Private production line for LCA manufacturing: Hindustan Aeronautics

[Avaraniya]

Since when did Project Management include predicting somebodies Death

All the time.

That is why we have shadow resources and documentation and process in place.

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

Bro, dont go by what HAL says in public. For them its a pure turf war.

If and if MOD approves a 300 jet order with 160 for L&T and 140 for HAL, you will see that surely with some mutual number finally acceptable to HAL and L&T.

But as of now HAL will never say that bcz the execution of first 100 odd jets order itself is a big challenge for them. In fact the ecosystem supporting LCA project has done a fabulous job over last 8-9 months, You will hear it from DM MP himself soon. Indian MIC and MSMEs have actually delivered things in a good time bound manner and has invested enough to increase the productivity as per the planned schedule. Thats why there is a growing resentment reaching MOD's ears and eyes.

The present orders even though L&T is roped in , we all know repeat orders will be there but L&T wont get in without assurance. Thats basic for any company.. and HAL cant share from existing orders bcz its their basic needs..MOD cant order more unless some are delivered and good words spread post DACT and IAF pilots approval..

So you understand the dilemma..all are interconnected.. but in media all will say with smiling face only

To sum up , unless the order for Mk 1a goes up no Pvt sector CO will be willing to invest .HAL , on its own can't deliver more than 8-10 planes per annum (p.a) which brings IAF into the picture .IAF isn't satisfied with the Mk1a .Beyond the recommended changes vide a compromise refreed by DM Parrikar between IAF , HAL & ADA , nothing much can be done with the Mk1a.

Hence the current order would be terminated at 100 .So, It'd have to be a brand new plane - Mk - 2 , which would fulfill most of if not all of IAF's wish list .but the Mk 2 is being developed by the ADA / IN / HAL trio.To which the IAF can't seem to commit to & which in any case won't come before 2023-25 timelines with FOC - if all things falling in place & that's a very big if.

Remind me if I'm missing something in this merry go round.

 

[GuardianRED]

Boeing is an Integrator. HAL IS NOT an integrator, its a soviet model PSU manufacturer. First get a grasp on that.

So far there is no evidence of the IAF lining up to buy the LCA either. In fact, if any of the Air Chiefs past comments are anything to go by, Any and All private parties should steer clear of this project.


I am not interested in debating a Logical fallacy that draws upon a false equivalence between Su-30MKi and the LCA. Its a Strawman at best.

I just gave u an example of TAML , they are a private Co. sub contractor to HAL. HAL haven't had a hand in designing the LCA, Most of the components are either designed and built by DRDO and other labs and private Co. very few is done in house by HAL....and there is all be integrated and assemble?? - HAL. Like @PARIKRAMA mentioned already a good supply chain is in place.

As well there is no evidence of the IAF rejecting it either! really Air chief comments, didn't one who took a joy ride commented its an excellent aircraft

 

[Avaraniya]

As well there is no evidence of the IAF rejecting it either! really Air chief comments, didn't one who took a joy ride commented it excellent aircraft

Not very inspiring words for anyone looking to put in hundred Million $ of his hard earned money.

In fact they must be outright crazy to do it.

 

[GuardianRED]

Not very inspiring words for anyone looking to put in hundred Million $ of his hard earned money.

In fact they must be outright crazy to do it.

Yes it outright crazy to be self reliant in defence, absolute horrible notion.

 

[Avaraniya]

Yes it outright crazy to be self reliant in defence, absolute horrible notion.

Not at all. To be self reliant in defence is a brilliant idea.

Its just Stupid and Crazy to expect people and corporations to pay from their pocket to satisfy your fantasy.

 

[GuardianRED]

Not at all. To be self reliant in defence is a brilliant idea.

Its just Stupid and Crazy to expect people and corporations to pay from their pocket to satisfy your fantasy.

LOL... one hand many are saying HAL is bad and want private to be more involved. and when are they are trying to be involved YOU are saying it is crazy !!!

 

[Avaraniya]

LOL... one hand many are saying HAL is bad and want private to be more involved. and when are they are trying to be involved YOU are saying it is crazy !!!

That is only because you have poor comprehension skills.

I am saying that they would have to be crazy to get involved under the current circumstances with no promise of orders.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

 

[GuardianRED]

That is only because you have poor comprehension skills.

I am saying that they would have to be crazy to get involved under the current circumstances with no promise of orders.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

I find you lack of faith disturbing. Keep off the Coffee , BP rising!

Good Day!

 

[Avaraniya]

I find you lack of faith disturbing. Keep off the Coffee , BP rising!

Good Day!

I have absolute Faith in the corporate sector. So do almost everybody at the stock exchange. These guys regularly put the money where their mouth is.

What I do not have, is faith in career bureaucrats and Air chiefs who d not have to risk anything, but their loud mouth.

But most of all I have faith in common sense, coffee or no coffee. Now stop pretending to be my doctor after pretending to be my nutritionist.

 

[R!CK]

Its not HAL which creates the demand, its the IAF.

Have anybody body heard of the concept of Demand and Supply ?

If there really was such a Huge demand for LCA, a thousand industries would have lined up to produce it and supply it. HAL is no different.

