Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[Secret Service]

i know man, i too have many authentic sources of information and we are in making of such drones. but i was talking about there use.

Well, the kinda drones that I'm talking about are legally suicide drones, i.e. they go on a one way trip. Therfore they will have to be very cheap but deadly. Now if we can make really expensive drones then making these cheap suicide drones will not be a problem.

Here's a reliable news source although it doesn't talk about Pakistani MALE drone. But since the military is mum on the issue, it could be anything.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/is-pakistan-secretly-testing-a-new-chinese-killer-drone/

why someone will shoot down a cheap drone with practically less useage and which donot put any danger to enemy.

 

[GumNaam]

What exactly you are trying to say? S 400 is additional to our sam network..

What I'm trying to say is that it is really possible to overwhelm whatever systems you have in place including the S400. I don't see what's so hard to comprehend here.

why someone will shoot down a cheap drone with practically less useage and which donot put any danger to enemy.

Well they will have to if the drone is armed with a warhead or missile. Cuz of they don't and any number of those drones make it to the radars of the S400, then the system just became useless. Just the fact that the drone is armed (either with missiles or a warhead) means that that the enemy is in fact in clear danger.

 

[danger007]

The solution is extremely simple. You see, Pakistan would already know where are these missile batteries stationed. Even though these are mobile SAM systems, they aren't exactly the shoot and scoot types. It takes time to wrap things up, disconnect the power generators and etc and move. Until everything is wrapped up, the entire battery is staying put. And THAT is the S400's (or the S300's for that matter) Achille's heal. Pakistan already possess armed drone technology and they possess a pretty long range, long enough to penetrate deep inside india. These drones are far cheaper than even a single S400 missile and thus can be produced (and launched) in overwhelming numbers. Bear in mind that the cost of an american reaper drone is around $6.6 million. Pakistan being far cheaper in labor and other cost factors easily produces similar armed drones for less that $1 million. So producing them in overwhelming numbers is a nonissue. Do you see what I'm getting at? We will use this technology to basically produce CANON FODDERS! When a war breaks out and india deploys the S400s, they will instantly be faced with a catch 22 situation. Do they waste their expensive S400s on these cheap but deadly drones that are heading their way? Or do they save the S400s for the real threat of SSM missiles? Either way, they will be destroyed. Because if they waste the S400s on the drones then battery will be effectively helpless against the Pakistan's SSMs and the PAF strikes. And if they don't shoot at the drones then naturally the drones themselves will destroy the S400 batteries. Basically a "damn if you do and damn if you don't" kinda situation.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

@waz now problem solved kindly close the thread .. may be PAF should recruit him for special strategy.. sending 100 drones to take out S 400 .. meanwhile our jets n other sam network wait till those drone attack ... these guys thinking drone can strike deep inside indian territory.. but not vice versa..

 

[GumNaam]

@waz now problem solved kindly close the thread .. may be PAF should recruit him for special strategy.. sending 100 drones to take out S 400 .. meanwhile our jets n other sam network wait till those drone attack ... these guys thinking drone can strike deep inside indian territory.. but not vice versa..

Well vice versa is a situation that will always be there so that's a different discussion altogether. But if you don't have anything substantial to say then at least man up and admit instead of being a typical butthurt indian cry baby and running whining to the mods.

 

[danger007]

What I'm tryin-400to say is that it is really possible to overwhelm whatever systems you have in place including the S400. I don't see what's so hard to comprehend here.


Well they will have to if the drone is armed with a warhead or missile. Cuz of they don't and any number of those drones make it to the radars of the S400, then the system just became useless. Just the fact that the drone is armed (either with missiles or a warhead) means that that the enemy is in fact in clear danger.

Absolutely we will shut down all these defence network.. S-400 is dumb.. so you can take them out in pdf just like that... I would be pleased if you are in Air force ..

 

[Secret Service]

What I'm trying to say is that it is really possible to overwhelm whatever systems you have in place including the S400. I don't see what's so hard to comprehend here.


Well they will have to if the drone is armed with a warhead or missile. Cuz of they don't and any number of those drones make it to the radars of the S400, then the system just became useless. Just the fact that the drone is armed (either with missiles or a warhead) means that that the enemy is in fact in clear danger.

i am not getting it man. no offense but it look like some video game strategy which is practically not possible and foolish as well.

