Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[GumNaam]

Yeah, but I am of the school of thought that says everything is speculation until and unless proven in the real world. Maybe the US has 'proven it' somehow (the performance of their systems against the Houthi rebels seems to indicate their general lack of preparedness), but they aren't giving that technology to us. So there will be a lot of unknowns when all of this gets practiced in an actual battlefield scenario using real systems.

okay so it has to be proven in real war. fair enough. well the s400 (nor the s300) has been proven in real war either.

 

[danger007]

To Indian members : kindly ignore this troll.. he doesn't have Idea about Sam let alone S 400.. he wants to counter SAM'S with air assets itself ... this is like prey going to kill hunter by showing its back( fish) .. there is no limit to his idiotic claims ..

 

[CriticalThought]

It is unlikely S 400 batteries will even waste a single missile against the likes of unmanned drones.

Job of bringing down subsonic unmanned drone will be taken over by IAF aircrafts and Ack - Ack guns.

Imagine this. From the moment the S-400 is turned on near the border, our signals intelligence guys will be looking at the patterns of EM waves it sends. Once we understand that, a drone needs to actively send back the type of radiation that will make it think a JF-17 is attacking. Do remember China already has these systems, so rest assured one way or the other we will have this knowledge.

okay so it has to be proven in real war. fair enough. well the s400 (nor the s300) has been proven in real war either.

Agreed. Hence the need to study it and understand its real world capabilities better, to separate the truth from the hype.

 

[GumNaam]

To Indian members : kindly ignore this troll.. he doesn't have Idea about Sam let alone S 400.. he wants to counter SAM'S with air assets itself ... this is like prey going to kill hunter by showing its back( fish) .. there is no limit to his idiotic claims ..

The only problem here is that the vegetarian prey is erroneously starting to think that it is somehow a predator.

 

[Photon]

that's what you don't understand. Regardless of what you have, only a handful of counter measures are more than enough for neutralizing your assets. At close to border, the S400 is more of a liability than an asset.


oh trust me, our counter measures against the S400 and the rest of your air defences, be they missiles or drones, won't be subsonic.

Lol..

Dil Ko Behlane Ke Liye Ghalib Ye Khayal Achha Hai,
par Humko maaloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat kya hai.

 

[danger007]

The only problem here is that the vegetarian prey is erroneously starting to think that it is somehow a predator.

Grow up.. if you think you can print drones just like that and launch them in hundreds at a time, you must be joking.. how you gonna control them when if you launch them in hundreds ? And you think only Pakistan can field drones? That too against SAM network.. if pak can afford 100 you can multifold that number from our side.. what's your claim - if USA drone cost 7million then pak made them for million $ due to cheap labour.. is that a joke or what ..

 

[Walling Naga]

Even WWII flak guns has altitude ceiling of more than 8Kms (8.8 cm), with some like 120mm M1 having altitude cieling of 18 Kms.

Radar guided AAG Won't have a problem shooting down those drones I believe.

 

[GumNaam]

Lol..

Dil Ko Behlane Ke Liye Ghalib Ye Khayal Achha Hai,
par Humko maaloom hai jannat ki haqeeqat kya hai.

And I was expecting an educated response.

 

[CriticalThought]

Grow up.. if you think you can print drones just like that and launch them in hundreds at a time, you must be joking.. how you gonna control them when if you launch them in hundreds ? And you think only Pakistan can field drones? That too against SAM network.. if pak can afford 100 you can multifold that number from our side.. what's your claim - if USA drone cost 7million then pak made them for million $ due to cheap labour.. is that a joke or what ..

Google 'Drone swarm'. Apologies I am not allowed to post links, but I found a site in the first few links that shows one person controlling 50 drones. I didn't look deeply into it btw so you may still find it isn't feasible.

 

[GumNaam]

Grow up.. if you think you can print drones just like that and launch them in hundreds at a time, you must be joking.. how you gonna control them when if you launch them in hundreds ? And you think only Pakistan can field drones? That too against SAM network.. if pak can afford 100 you can multifold that number from our side.. what's your claim - if USA drone cost 7million then pak made them for million $ due to cheap labour.. is that a joke or what ..