Unlike Automobiles, which has a million customers, Fighter jets have ONLY ONE CUSTOMER.

And if the ONLY Customer is not too keen on the aircraft, NO is going to invest money and produce it. Not unless the whole thing is guaranteed by the MoD and GoI.



Probably because the MOD is not stupid.

HAL management has to worry about its survival first. And for that ANY production plan has to first make BUSINESS SENSE.



Give an order to produce a 1000 LCA and you will find HAL Eager and all Happy to do it.

I'm assuming you are supporting HAL, maybe I'm wrong.

But I would like to point out that assured orders have never proved to help HAL produce anything faster. You just need to go through HAL order book to get the answer.

HAL had won assured orders of 100s of units of several types over decades and everythng was/is being delivered late. Eg. SU30 MKI, ALH, ULH, LCH and list goes on.

I know the work attitude in HAL and trust me it's nothing to be proud of. The monopoly in Indian Defence Industry helped make it a big white elephant. While things are changing, it will take considerable time to improve things to a very productive manner.

You want assured order of 1000 units to produce LCA on time? Let me make it clear, in defence aviation 100 is a big number. You just need to go through the history of military aircraft projects to understand that. LCA will see production run of more units than Grippen in future.

The truth is, your demand and supply comparison is relevant except that it's the other way round. There is definitely a demand, but our supply was awfully slow all this while which did help the already corrupt babus to justify foreign purchases.

Now a relevant question for you, what is your understanding about the demand/supply model for ALH Dhruv? Do you think HAL supplies enough of them with respect to the demand for it? If you find the right answer to my question, this whole post of mine will need no further explanation to you.

P.S: Not a HAL hater, just a concerned patriot.

Good Day!

 

[Avaraniya]

I'm assuming you are supporting HAL, maybe I'm wrong.

But I would like to point out that assured orders have never proved to help HAL produce anything faster. You just need to go through HAL order book to get the answer.

HAL had won assured orders of 100s of units of several types over decades and everythng was/is being delivered late. Eg. SU30 MKI, ALH, ULH, LCH and list goes on.

I know the work attitude in HAL and trust me it's nothing to be proud of. The monopoly in Indian Defence Industry helped make it a big white elephant. While things are changing, it will take considerable time to improve things to a very productive manner.

You want assured order of 1000 units to produce LCA on time? Let me make it clear, in defence aviation 100 is a big number. You just need to go through the history of military aircraft projects to understand that. LCA will see production run of more units than Grippen in future.

The truth is, your demand and supply comparison is relevant except that it's the other way round. There is definitely a demand, but our supply was awfully slow all this while which did help the already corrupt babus to justify foreign purchases.

Now a relevant question for you, what is your understanding about the demand/supply model for ALH Dhruv? Do you think HAL supplies enough of them with respect to the demand for it? If you find the right answer to my question, this whole post of mine will need no further explanation to you.

P.S: Not a HAL hater, just a concerned patriot.

Good Day!

I support the Truth. You are free to assume anything, that is not my concern.

Your rant against HAL is irrelevant to the point. Neither is your love or hate for HAL.

Any and all future planing can ONLY be done on the basis of firm order or Irrevocable promise of orders. This is a fundamental truth about any business.

Your reverse theory that 'demand flows from supply' might be true for women cosmetics, but is not true for Fighter Jets. Its laughable that you should even say this.

HAL supplies Dhruv to a captive customer. HAL can/will increase the supply of Dhruv provided the IAF and IA or the MoD assures HAL of guaranteed work AFTER they finish the total order. Will they ?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

These jokers at HAL ......

Curse of impotency on them. India can't bear another generation of fat *** lazy idiots.

 

[R!CK]

I support the Truth. You are free to assume anything, that is no my concern.

Your rant against HAL is irrelevant to the point. Neither is your love or hate for HAL.

Any and all future planing can ONLY be done on the basis of firm order or Irrevocable promise of orders. This is a fundamental truth about any business.

Your reverse theory that 'demand flows from supply' might be true for women cosmetics, but is not true for Fighter Jets. Its laughable that you should even say this.

HAL supplies Dhruv to a captive customer. HAL can/will increase the supply of Dhruv provided the IAF and IA or the MoD assures HAL of guaranteed work AFTER they finish the total order. Will they ?

Apologies for attempting to educate a self centered troll. I'd recommend a wall to you, where the opinions of professionals from respective field wont bother your thick skull.

And as per you, HAL did a great job failing to deliver an assured order of Su-30 MKI on time and adding 3-4 years to what was already a very generous timeline. If you haven't even seen inside the production unit of HAL, might aswell ignore your stubborn posts from now.

Good Day to you and hope life helps you find more insight!

 

[Avaraniya]

Apologies for attempting to educate a self centered troll. I'd recommend a wall to you, where the opinions of professionals from respective field wont bother your thick skull.

And as per you, HAL did a great job failing to deliver an assured order of Su-30 MKI on time and adding 3-4 years to what was already a very generous timeline. If you haven't even seen inside the production unit of HAL, might aswell ignore your stubborn posts from now.

Good Day to you and hope life helps you find more insight!

I am not interested in your trash talk.

I am not interested in demolishing your Su-30 Strawman.

Since you have nothing of value to say, good by to you too.