Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[Stag112]

Drama queen

1-Indian regime is so innocent,they never send spy agents like black tiger or Sarbajjet singh,lol
2-Indians are so innocent,victim of Pakistanis,they don't know who did operation seven sisters or Operation deep strike,might be some martians from monga monga country of mars, disguised as Indians did that b/c their watch dog is so scared of supa powa India,
3-The list is long,google more cinnamon bunny
4-Hum nahi kehtay,Indians khud kehtay hain:

Ex Indian Spy Documents RAW's Successes in Pakistan

Are Pakistan's allegations against RAW mere conspiracy theories? Are all of Pakistan's problems today entirely of its own making? Is RAW just a dis-interested spectator of thegrisly drama being played out in Pakistan?


Let's try and answer these questions by looking at the history of the Indian spy agency and its successes claimed by retired Indian intelligence officer RK Yadav in his 2014 book "Mission R&AW". Although the book cites some of RAW's actions in China (Tibet), Sikkim (annexation) and Sri Lanka (creation and support of LTTE), most of it is devoted to Indian agents' accomplishments in destabilizing and disintegrating Pakistan.
Yadav's Book:
Here are some of the key Pakistan-related excerpts from Yadav's book:
On Pakhtunistan Page 21:
" Wali Khan (son of Abdul Ghaffar Khan aka Bacha Khan) wanted moral, political and other support from Mrs. Indira Gandhi. R.N. Kao sent hs deputy Sankaran Nair to negotiate as the Indian representative. Since Pakistan embassy was keeping watch on the movements of Wali Khan, the rendezvous was shifted to Sweden where Nair and another R&AW man of Indian mission I.S. Hassanwalia met Wali Khan. Subsequently all sorts of support was given to Wali Khan by the Indian Government till 1977 when Indira Gandhi lost election". On Agartala Conspiracy Page 197:
"In view of the disclosures of S.K. Nair, it is evidently true that Mujib was implicated in the Agartala Conspiracy case at the instance of Pakistan Government. However, it is also true that other accused in this case were certainly agents of Intelligence Bureau (IB) in India"
On Fokker Hijacking in Srinagar Page 227:There was an agent of R&AW-Hashim Qureshi in Srinagar.......R&AW persuaded Hashim Qureshi to work for them.....After the plan was given final shape, on January 30, 1971, Hashim Qureshi along with another operative Ashraf Qureshi, his relative, was allowed to hijack a Fokker Friendship plane Ganga of Indian Airlines with 26 passengers on board, to take the plane to Lahore airport. R&AW allowed him to carry a grenade and a toy pistol inside the plane. Pakisani authorities at Lahore airport allowed the plane to land when they were informed that it had been hijacked by National Liberation Front activist militants of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. All India Radio soon made broadcast of this hijacking and the whole world was informed that the Pakistan Government was behind this hijacking...The incident overtly gave India the right opportunity which was planned by R.N. Kao, to cancel the flights of Pakistan over its territory which hampered the plans of Yahya Khan to send its troops by air to curb the political movement of Mujib in East Pakistan. On Mukti Bahini Page 231:
Since the Indian Army was not prepared and well-equipped for an immediate army action at that point (March 1971), it was planned to raise and train a guerrilla outfit of the Bengali refugees of East Pakistan by R&AW which would harass the Pakistan Army till the Indian Army would be ready for the final assault to the liberation of East Pakistan. She (Indira Gandhi) then asked R.N. Kao, Chief of R&AW, to prepare all possible grounds for the army for its final assault when the clearance from General Maneckshaw was received for its readiness for the war.
On 3 RAW created Forces (Mujeeb Bahini, Special Frontier Force (SFF) and Kader Bahini Page 242:
"..He (Kader Siddiqui aka Tiger Siddiqui) was the main operative of R&AW in the most vital areas of strategic operation around Dacca... Kader Bahini played havoc with the communication system of the army (Pakistani), ambushed enemy columns, blew up supply and ammunition dumps and assaulted a number of enemy convoys.....all these three guerrilla outfits created by R&AW with the help of BSF and the (Indian) army proved a vital force .. "
Obviously, the author is silent on India's current activities against Pakistan, particularly its covert war being waged from Afghanistan through its agents who have infiltrated Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA).
Ajit Doval Speech:
For clues as to what Indian spooks are up to now, let's watch the video of a 2013 speech by Ajit Doval delivered before he was appointed by Indian Prime Minister Modi as his National Security Advisor (NSA). Here are a few snippets from Doval's lecture at Sastra University in Tamil Nadu:
"How do we tackle Pakistan? .. You make it difficult for them (Pakistan) to manage their internal security... Pakistan's vulnerability is many many times higher than India's....Taliban have beheaded 23 of their (Pakistani) soldiers...funding can be countered by giving more funds...more than one-and-a-half times the funding they have available and they'll be yours..the Taliban are mercenaries...go for more of a covert thing"