You some how think that making fast but simple drones with a warhead is somehow expensive and rocket science. No its not. It's old school tech from the 90s and dirt cheap. What's wrong with you?

Radar guided AAG Won't have a problem shooting down those drones I believe.

Negative. The problem with radar guided guns is that the munition is still not guided and more likely to miss than hit albeit better odds than nonradar guided guns.

 

[danger007]

You some how think that making fast but simple drones with a warhead is somehow expensive and rocket science. No its not. It's old school tech from the 90s and dirt cheap. What's wrong with you?


Negative. The problem with radar guided guns is that the munition is still not guided and more likely to miss than hit albeit better odds than nonradar guided guns.

Are you referring to drones which is available in Amazon or eBay, oh then nice strategy keep it up..

 

[GumNaam]

Grow up.. if you think you can print drones just like that and launch them in hundreds at a time, you must be joking.. how you gonna control them when if you launch them in hundreds ? And you think only Pakistan can field drones? That too against SAM network.. if pak can afford 100 you can multifold that number from our side.. what's your claim - if USA drone cost 7million then pak made them for million $ due to cheap labour.. is that a joke or what ..

u.s. drones are not cheap because they made them for reuse. I'm talking about disposable drones.

Are you referring to drones which is available in Amazon or eBay, oh then nice strategy keep it up..

No I'm talking about drones that will chew the s400 up and spit it out. Until it's shot down itself. I'm obviously dealing with rugrat in diapers here.

 

[Photon]

Imagine this. From the moment the S-400 is turned on near the border, our signals intelligence guys will be looking at the patterns of EM waves it sends. Once we understand that, a drone needs to actively send back the type of radiation that will make it think a JF-17 is attacking. Do remember China already has these systems, so rest assured one way or the other we will have this knowledge.



Agreed. Hence the need to study it and understand its real world capabilities better, to separate the truth from the hype.

That is not how a radar identifies its target,.

Radar just tracks the targets, the picture of target gets stored in the target library is either identified manually, or based on past memory.

Most common way of identifying an aircraft is by it is engine blades , their numbers, their positioning.

Engine blades are like finger prints of an aircraft.

No two aircraft engines are exactly alike.

 

[GumNaam]

That is not how a radar identifies its target,.

Radar just tracks the targets, the picture of target gets stored in the target library is either identified manually, or based on past memory.

Most common way of identifying an aircraft is by it is engine blades , their numbers, their positioning.

Engine blades are like finger print of an aircraft.

No two aircraft engines are exactly the same.

Your answer still doesn't his question.

 

[Chanakyaa]

your radar is fixed in one place and getting is position is easy through it's own radiation. It is not mobile when in use so the Babar would be the perfect weapon to take out the radars IF it is deep inside india. The closer it is to the border, the cheaper the weapon we can use to take it out. The deeper you pull it back into indian territory, the harder it becomes to take out and thus, more expensive platforms like the Babur or Raad would have to be used. But then again, if you go 400 or more km inside the border then it's no worry to us anyway.

Yeah, but I am of the school of thought that says everything is speculation until and unless proven in the real world. Maybe the US has 'proven it' somehow (the performance of their systems against the Houthi rebels seems to indicate their general lack of preparedness), but they aren't giving that technology to us. So there will be a lot of unknowns when all of this gets practiced in an actual battlefield scenario using real systems.

1. India doesnt have S400 ALONE. India has ATLEAST 6 Different SAMs. Which Includes Worlds best Names like :

- SPYDER
- BARAK 8

ALong with

- Akash ( Deployed in HUGE HUGE Numbers )

2. All the Weapons in Pakistani Arsenal ( Apart from Ballistic Missiles ) are Sub Sonic. Which Means, They can be taken our VERY VERY Eaisily even with Fighter Jets ! The Key here is Detection. India has LRTRs with Ranges of 500 KM ( Deployed ) to 1200 KM ( Under Development ).

3. The Drone Theory ... Well... FIRST BUILD THEM and Then For Such Stuff Radar Guided Anti Aircraft Guns / CIWS are the Best weapons ...

Plz DOnt Claim that After Drones....Next would be Apples and Oranges thrown in Thousands.. to Confuse Indian SAM Radars !