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Poverty in Asia - Let me finish that debat once and for all

In a spiritual sense, poverty is the manifestation of the imperfection in this life. We all strive for perfection in life, but there is only so much we, finite and imperfect beings, can accomplish. Poverty is a phenomena , has been and will always be, for us who live in this vale of tears.

I think those who're having trouble putting two square meals on the table for themselves and their loved ones would probably find themselves much more concerned with the definition of poverty in normal parlance as opposed to its philosophical renditions ! o_O
 
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If perfection is to be found in simplicity, then why would you say plenty retired Japanese emigrate to countries so they can live like kings because the way of life in Japan is getting expensive that plenty people needed a 2nd job? :D

Because life in some countries that are not as developed as Japan is perfect for them. Tho lets say Philippines is not as advanced as Japan or have the social services programs, the country is warm, people are kind, food is good, cost of living is very gracious.

Pension adios who receive anywhere between 100k to 200k yen a month will live very comfortable retirement in say Thailand, philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam.
 
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I think those who're having trouble putting two square meals on the table for themselves and their loved ones would probably find themselves much more concerned with the definition of poverty in normal parlance as opposed to its philosophical renditions ! o_O


Absolutely, my friend. This is why I refer to this life as the vale of tears. We are all fleeting, be we poor, rich, wise or fools. All dusts in the speck of time. When men of certain means put down others with little than they, it serves no point as we all are mere dust to Providence.

There is imperfection in this world. Perfection belongs in the here after.
 
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Absolutely, my friend. This is why I refer to this life as the vale of tears. We are all fleeting, be we poor, rich, wise or fools. All dusts in the speck of time. When men of certain means put down others with little than they, it serves no point as we all are mere dust to Providence.

There is imperfection in this world. Perfection belongs in the here after.

Are you calling Armstrong the Magnificent a speck of dust ? :mad:

True; as our Prophet (PBUH) said : Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveler along a path. In the evening do not expect [to live until] the morning, and in the morning do not expect [to live until] the evening. Take [advantage of] your health before times of sickness, and [take advantage of] your life before your death.
 
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Because life in some countries that are not as developed as Japan is perfect for them. Tho lets say Philippines is not as advanced as Japan or have the social services programs, the country is warm, people are kind, food is good, cost of living is very gracious.

Pension adios who receive anywhere between 100k to 200k yen a month will live very comfortable retirement in say Thailand, philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam.

They can still decide to continue life in Japan leading a simple lifestyle if they choose to be frugal, yet they rather live a comfortable lifestyle in lesser developed countries. That means perfection isn't always being simplistic
 
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True; as our Prophet (PBUH) said : Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveler along a path. In the evening do not expect [to live until] the morning, and in the morning do not expect [to live until] the evening. Take [advantage of] your health before times of sickness, and [take advantage of] your life before your death.

Amen / Amin.
 
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In Europe they are cooperating with the staunchest of enemies and improving the lives of the people. In Asia we are quarreling and snickering at the miseries of the other.
No wonder we are where we are.
 
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In Europe they are cooperating with the staunchest of enemies and improving the lives of the people. In Asia we are quarreling and snickering at the miseries of the other.
No wonder we are where we are.

Very true. And as a collective entity, we should rise above communal, tribal lines.
 
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Asians in general are hard working and business minded people who believe in improving their own lives. Except for emotive issues, they will generally shy away from being political.
What is really shameful here is that poverty is being made an issue to laugh at. I am really happy for the Chinese people for what they have achieved, and if anything they should understand how that was done and the sacrifices made for it.
Indian poverty is in decline, but there is a long way to go.
 
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I have seen so many poverty debates lately on forum. There are a lot of ideas flying around but we need some concrete definitions as well in terms of what poverty is and situation of Asian Nations in terms of poverty.

First of all we need to define what poor is.

By definition poor means "the group that has less resources then others". Meaning this term is relative. So unless a nation does not distribute the wealth in an absolute egalitarian manner then there will be poor people in that nation. This is the philosophical approach. However there are some concrete norms on what poverty is in terms of today's resources.

Absolute Poverty means being in a condition that can't meet the following requirements.

  • Food: Body Mass Index must be above 16.
  • Safe drinking water: Water must not come solely from rivers and ponds, and must be available nearby (less than 15 minutes' walk each way).
  • Sanitation facilities: Toilets or latrines must be accessible in or near the home.
  • Health: Treatment must be received for serious illnesses and pregnancy.
  • Shelter: Homes must have fewer than four people living in each room. Floors must not be made of dirt, mud, or clay.
  • Education: One must attend school or otherwise learn to read.
  • Information: One must have access to newspapers, radios, televisions, computers, or telephones at home.
  • Access to services: One should have access to complete panoply of education, health, legal, social, and financial (credit) services.