Pakistan's Narrative:
Is India responsible for all that is wrong with Pakistan today? Obviously not; however, its spies are promoting and exploiting the ethnic, regional, religious and sectarian fault lines that exist in Pakistan. RAW is instigating and thriving on the chaos gripping the Islamic Republic.
Pakistan's response to its problems of growing violence has to be comprehensive; it needs to deal with both internal and external causes.
It has to develop and promote a powerful counter narrative to appeal to misguided young men who are drawn to the militants making references to the Quran and the Hadith as part of their call to violence. The counter narrative has to explain the basics; it has to be based on the Quranic verses proclaiming Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) as Rehmat ul lil Alameen (Blessing to the worlds); it has to explain Misaq e Madina, the constitution of the first real Islamic State established by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Madina.
"This is a document from Muhammad the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), governing relations between the Believers i.e. Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib and those who followed them and worked hard with them. They form one nation -- Ummah."
It clearly says that all citizens of "Yathrib" (ancient name of Madina), regardless of their tribe or religion, are part of one nation--"Ummah". So the word "Ummah" here does not exclude non-Muslims.
Further into the "Misaq" document, it says: "No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew. The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped. If anyone attacks anyone who is a party to this Pact the other must come to his help."
The Misaq assures equal protection to all citizens of Madina, including non-Muslim tribes which agreed to it. The contents of Misaq-e-Madina, Islam's first constitution approved by Prophet Mohammad 1400 years ago, appear to have inspired Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah vision of Pakistan where people of all religions and nationalities live in harmony with equal rights and protections under the law.
Counter-Intelligence Ops, Afghanistan:
Internal efforts alone will not succeed; Pakistan also has to mount a serious counter-intelligence challenge to blunt RAW's efforts to destabilize and disintegrate Pakistan. Pakistan has to try and stabilize Afghanistan to deny India what former US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel described as "India's second front against Pakistan".
Advice to India:
The best and most sane advice that can be offered India now is to think of the consequences of its actions in destabilizing its neighbor; particularly the fact that it s a large nuclear-armed country with a population approaching 200 million. India may find some short-term satisfaction by inflicting huge damage to its neighbor. But what if it leads to Pakistan becoming a REALLY failed state triggering a massive refugee problem along India's long border? What if the India-funded groups like TTP and BLA actually succeed in defeating the Pakistani military? What would that do to India? What if it triggers an unintended devastating nuclear war? I hope saner minds will prevail in New Delhi to prevent a major human catastrophe in South Asia.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grow up man,grow up!
Nobody is victim here.

regards

In all that long post mixing some facts, some convenient interpretations and some conjectures and allegations, you forgot to address my point. That is

In todays scenario

Which are the triggers

That could start a war

Where Triumph will be relevant

Btw disappointed to see you using hagels comments made as a civilian in a pro pakistani meeting, or dovals comments describing concepts to students at a seminar, again as a civilian. I though you would have more intellectual honesty than that.

And most importantly, let me reject the basis of your post, the assumption that India has to be a saint or a victim before pakistan will desist from acts that will lead to war. Sorry no cookies.

 

[Basel]

The discussion can be done on information available in public domain. You guys have always a very a very high opinion about your weapon and forces. They were very badly pitted against India in all past 4 wars. What alien technology you have as per your secret sources. Pl explain. Zaid hamid says that Allah’s soldiers came to fight with Indian army with open swords ridding on Horses. There is no remedy of someone who want to believe in a source which they can not give reference. You may believe in whatever you feel convenient. That is not a matter. If you have any reference to prove your point you are well come. Every time giving reference to some secret devine power to protect Pakistan and prove the point is a totally useless and BS idea. you always do that. It doesn't prove anything.

Really? Every weapon India purchases become invincible on PDF, kindly go through threads and you will know what I mean, but for that you have to be sensible which I doubt about.