 

[iby32]

We will send some pigeons to do shit bombing on s400 sites and then modi will cry

Only way to deal with this problem is attack on location of s400 battries with cruise misslies

 

[SirofEnglish]

These are the type of deal which Russia needed from India at a time when its under stiff sanctions from west n US, this will reduce the coldness in relations which was there since past 2 yrs because India's continued contracts of defense items to Israel for anti tank missiles, France for Rafale n Possible more scorpene orders and with US for chinook, Apache. No west country or US will ever offer such a critical advanced game changer system to us apart from Russia

Russian Arms and India is depending on ........other then us Arms ....incredible .....Russians are trying to Line up with Pakistan ...........so what ever they sell to not friend Country NOW .......

 

[GumNaam]

Absolutely we will shut down all these defence network.. S-400 is dumb.. so you can take them out in pdf just like that... I would be pleased if you are in Air force ..

actually, we would want you to keep your air defence network up and running.

 

[SirofEnglish]

Well as a friend of Pakistan russia will sell us ........right to earn basses ....and rest to Pakistan .....as blow us up..........foolish kind of fight ......or Pakistan have better making power they will invent something against it .......

 

[danger007]

actually, we would want you to keep your air defence network up and running.

You are gonna take out S-400 with drones m.m then US should adopt your strategy not Pakistan.

 

[SirofEnglish]

Every time russia shows us eyes ..........why ....they bug every system .......and earning money is their right ......next time India shall buy direct from Pakistan ........... and start calling ISI failed ...

 

[GumNaam]

i am not getting it man. no offense but it look like some video game strategy which is practically not possible and foolish as well.

well some video game strategies are based on real world examples But joking aside, this is actually NOT based on some video game strategy or some movie. It actually has been used in WWII. The entire concept is based on Russia's world war 2 strategy against the germans when they got bogged down during the harsh Russian winter really. Even though they were bogged down, they were still well armed but just not going anywhere due to winter. What the Russians did was flood the german lines with soviet conscripts as cannon fodders to absorb the nazi german fire. Yes it was a turkey shoot for the germans with dead soviet conscript bodies every where but in a matter of hours, what the germans thought was their victory soon turned into their defeat when they realized that they were now either low on ammo or completely out with soviet armor headed their way on the horizon followed by the true soviet army. Now, having said that, just replace the well dug in german soldiers with indian air defences. replace the soviet conscripted cannon fodders with armed drones, replace hours with minutes and replace the soviet armor with SSMs and PAF. Get the picture?

Now I know there can be other more effective solutions. All that I am saying that this overhelming strategy too is an effective solution. It's a solution that Pakistan can deploy like NOW! Until a more advanced solution is in place, this can effectively send shivers up the indian spines (as you can tell from dangar007's reaction).

You are gonna take out S-400 with drones m.m then US should adopt your strategy not Pakistan.

View attachment 343811 View attachment 343811

ratheon has already developed a similar but more advanced strategy where they use air launched drones to have the S400s start tracking them The drones are armed forcing the radards to track them. When they start tracking the drones then they launch anti-radiation missiles against the source of the radiation, i.e. S400. So yeah, they've already implemented a more advanced version of the solution that I am proposing.

You are gonna take out S-400 with drones m.m then US should adopt your strategy not Pakistan.

View attachment 343811 View attachment 343811

fyi, your own picture answered your question. Here's the break down: So each system supports up to 12 launchers with 4 missiles each, right? So that's 4 x 12 = 48 SAM missiles. Correct? Let's make it more interesting. Suppose this entire S400 battery is 200 KM away from the border. On top of that, in between the border and the S400 battery, suppose that there are 2 AA gun regiments and 2 short range SAM regiments with 50 SAM missiles each. That is 100 short range SAMs with 48 S400 missiles and any number of AA gun rounds. Given the ineffective performance of AA guns during the iraq war by the iraqi military, I won't bother to take them into account (let's face it, they are a last ditch effort when all else has failed). So effectively, you have a defence of 150 SAM missiles which include 100 short range SAMs and 48 S400 missiles. Pakistan just has to launch 151 armed drones. THAT'S IT! In that case, WORST CASE scenario is that 1 armed drone is BOUND to make it to the S400 launch site and destroy it. It literally has to just take our the radar sites which will render the entire S400 battery useless. And as I said, that is the WORST case scenario. Practically, a far more than 1 would make it through the indian defences, that is guaranteed.

