantly.
We have reached out to the Turkish embassy for comment.
If you have any additional footage of the brawl, please email.
In this May 16, 2017, photo, President Donald Trump welcomes Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the White House in Washington. The Trump administration faced growing calls Thursday for a forceful response to violence by Turkish presidential guards on American soil, who were briefly detained this week but then set free. The unseemly incident added to U.S.-Turkish tensions that are being compounded by a growing spat over U.S. war strategy against the Islamic State group in Syria. (Pablo Martinez Monsivais, File/Associated Press)
By Josh Lederman and Richard Lardner | AP May 19 at 9:18 AM
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is facing growing calls for a forceful response to violence on American soil by Turkish presidential guards who were briefly detained this week but then set free. The unseemly incident is adding to U.S.-Turkish tensions compounded by a spat over U.S. war strategy against the Islamic State group in Syria.
The United States said Thursday it had summoned Turkey’s ambassador to the State Department, where the No. 2-ranked U.S. diplomat raised concerns about the security detail for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s visit to Washington, after the guards were recorded on video violently breaking up a protest. Erdogan even witnessed the melee.
U.S. lawmakers demanded stronger action. Republican Sen. John McCain said the government should “throw their ambassador the hell out” of the U.S.
The calls came as the Trump administration acknowledged it had released two members of Erdogan’s detail after holding them briefly after the incident, which took place Tuesday outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence in the U.S. capital. Even as officials vowed there would be an investigation, the guards were already safely back in Turkey with Erdogan, dampening any prospects for holding them accountable.
Local police and lawmakers initially speculated that diplomatic immunity prevented the U.S. from holding the men. A U.S. official said Thursday that wasn’t the case. Instead, Erdogan’s guards were released under a globally recognized custom under which nations don’t arrest or detain visiting heads of state and members of their delegations, said the official, who wasn’t authorized to comment publicly on the matter and requested anonymity.
The guards’ release left the U.S. struggling to point to anything that amounts to accountability. It also fueled the perception that the U.S. allows Turkey’s leader to bring strongman tactics with him when he visits the U.S. capital. Last year, Turkish security officials manhandled several journalists at a Washington think tank where Erdogan was set to speak.
“There must be consequences,” Rep. Steny Hoyer, the No. 2 Democrat in the House, said Thursday.
The State Department called the latest incident “deeply disturbing,” insisting there would be a “thorough investigation that will allow us to hold the responsible individuals accountable is of the upmost importance to us.”
The fracas erupted as Erdogan arrived at the ambassador’s residence following a meeting with President Donald Trump. Videos show people pushing past police to confront a small group of protesters across the street.
Attacking with their fists and feet, men in dark suits and others are seen repeatedly kicking one woman as she lay curled on a sidewalk. Another person wrenches a woman’s neck and throws her to the ground. A man with a bullhorn is repeatedly kicked in the face. In all, nine people were hurt.
“This isn’t Turkey. This isn’t a third-world country,” McCain said on MSNBC.
Another video shared on social media Thursday shows Erdogan watching the melee unfold from the backseat of his vehicle. He later exits the vehicle and peers toward the chaos.
Turkey’s embassy blamed the violence on demonstrators, saying they aggressively provoked Turkish-American citizens gathered to see Erdogan. The embassy alleged, without evidence, that the demonstrators were associated with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which has waged a three-decade-long insurgency against Turkey and is considered a terrorist group by the United States.
The violent capstone to Erdogan’s visit spoke to the sky-high tensions between the U.S. and Turkey, NATO allies that have increasingly sparred over U.S. strategy toward defeating IS militants in Syria.
To Turkey’s dismay, President Donald Trump has decided to arm and partner Syrian Kurdish militants in the impending fight to retake the key city of Raqqa. Washington considers the Syrian Kurds an effective force against IS. Turkey sees them as a PKK extension and an existential threat to Turkish sovereignty.
In its protest against the decision, Turkey’s foreign minister on Thursday demanded that Trump dismiss his envoy in charge of the anti-IS coalition, Brett McGurk.
And Erdogan, speaking in Istanbul two days after meeting Trump, put Washington on notice that his forces won’t hesitate to attack U.S.-backed Kurds if they threaten Turkey.
“We are already telling you in advance: Our rules of engagement give us this authority,” Erdogan said. “We will take such a step and we won’t discuss it or consult with anyone.”
The Trump administration rushed to McGurk’s defense.
State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said McGurk has “the full support and backing” of Trump and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.
Still, Nauert sought to acknowledge Turkey’s misgivings about terrorism by the PKK and other groups.
“We respect those concerns, and continue regular consultations with our NATO ally on this and other topics of mutual importance,” Nauert said.
___
Associated Press writers Zeynep Bilginsoy in Istanbul and Jessica Gresko in Washington contributed to this report.
Was Erdogan personally involved in his bodyguards’ attacks on protesters in D.C.?
By Philip Bump May 19 at 10:00 AM
After he met with President Trump this week, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan traveled to Embassy Row in Northwest Washington, where Turkey’s ambassador has a home. At some point while Erdogan was there, a group of people across the street at Sheridan Circle began to loudly protest.
The red marker indicates the ambassador’s home. The green marker is the location of the protesters.
That protest ended violently, with pro- and anti-Erdogan sides exchanging blows. Voice of America caught the beginning of the fight.
