Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[newindiandefence]

First logical talk on this all nonsense

 

[Immortan.Joe]

Pakistan should look things like that and drones like Harpy and stealthy UCAVS which can launch ARMs against FCRs of any air defense system deployed by India.

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/mald/

For this technique to have a chance of succeeding, you would need good quality UCAVs like Haropy threatening S-400s.

You current Chinese kabbad is not overwhelming anything, even if it flies by thousands as it could be shot down even by museum piece AA guns.

 

[SBD-3]

India is buying 5 systems in 5-6 Billion. China bought the 6 systems last year in 3 Billion?

The forthcoming deal, estimated to be worth around 400 billion rupees ($6 billion at the current exchange rate), also covers the purchase of about 6,000 missiles, a mobile launcher and a radar station, according to the publication.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201512171031883722-india-purchase-s400-deal/

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has signed a deal with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday (15 October) to acquire an advanced air defence system from Moscow that is worth over $5bn (£4.1bn).
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/india-russia-sign-5bn-s-400-triumph-defence-missile-deal-1586541

China became the first export customer of the S-400 last year when it signed a USD 3 bn deal for six systems.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...defence-system-from-russia/article9224126.ece

 

[GumNaam]

The solution is extremely simple. You see, Pakistan would already know where are these missile batteries stationed. Even though these are mobile SAM systems, they aren't exactly the shoot and scoot types. It takes time to wrap things up, disconnect the power generators and etc and move. Until everything is wrapped up, the entire battery is staying put. And THAT is the S400's (or the S300's for that matter) Achille's heal. Pakistan already possess armed drone technology and they possess a pretty long range, long enough to penetrate deep inside india. These drones are far cheaper than even a single S400 missile and thus can be produced (and launched) in overwhelming numbers. Bear in mind that the cost of an american reaper drone is around $6.6 million. Pakistan being far cheaper in labor and other cost factors easily produces similar armed drones for less that $1 million. So producing them in overwhelming numbers is a nonissue. Do you see what I'm getting at? We will use this technology to basically produce CANON FODDERS! When a war breaks out and india deploys the S400s, they will instantly be faced with a catch 22 situation. Do they waste their expensive S400s on these cheap but deadly drones that are heading their way? Or do they save the S400s for the real threat of SSM missiles? Either way, they will be destroyed. Because if they waste the S400s on the drones then battery will be effectively helpless against the Pakistan's SSMs and the PAF strikes. And if they don't shoot at the drones then naturally the drones themselves will destroy the S400 batteries. Basically a "damn if you do and damn if you don't" kinda situation.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

[CriticalThought]

1. is just fantasy.

2. Not enough range. Your would need at least a three megaton nuke to produce big enough EMP blast to take out radars in 400 Kn radius.

3. Not enough range + Pakistan does not have HARM.

4. Viable technique with only drawback being that Pakistan does not have enough air assets to saturate more than a couple of Radars. Each Radar could engage 80 targets simultaneously.

5. A viable tactic, when available, but even a stealth plane against S-400 would face major difficulty due to its extremely long detection range.


US has propsed a mix of 3,4 (using drones) ,and 5 along with EW using aircraft like .E/A-18 growler to take on S-400.

What if we merge 1 and 2? Imagine a special forces operative sneaking near the site and detonating the E-Bomb. I agree this is starting to sound like hollywood, but I am sure the SSG will be holding drills for such a scenario. We can say it is something that Pakistan can try, whether it succeeds is yet to be proven.

If we don't have HARM missiles, then we can certainly acquire HARM missiles.

Good discussion btw!

 

[Immortan.Joe]

A-A regiment has 2-3 platoons having 4 systems. That puts total units to 8-12 in a single regiment and 40-60 in 5 regiments. Not enough to cover the airspace even if all deployed.
B-As per news, India has contracted for 5 Systems, not 5 Regiments
India was originally buying 1 regiment i.e. 12 Systems but final agreement is being reported for 5 systems
https://sputniknews.com/military/201512171031883722-india-purchase-s400-deal/
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/india-russia-sign-5bn-s-400-triumph-defence-missile-deal-1586541


I like Modi's words

Seems like Modi is monitoring the developments with these "two new friends"

One 'system' of S-400 could control maximum of 72 launchers and 384 missiles. Indian contract is for 6000 missiles, which means that India would have 16 systems of S-400. It is a ballpark figure of two regiments.

Looks like reporters or their analysts miscalculated it as public info is for 6000 missiles.

 

[SBD-3]

One 'system' of S-400 could control maximum of 72 launchers and 384 missiles. Indian contract is for 6000 missiles, which means that India could have 16 systems of S-400. It is a ballpark figure of two regiments.

Looks like reporters or their analysts miscalculated it as public info is for 6000 missiles.

The forthcoming deal, estimated to be worth around 400 billion rupees ($6 billion at the current exchange rate), also covers the purchase of about 6,000 missiles, a mobile launcher and a radar station, according to the publication
https://sputniknews.com/military/201512171031883722-india-purchase-s400-deal/

 

[Immortan.Joe]

What if we merge 1 and 2? Imagine a special forces operative sneaking near the site and detonating the E-Bomb. I agree this is starting to sound like hollywood, but I am sure the SSG will be holding drills for such a scenario. We can say it is something that Pakistan can try, whether it succeeds is yet to be proven.

