Pre-islamic persian/scythian art : part 2

[jammersat]

hi i created this thread cause i couldn't find part 1


hope you enjoy

mostly sassanian period i assume

 

[libertycall]

The Persians and the Scythians are two different people. Do you know the name of the Scythian ruling tribe?

 

[jammersat]

Parthian (scythian)

The Persians and the Scythians are two different people. Do you know the name of the Scythian ruling tribe?

the scythians descended from the east of the caspian sea into iran on two occasions , before the achamenid persians (that's why i grouped them together , cause the persians are said to have learned arhcery and horseback riding from the scythians)

and again with the demise of alexander's realm the scythians poured into iran again , and formed the parthian kingdom ,

western sources say the scythians were a confederation of tribes , but if you ask me the word scythian is greek or latin for Saka , so the tribe of Saka must have ruled in those times

 

[libertycall]

Parthian (scythian)

the scythians descended from the east of the caspian sea into iran on two occasions , before the achamenid persians (that's why i grouped them together , cause the persians are said to have learned arhcery and horseback riding from the scythians)

and again with the demise of alexander's realm the scythians poured into iran again , and formed the parthian kingdom ,

western sources say the scythians were a confederation of tribes , but if you ask me the word scythian is greek or latin for Saka , so the tribe of Saka must have ruled in those times

You are quite correct that the Scythians and Sakas are the same people. The Parthians are also a branch of the same people, and the founder of their empire was 'Ashka' from Bactria.

But that isn't what I asked. Do you know the name of the ruling tribe among the Sakas?

 

[jammersat]

scythian art

@libertycall

this shows a persian nobelty , maybe a king , to the left , fighting a scythian to the left

 

[jammersat]

achamenid era

You are quite correct that the Scythians and Sakas are the same people. The Parthians are also a branch of the same people, and the founder of their empire was 'Ashka' from Bactria.

But that isn't what I asked. Do you know the name of the ruling tribe among the Sakas?

No i don't know what the ruling tribe among the Sakas were , i only know the parthians decended from a 'Parni' tribe or what they also call 'Dahe' ?

Can you tell me please , i'm pretty eager to find out

 

[libertycall]

achamenid era

No i don't know what the ruling tribe among the Sakas were , i only know the parthians decended from a 'Parni' tribe or what they also call 'Dahe' ?

Can you tell me please , i'm pretty eager to find out

The Assyrians stated that the ruling tribe of the Sakas were the 'Ashkazai'. The 'zai' meaning 'group' or tribe.

The Dahe by the way due both to the coincidence in names and location have been identified with the Dahae and the modern 'Dilaazaak'--the word 'zaak' means 'nation' or 'people'. The word 'Dahae' in Old Persian is 'Dah-yu'.

I'm not sure of the link between the Dahae and the Parni but there is a group of people in the Dilazaak areas called the 'Para' people.

 

[jammersat]

the other reason i grouped them together was that i , personally was more interested in scythian art than the ones grouped as "persian" , one has to study the roots

impression of sassanian era immortal , called a differnet name by then

minature of a scythian man

The Assyrians stated that the ruling tribe of the Sakas were the 'Ashkazai'. The 'zai' meaning 'group' or tribe.

The Dahe by the way due both to the coincidence in names and location have been identified with the Dahae and the modern 'Dilaazaak'--the word 'zaak' means 'nation' or 'people'. The word 'Dahae' in Old Persian is 'Dah-yu'.

I'm not sure of the link between the Dahae and the Parni but there is a group of people in the Dilazaak areas called the 'Para' people.

could be , the parthian kings as you probably already know titled themselves with the word "Ashk" , the first ashk , arashk , the second ashk and so forth , i don't know the connection here maybe you can teach me ..

so are those areas in northern pakistan? i mean my source on the Dahe and Parni is the wikipedia

i even heard the word "ashk" in a turkish pop song , which i'm sure doesn't have the meaning it has in farsi

 

[libertycall]

the other reason i grouped them together was that i , personally was more interested in scythian art than the ones grouped as "persian" , one has to study the roots

impression of sassanian era immortal , called a differnet name by then

could be , the parthian kings as you probably already know titled themselves with the word "Ashk" , the first ashk , arashk , the second ashk and so forth , i don't know the connection here maybe you can teach me ..

so are those areas in northern pakistan? i mean my source on the Dahe and Parni is the wikipedia

Yes, interesting that you've come to the same conclusion. It seemed rather too much of a coincidence that Assyrian name for the Saka ruling tribe should reappear 500 years later as the name of the individual who took up arms against the Greek occupation in Bactria. I suppose it's like the 'Caesar' thing and thousands of years later people were being called 'Czar' based on the actions of one man.