Play Video 1:46
Several people injured after protest outside Turkish ambassador’s residence
Police fought to separate two groups that violently clashed outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence on May 16 in Washington, D.C. (VOA Turkish/Twitter)
That footage quickly demonstrated that the physical altercation originated with several men in suits who were at the front edge of the pro-Erdogan crowd on the south side of the circle. In a news conference Wednesday, D.C. police stated that some of those involved were members of Erdogan’s security detail — which the Turkish state news agency Anadolu confirmed. “Police did not heed Turkish demands to intervene,” Anadolu said, as The Post has reported, so the guards moved in to “disperse them.”
The police didn’t “heed” those demands to break up a peaceful protest, of course, because those protests were legal, protected under the First Amendment.
On Thursday afternoon, a new wrinkle: It turns out that Erdogan himself observed the brawl from the driveway of the ambassador’s residence.
Play Video 2:18
Video appears to show Erdogan observing scuffle between guards and protesters
A video released by Voice of America appears to show Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan observing an attack on protesters outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence in Washington on May 16. (VOATurkish)
If you watch that video closely, though, you’ll notice something else. Right before the brawling starts, a man appears to receive instruction from Erdogan, who then signals to another man who walks down the driveway to the street — and the brawling begins seconds later.
The timeline
Timestamp 0:01: A man leans into the car to speak with Erdogan (large circle). We know it’s Erdogan in the rear passenger side because he later emerges from that point. A man with a mustache (small circle) stands nearby.
0:14: After talking with Erdogan, the man next to the door speaks with the man with a mustache.
0:16: The man with a mustache heads down toward the street.
0:22: The protesters, who had been chanting “Baby-killer Erdogan,” suddenly go quiet.
0:28: The cameraman catches the scuffle through the trees.
1:13: Erdogan emerges from the car, at right. The man with the mustache comes back up the driveway as he does so.
1:16: Erdogan and the man with the mustache speak.
1:29: Erdogan walks away from the car. Note the heavyset man in the background.
If you go back to the first footage of the brawl, you can see that heavyset man participating in the fight. Here he is, at the 25-second mark.
The close-up video of the scuffle begins at about the 21-second mark of the Erdogan video, which we can tell by comparing stills from the two.
In other words, the timelines match: Five seconds after the man with the mustache heads down the sidewalk, a man in a suit runs across the street and attacks the protesters, which Turkish state news admits was the genesis of the brawl.
We reached out to the VOA and the Armenian National Committee of America (which also had footage) to see if there were other angles showing the south side of the street shortly before the brawl began. VOA had no additional footage to share; we haven’t heard back from ANCA.
[How the U.S. can hold Erdogan’s brawling guards accountable — and keep it from happening again]
That Turkish security forces violated the First Amendment rights of American protesters is, of course, a significant breach of international diplomacy, one that has received no small amount of attention over the past few days. If they did so at the direct encouragement of Erdogan, that raises the stakes significantly.
We have reached out to the Turkish embassy for comment.
If you have any additional footage of the brawl, please email.
Abingdonboy
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Unbelivable, it isn't the job of a personal security detail to break up protests when on foreign soil, that is the job of the local security. These men behaved like absolute thugs, where was were profesionalism? It says a lot about the state of Turkey right now that they feel emboldened enough to act in such a manner in front of their President, seemingly on his orders.
terranMarine
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Astonished to see a Turkish bodyguard initiating the brawl when his duty on a state visit is to provide security not instigating a fight.
It's the same last year, the guards making things worse.
Man why not let the American cops handle the protesters instead. I bet they have diplomatic immunity, what if they actually killed a protester i wonder if US would even arrest,detain,prosecute and throw the killer in a US jail.
It's the same last year, the guards making things worse.
Man why not let the American cops handle the protesters instead. I bet they have diplomatic immunity, what if they actually killed a protester i wonder if US would even arrest,detain,prosecute and throw the killer in a US jail.
Solomon2
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@T-123456 @tesla @Sinan
Don't be surprised if soon there's an anti-Erdogan demonstration consisting entirely of local Washingtonians, not connected to Armenians or Kurds in any fashion, to protest this outrage. I hope it will be much larger than the fourteen people who were beat up here by a "security" contingent at least twice as large. And if I join them and get beat up in the process, well, I will have had the honor of taking punches in the cause of standing up for decent behavior and further exposing the extent of "Baby-killer" Erdogan's thuggery. And maybe bring the day all Turks can be freed from Erdogan's chains that much closer.
Don't be surprised if soon there's an anti-Erdogan demonstration consisting entirely of local Washingtonians, not connected to Armenians or Kurds in any fashion, to protest this outrage. I hope it will be much larger than the fourteen people who were beat up here by a "security" contingent at least twice as large. And if I join them and get beat up in the process, well, I will have had the honor of taking punches in the cause of standing up for decent behavior and further exposing the extent of "Baby-killer" Erdogan's thuggery. And maybe bring the day all Turks can be freed from Erdogan's chains that much closer.
Deliorman
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You and those like you only help Erdogan to further strengthen his positions. Even Turks who are against him (in this forum and in general) are happy when a bunch of Armenians and PKK rats get beaten up for fun. Some Turks might hate Erdogan, and others might love him, yet they all together hate the Armenians/PKK so good luck with you helping Turkey and Turks by protesting against him. Your help is not wanted nor needed so better stay at home and don't bother getting in trouble.
Solomon2
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Which is precisely why I don't want Armenians or Kurds there; indeed, I might very well leave if I see one of their flags.
Solomon2
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They came here...on diplomatic passports...and beat women...while they lay unconscious. (3:00 in Combat-Master's video).It was so much fun to see PKK terrorists thrashed.
That's the kind of "fun" you're celebrating. Wouldn't you like to see "Baby-killer Erdogan" & company visit London or Islamabad next?
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