If someone can't meet requirements, this means that person is absolutely poor. So some international constitutions thried to define the monetary treshold that if a person makes less money then that treshold that means that person won't be able to meet the specifications to avoid the absolute poverty.

The old definition was made by UN. "If a person can not have an income of 1$ (nominal) /day than that person can't meet the specifications explained above which means that person is absolutely poor."

Then there is revised definition by the World Bank = 1.25$ (PPP) /day. World Bank measures the poverty treshold in terms of Purchasing Pover Parity because that actually gives how much resource you can access.

UN also came with an upper bound 2$(PPP)/day of income. 2$(PPP)/day treshold is something like a poverty upper bound meaning that "if a person is making more then 2$(PPP)/day then this person is most probably not in a situation of absolute poverty".

First of all I wanna give you the 2$(PPP)/day data for some countries I select that were subject to discussion in here. The data is obtained from the World Bank;

Czech Republic (2011) : 0.1% of the population makes less then 2$(PPP)/day
Turkey (2011) : 2.6% of the population
Brazil (2011) : 8.2% of the population
China (2011) : 18.6% of the population
Vietnam (2010) : 16.8% of the population
India (2011) : 60.6% of the population

Secondly I wanna give you the 1.25$(PPP)/day data for the same countries above. The data is obtained from the World Bank;

Czech Republic (2011) : 0.0% of the population makes less then 1.25$(PPP)/day
Turkey (2011) : 0.1% of the population
Brazil (2012) : 3.8% of the population
China (2011) : 6.3% of the population
Vietnam (2012) : 2.4% of the population
India (2011) : 24.7% of the population

What does both statistics mean? Let me explain. 24.7% of people in India are definitely living in absolute poverty situation. (100 - 60.6) 39.4% of people living in India are definitely not living in absolute poverty. And the rest (35.9%) is living in the treshold of absolute poverty (neither can absolutely avoid the absolute poverty or does fall into absolute poverty.)

@Bong Thank you for your correction. I've updated the figures. For 2$(PPP)/day I've used the headcount version (which is the right one by definition as you've mentioned), and for 1.25$(PPP)/day I've used the poverty gap data accidentaly. Right now everything should seem fine.

China, Vietnam, India etc. countries are still doing their best to beat that tresholds. There are still millions living in those countries in those conditions that's why they are using the internationally defined tresholds.

On the other hand if we consider Czech Republic a very tiny fraction of the population lives in the condition of absolute poverty. That's why countries like Czech Republic, Japan etc. does not use the definition of absolute poverty for their poverty treshold and they use the term "Relative Poverty" instead and define their more relaxed poverty definitions and measure that statistic only for more Humanitarian Development purposes.

And this is the most important. There are some Chinese members who are making fun of poor people in India. Altough I admire the development of China, such people are ruining the countries' image. Every Indian living in absolute poverty is responsibility of all of us. We are people, we coexist and cooperate.

Edit 2 : People from every nationality is mocking with poverty. I'm not targeting any ethnicity. Some banned troll also stated some fake data about poverty in China. China -as state policy- doing many projects in Africa and South East Asia to improve people's livelihoods. So I've targeted only a few names here not everyone. @Steakhouse @terranMarine

Good post and good read! You gave me the first and only good impression about Turkish ever since I joined this forum. For Chinese members, I can say that most of us are reactionary towards bias and bash from troll minded posters from various countries. :-)
 
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Asians in general are hard working and business minded people who believe in improving their own lives. Except for emotive issues, they will generally shy away from being political.
What is really shameful here is that poverty is being made an issue to laugh at. I am really happy for the Chinese people for what they have achieved, and if anything they should understand how that was done and the sacrifices made for it.
Indian poverty is in decline, but there is a long way to go.
true one someones laughing at u the other ur laughing at some one else thats how the world works unfortunately
 
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true one someones laughing at u the other ur laughing at some one else thats how the world works unfortunately
So the world works when two persons fallen in a gutter keep laughing at each other instead of figuring a way out? There are other ways my friend, broaden your thoughts.
 
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So the world works when two persons fallen in a gutter keep laughing at each other instead of figuring a way out? There are other ways my friend, broaden your thoughts.
i was referring to the chinese yesterday people were laughing at them now they are laughing at others see world works
 
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So in conclusion who is poorer Chinese or Indians :)
 
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