 

[deckingraj]

Well Parrikar in India is Pressurizing Russia to stop the Defence Deals with Pakistan... the only deal that's been signed so far is 4 Mi-35 Heli which can be extended to 10-12 and a Gas pipeline deal worth 2 Billion Dollars.... So India is so scared of Mi-35 Heli after Getting S-400? I don't think so there are still many thing going on... Let Air Chief Marshal Sohail visit Russia this month we will all see the outcome of the visit and the rumors about Su-35 will be cleared

WTF.....guys u need to start living in reality...one rumor here and there and everyone starts harping about it....Indian and Russian relations dates back to 5 decades....these are not kids games....building relations is a time consuming thing....Russian-Pak coziness is fine as long as it is not causing concerns in India...one India presses the red button Russia will have to oblige....because economically/strategically Russia will loose more than gains by ignoring Indian concerns over Pak....

Also nobody in his/her rightful mind can think that a deal worth $10 billions can be inked just like that because there were unconfirmed rumors in public domain about a possible sale of su-34 to Pak...geez!!

 

[Muhammad Omar]

WTF.....guys u need to start living in reality...one rumor here and there and everyone starts harping about it....Indian and Russian relations dates back to 5 decades....these are not kids games....building relations is a time consuming thing....Russian-Pak coziness is fine as long as it is not causing concerns in India...one India presses the red button Russia will have to oblige....because economically/strategically Russia will loose more than gains by ignoring Indian concerns over Pak....

Also nobody in his/her rightful mind can think that a deal worth $10 billions can be inked just like that because there were unconfirmed rumors in public domain about a possible sale of su-34 to Pak...geez!!

The rumor came From Lenta.ru Russian News Site on 9th July First...

 

[deckingraj]

The rumor came From Lenta.ru Russian News Site on 9th July First...

so what....it can come from any direction...how does it change the context of my post....???

 

[Super Falcon]

s 400 vs su 35... nice... still you believe about su 35 deal..

Yes never say die attitude

 

[Slav Defence]

In all that long post mixing some facts, some convenient interpretations and some conjectures and allegations, you forgot to address my point. That is

In todays scenario

Which are the triggers

That could start a war

Where Triumph will be relevant

Btw disappointed to see you using hagels comments made as a civilian in a pro pakistani meeting, or dovals comments describing concepts to students at a seminar, again as a civilian. I though you would have more intellectual honesty than that.

And most importantly, let me reject the basis of your post, the assumption that India has to be a saint or a victim before pakistan will desist from acts that will lead to war. Sorry no cookies.

Well manipulated,
You come up with pathetic allegations and typical rants.You were the one who jumped up in simple Russian deal thread,whining and complaining,acting as saint that ''we are dealing because Pakistan is the cause of disturbance,paka mummy Pakistan ne ab tang nahi kiya tu hum bhi nahi keraingay'' and when I shared some facts,you again try to manipulate the simple post which also has conclusion ''grow up and stop being a drama queen''
Stick to the topic, Sir and focus on main issue.This argument will not give you or me any fruitful conclusion except more trolls will be attracted.You are taking thread in wrong orientation.It should be focused as if how beneficial this deal will be for Indians and what further benefits you could reap.

Regards

 

[amardeep mishra]

S-400 has Jet vanes and no frontal control surfaces. meaning that the missile cannot maneuver after the solid fuel has burnt out. Burnout time is about 10 seconds. So the missile can only make changes to its path in the first 10 seconds of launch,after that it becomes a projectile.
For that reason i am skeptic about it's ABM capability

Hi dear @shaheenmissile ,
I wish to shed some light on the ABM system in general,pardon me if my writing is too technical,although i will try my best to keep it as simple as possible-

Firstly i want to clear a few doubts,note-you dont need maneuvering in exo atmosphere! all you need to do is position the nose of the interceptor such the the angle of line of sight remains constant and the rest will be taken care by the onboard proportional or proportional+integral algorithm running in the digital computer of the interceptor!