If we don't have HARM missiles, then we can certainly acquire HARM missiles.

Good discussion btw!

Biggest E-bombs are nuclear in nature. A conventional mobile EMP blast would need to be very very near (say less than a couple of kilometers) to fry a ground based radar. At that point you could use conventional bombs too.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Without going into the utter hilarity of YOU calling others trolls, how was it trolling? The only two cases a war can start is

1. Another terrorist attack by Pakistani terrorism factory on Indian soil, warranting a response
2. Another military misadventure by Pakistan like Kargil, Operation Gibraltar etc

Once Pakistan desists from the above two, they have effectively countered all Indian weapons, Triumf included.

Who knows when terrorists attack so then India will blame Pakistan for any attack then by your logic war.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

@SBD-3 The reporters publishing this report does seem to have a good knowledge about SAMs. A mobile launcher just carrier 4-5 missiles, and a Radar could not handle more than 384 missiles. What would India do with 6000 missiles, if it is only buying one mobile launcher or even a Radar?

The reporter clearly does not have even basic understanding of what a launcher is, or the fact that radars could not handle infinite systems.

 

[Skies]

An attached laser gun in an air craft/missile may destroy an incoming s400. Possible?

 

[SBD-3]

@SBD-3 The reporters publishing this report is mistaken. A mobile launcher just carrier 4-5 missiles, and a Radar could not handle more than 384 missiles. What would India do with 6000 missiles, if it is only buying one mobile launcher or even a Radar?

The reporter clearly does not have even basic understanding of what a launcher is, or the fact that radars could not handle infinite systems.

Most likely because India is contracting for Fixed launchers with an option to convert one into mobile

The system has 8 launchers, a control centre, a powerful radar and 16 missiles that are available for reload
http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...em-would-be-money-well-spent-by-india/418334/

A large number of missles maybe there because it can operate 4 types of missles
1-40N6 missile has an estimated operational range of 400 km (248.5 miles) the standard weapon which was in development as of last year
2-48N6 missile with a more limited range estimated at around 250 kilometers (155 miles)
3-9M96E Medium range SAM
4-9M96E2 Medium Range SAM

An attached laser gun in an air craft/missile may destroy an incoming s400. Possible?

Just one question, how would you put such a gun on the aircraft

 

[raj76]

The solution is extremely simple. You see, Pakistan would already know where are these missile batteries stationed. Even though these are mobile SAM systems, they aren't exactly the shoot and scoot types. It takes time to wrap things up, disconnect the power generators and etc and move. Until everything is wrapped up, the entire battery is staying put. And THAT is the S400's (or the S300's for that matter) Achille's heal. Pakistan already possess armed drone technology and they possess a pretty long range, long enough to penetrate deep inside india. These drones are far cheaper than even a single S400 missile and thus can be produced (and launched) in overwhelming numbers. Do you see what I'm getting at? We will use this technology to basically produce CANON FODDERS! When a war breaks out and india deploys the S400s, they will instantly be faced with a catch 22 situation. Do they waste their expensive S400s on these cheap but deadly drones that are heading their way? Or do they save the S400s for the real threat of SSM missiles? Either way, they will be destroyed. Because if they waste the S400s on the drones then battery will be effectively helpless against the Pakistan's SSMs and the PAF strikes. And if they don't shoot at the drones then naturally the drones themselves will destroy the S400 batteries. Basically a "damn if you do and damn if you don't" kinda situation.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

read about S400 they are not stationary 2nd u dont have drone tech to go deeper than 50-100km 3rd we have multi layered other sam saystems which will work with S400 and last and most important why would we remain as defensive once an offensive is launched on us

An attached laser gun in an air craft/missile may destroy an incoming s400. Possible?

lol seriously u lost the plot sir

 

[Basel]

For this technique to have a chance of succeeding, you would need good quality UCAVs like Haropy threatening S-400s.

You current Chinese kabbad is not overwhelming anything, even if it flies by thousands as it could be shot down even by museum piece AA guns.

Pakistan is working on indigenous UAV projects since long and also JVs with Turkey and China so there is no issue for Pakistan for developing suicide drone like harpy or stealthy UCAVs.

http://gids.com.pk/index

Edit.

following company has full potential to built decoy or suicide drones for Pakistan if they are tasked to do so.

http://idaerospace.com/ViewCategory.asp?cat=5-0-0

 

[Counterpunch]

Necessity is the mother of invention. It's just a matter of time.

But for now, surely India has an edge as a big chunk of our Air assets will be rendered useless. But, it's not like our territory is any more attackable after addition of S400 to India's arsenal

Pakistan can still track aircrafts inside India with AWACS (450~ KM) and can stay ready with short-to-medium range SAMs to counter any incoming jets but compared to 600Km detection range and 400 Km engaging range of S400 , it's a huge force multiplier for India

Moreover, as things are the probability factor of a confirm hit in case of rocket exchange will weigh heavily in India's favor and that is one point which Pakistan needs to work on. I think a number of strategies will be deployed and tested and a few viable ones will be put in place by the time the S400 moves out of the papers and on the ground i.e. 2020

From my initial learning India will be getting around 6000 missiles of the S400 system (5 systems or 5 Battalions) so swarming might not be entirely fruitful but could be tried nonetheless.

To conclude, the best way to counter it is acquisition of a similar potent system so that the balance of power doesn't stay tilted for too long