Is this an expense solution? YES. Can there be better solutions. OF COURSE. But it will make indian loses of the S400 far more expensive. The loss of our drones may run into millions of dollars but the loss of S400 batteries will run into billions of dollars for the indians. So all that I am saying is that this IS a solution that can be deployed until a better and more cost effective one is developed. Not rocket science people!

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Trump Bhakts :
India is buying S-400 missiles from Russia for $5 Billion. This money will inturn be used by Russia against USA for fighting cyber war to disrupt election in USA. Every USA citizen should start boycotting companies product which are developed/Imported from India.
India will use our money to buy defense equipment from Russia or buy Oil from Iran (again enemy of USA). This way, our money will be used against USA.
I request every US Company to stop giving business to India, Request every American to stop buying products from Indian.
Let's Make America great again

 

[jha]

well some video game strategies are based on real world examples But joking aside, this is actually NOT based on some video game strategy or some movie. It actually has been used in WWII. The entire concept is based on Russia's world war 2 strategy against the germans when they got bogged down during the harsh Russian winter really. Even though they were bogged down, they were still well armed but just not going anywhere due to winter. What the Russians did was flood the german lines with soviet conscripts as cannon fodders to absorb the nazi german fire. Yes it was a turkey shoot for the germans with dead soviet conscript bodies every where but in a matter of hours, what the germans thought was their victory soon turned into their defeat when they realized that they were now either low on ammo or completely out with soviet armor headed their way on the horizon followed by the true soviet army. Now, having said that, just replace the well dug in german soldiers with indian air defences. replace the soviet conscripted cannon fodders with armed drones, replace hours with minutes and replace the soviet armor with SSMs and PAF. Get the picture?

Now I know there can be other more effective solutions. All that I am saying that this overhelming strategy too is an effective solution. It's a solution that Pakistan can deploy like NOW! Until a more advanced solution is in place, this can effectively send shivers up the indian spines (as you can tell from dangar007's reaction).


ratheon has already developed a similar but more advanced strategy where they use air launched drones to have the S400s start tracking them The drones are armed forcing the radards to track them. When they start tracking the drones then they launch anti-radiation missiles against the source of the radiation, i.e. S400. So yeah, they've already implemented a more advanced version of the solution that I am proposing.


fyi, your own picture answered your question. Here's the break down: So each system supports up to 12 launchers with 4 missiles each, right? So that's 4 x 12 = 48 SAM missiles. Correct? Let's make it more interesting. Suppose this entire S400 battery is 200 KM away from the border. On top of that, in between the border and the S400 battery, suppose that there are 2 AA gun regiments and 2 short range SAM regiments with 50 SAM missiles each. That is 100 short range SAMs with 48 S400 missiles and any number of AA gun rounds. Given the ineffective performance of AA guns during the iraq war by the iraqi military, I won't bother to take them into account (let's face it, they are a last ditch effort when all else has failed). So effectively, you have a defence of 150 SAM missiles which include 100 short range SAMs and 48 S400 missiles. Pakistan just has to launch 151 armed drones. THAT'S IT! In that case, WORST CASE scenario is that 1 armed drone is BOUND to make it to the S400 launch site and destroy it. It literally has to just take our the radar sites which will render the entire S400 battery useless. And as I said, that is the WORST case scenario. Practically, a far more than 1 would make it through the indian defences, that is guaranteed.

Is this an expense solution? YES. Can there be better solutions. OF COURSE. But it will make indian loses of the S400 far more expensive. The loss of our drones may run into millions of dollars but the loss of S400 batteries will run into billions of dollars for the indians. So all that I am saying is that this IS a solution that can be deployed until a better and more cost effective one is developed. Not rocket science people!

There is a concept called " Layered Air defense". Look it up.

Also, strategic SAM systems usually have their own Air defenses. Our S-300 batteries are accompanied with Pantsyrs imo. S-400 system inevitably would have their own Pantsyrs.

Launching 151 cheap drone to take out a billion dollar SAM system, was a good one though. Still laughing.