as you can see in the picture above proportional navigation drives the sight angle lamda to a constant value thereby setting the missile on a "collision course" with the target.
the corresponding mathematical equation is-
(ac)lateral=-k*vr*(lamda)'
where k is the proportional gain
vr=relative velocity between missile and the target
and (lamda)' = rate of change of sight angle or d(lamda)/dt
kindly note that any k>3 will result in collision!
In some cases however one would want to control the angle at which the trajectory of missile crosses that of target,in such cases one needs to add a term proportional to the angle of sight to the above expression making it-
(ac)lateral= -k1*vc*(lamda)'-k2*g*lamda

canards provide better maneuverability at low angles of attack, but canards tend to become ineffective at high angles of attack because of flow separation that causes the surfaces to stall.Another aspect is Since canards are ahead of the center of gravity, they cause a destabilizing effect and require large fixed tails to keep the missile stable. These two sets of fins usually provide sufficient lift to make wings unnecessary.
Now if you notice the picture i have posted above,the exo atmospheric interceptor aka 40N6 or 48N6 doesnt require canards at all because of the simple reason that their operating altitude is such that canards loose the relevance . Whereas 9M96(endo interceptor) does sport a canard to quickly place the nose of the missile towards the target- it is very important if you are facing a "maneuvering" target.In exo atmosphere though ,you'd need "reaction jet" to quickly position the nose - something like the "canards" in indo-atmosphere- used in american THAAD and LOSAT systems

 

[danger007]

Hi dear @shaheenmissile ,
I wish to shed some light on the ABM system in general,pardon me if my writing is too technical,although i will try my best to keep it as simple as possible-
View attachment 270022
Firstly i want to clear a few doubts,note- canards provide better maneuverability at low angles of attack, but canards tend to become ineffective at high angles of attack because of flow separation that causes the surfaces to stall.Another aspect is Since canards are ahead of the center of gravity, they cause a destabilizing effect and require large fixed tails to keep the missile stable. These two sets of fins usually provide sufficient lift to make wings unnecessary.
Now if you notice the picture i have posted above,the exo atmospheric interceptor aka 40N6 or 48N6 doesnt require canards at all because of the simple reason that their operating altitude is such that canards loose the relevance . Whereas 9M96(endo interceptor) does sport a canard to quickly place the nose of the missile towards the target- it is very important if you are facing a "maneuvering" target.In exo atmosphere though ,you'd need "reaction jet" to quickly position the nose - something like the "canards" in exo-atmosphere- used in american THAAD and LOSAT systems

don't put too much effort not worth to reply here.. I would like to clarify you certain things.. I used to engage in convo when I joined in this forum... slowly I stopped discussing about such stuff... plenty people over here... can classify an fighter jet degree of stealth characteristics with their naked eyes... oh I forgot to add ships... people can attack Mumbai with fighter jet via sea.. as it is not possible to detect small fighter jet with Ashm or A2S when it fly over the sea(according to them). some people assumes they might have secret induction or secret weapons to counter our weapons procurement... people think CBG is useless and they can sunk it just like that.... I hope you read Base l posts more and more to improve your knowledge....


best regards...

 

[south block]

Hi dear @shaheenmissile ,
I wish to shed some light on the ABM system in general,pardon me if my writing is too technical,although i will try my best to keep it as simple as possible-
View attachment 270022
Firstly i want to clear a few doubts,note-you dont need maneuvering in exo atmosphere! all you need to do is position the nose of the interceptor such the the angle of line of sight remains constant and the rest will be taken care by the onboard proportional or proportional+integral algorithm running in the digital computer of the interceptor!
View attachment 270031
as you can see in the picture above proportional navigation drives the sight angle lamda to a constant value thereby setting the missile on a "collision course" with the target.
the corresponding mathematical equation is-
(ac)lateral=-k*vr*(lamda)'
where k is the proportional gain
vr=relative velocity between missile and the target
and lamda = sight angle.
kindly note that any k>3 will result in collision!
In some cases however one would want to control the angle at which the trajectory of missile crosses that of target,in such cases one needs to add a term proportional to the angle of sight to the above expression making it-
(ac)lateral= -k1*vc*(lamda)'-k2*g*lamda

canards provide better maneuverability at low angles of attack, but canards tend to become ineffective at high angles of attack because of flow separation that causes the surfaces to stall.Another aspect is Since canards are ahead of the center of gravity, they cause a destabilizing effect and require large fixed tails to keep the missile stable. These two sets of fins usually provide sufficient lift to make wings unnecessary.
Now if you notice the picture i have posted above,the exo atmospheric interceptor aka 40N6 or 48N6 doesnt require canards at all because of the simple reason that their operating altitude is such that canards loose the relevance . Whereas 9M96(endo interceptor) does sport a canard to quickly place the nose of the missile towards the target- it is very important if you are facing a "maneuvering" target.In exo atmosphere though ,you'd need "reaction jet" to quickly position the nose - something like the "canards" in exo-atmosphere- used in american THAAD and LOSAT systems