Yes, the Dahe were first linked with the Dilazak by some British historians, you should be able to find the books on Archive. We know that the Dilazak were Buddhists until the Yousufzais invaded the area. And we also know that the Parthian kings were patrons of Buddhism.

Well there's a difference between 'Ashik' and 'Askha'. The latter is oddly enough still quite a common name in parts of western Pakistan, although it's now typically 'Askha Khan'.

 

[jammersat]

Parthian kings were patrons of Buddhism.

.

That's interesting to me too , cause i remember i read somewhere either on wiki or some other site that Buddha himself was an ethnic scythian , you can't tell that to the indians here they will protest , but i remember reading that back in 2005 or 2006 i guess it was that Buddha was scythian , it was perhaps different manifestations of his religion in the different parts of the world as you know yourself his statue in Bamian in afghanistan doesn't resemble oriental statues of him ...

 

[HinduRashtra]

That's interesting to me too , cause i remember i read somewhere either on wiki or some other site that Buddha himself was an ethnic scythian , you can't tell that to the indians here they will protest , but i remember reading that back in 2005 or 2006 i guess it was that Buddha was scythian , it was perhaps different manifestations of his religion in the different parts of the world as you know yourself his statue in Bamian in afghanistan doesn't resemble oriental statues of him ...

Buddha belong to kshatriya military elite, and back then not too mixed with local indigenous South Asian people.. Sakas were also very Indo-Aryan warrior tribes.. so maybe there is some truth in it..

 

[Aepsilons]

Such a beautiful and glorious history. please @jammersat , continue to share !

 

[libertycall]

That's interesting to me too , cause i remember i read somewhere either on wiki or some other site that Buddha himself was an ethnic scythian , you can't tell that to the indians here they will protest , but i remember reading that back in 2005 or 2006 i guess it was that Buddha was scythian , it was perhaps different manifestations of his religion in the different parts of the world as you know yourself his statue in Bamian in afghanistan doesn't resemble oriental statues of him ...

The main groups that we keep coming across are the Sakas and the Yuezhi. Even the Kushans of India claimed to be descended from the Yuezhi, as did the Tokharians, and the Hepthali/Epthali

Well the rulers of Tibet at one time were the Yuezhi and we know that the Yuezhi were also related to the Scythians. Gautama Buddha was Nepalese and Nepal is on the borders of Tibet, so it may be that elements of Buddhism traveled north into Tibet and were then taken north and west via the Tokharians to the Yuezhi and then eastwards via the Yuezhi to China, and also westwards into Afghanistan and Central Asia. Sometimes Buddhism was carried into other parts of Asia by missionaries and in other cases by warriors:

The murder was followed by a decades-long, bloody religious war. "There is no doubt," says Baumann, "that Buddhism also came into Tibet carrying the sword, and that it erased the indigenous culture in much the same way that the communists later wiped out the Buddhists."

Tibet's Lost City: Atlantis in the Himalayas - SPIEGEL ONLINE

It's always puzzled me that despite the fact Pashto is an Indo-European language, some of the terms used for familial relations are not Indo-European but are Chinese.

The problem is that for too long we've accepted the traditional West European model of Asian history, that essentially we were ignorant of each other until the Europeans brought us knowledge of other parts of Asia.

 

[Takaavar]

Scythian art is very rich.

BTW, Scythian and Saka are different peoples. The word Scythian is from skuda, related to archery.

 

[Pangu]

Thanks for sharing, always wondered about pre-Islam Persia.

BTW, anyone here know if ancient Persia has any ancient military treatise, like Sunzi's Art of War?