Sir i want to ask is it true that DRDO failure to build hypersonic interceptor & ka band seeker as being reported by some defense analyst's is the reason for India to go for S 400 , it would be very helpfull if you shed some light on this thank you

 

[knight11]

your posts do hold value, i have not seen you trolling yet so that's good, and trolling will either get to banned from certain sections from the forum or banned completely.
there is another guy just like you @knight11 (good guy) his posts hold value too, and at one point he got banned for trolling but only temporarily, and is also banned from specific sections of the forum. and he still is banned from specific sections of the forum. point being, don't be pulled into trolling.

Indians are guest here so the rules are different for indians and Pakistani members. Pakistani members can make a thread for the calling the idea for the division of India, on the basis of religion, but indian members if create such thread would be closed asap and op banned.

don't put too much effort not worth to reply here.. I would like to clarify you certain things.. I used to engage in convo when I joined in this forum... slowly I stopped discussing about such stuff... plenty people over here... can classify an fighter jet degree of stealth characteristics with their naked eyes... oh I forgot to add ships... people can attack Mumbai with fighter jet via sea.. as it is not possible to detect small fighter jet with Ashm or A2S when it fly over the sea(according to them). some people assumes they might have secret induction or secret weapons to counter our weapons procurement... people think CBG is useless and they can sunk it just like that.... I hope you read Base l posts more and more to improve your knowledge....


best regards...

I agree with danger007, don't give your much of effort here. Here CBG is a useless target and people here try to predict as the easiest target to distroy with a dumb gliding bomb. Here one lone J-7hb can fly and give all its munition and fry the CBG into ashes, and could not find that CBG is the most difficult target on the earth.

 

[monitor]

South Korea Goes Indigenous for Its Missile Defense Needs
South Korea’s bid to indigenize missile defense will have important ramifications for the U.S.-South Korea relationship.

By Benjamin David Baker
November 07, 2015
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South Korea is going indigenous in its attempt to upgrade its missile defense capabilities. In 2006, the country announced that it would create the Korean Air and Missile Defense System (KAMD), an integrated air-land-sea structure for the detection and destruction of incoming North Korean missiles, including nuclear short-range ballistic missiles.

The hardware involved in KAMD currently consists mostly of U.S. and Israeli platforms. The U.S.-designed Patroit PAC-2 and 3, supported by the Israeli EL/M-2080 Green Pine radar, make up the mainstay of the South Korean land-based anti-missile arsenal. At sea, the Republic of Korea Navy’s (ROKN) Sejeong the Great-class frigates and the Chungmugong Yi Sun-sin-class destroyers are equipped with the U.S. SM-2 Block IIIA/B missiles and AN/SPY-1 radar.

That might change. Seoul is set to complement the seaborne SM-2 with an indigenously designed and constructed missile. At the recent Seoul International Aerospace and Defense Exhibition 2015, South Korean company LIG Nex1 stated that the Korean Surface-to-Air Anti-Missile system (K-SAAM) is on track to be deployed to the ROKN by 2018. According to Jane’s, the 2.07 m long K-SAAM employs inertial mid-course guidance and a dual microwave and imaging infrared seeker for terminal guidance. Much of the details surrounding the weapon’s specifications are still classified.

The K-SAAM is a medium-range missile designed as a Close-in Weapons System (CIWS). As such, it would act as close protection for the ROKN warships that would be involved in defending South Korea’s coastal cities from attack by North Korean ballistic missiles and aircraft. K-SAAM is set to replace Raytheon’s Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM), the current system operated by the South Korean navy.

Another new addition to KAMD is the land-based Cheolmae II surface-to-air missile system. This weapon, which is set to enter service with the South Korean military this year, will provide KAMD with an indigenous land-based ballistic missile killer system and is set to complement the currently operating PAC-2 and 3s. The Cheolmae II has been designed through a cooperative venture between a consortium of South Korean companies (including LIG Nex1 and Samsung Thales) and Russian Almaz-Antey.

According to GlobalSecurity, the Cheolmae II has a maximum range of 40 km and can target aircraft and missiles flying at altitudes under 15 km. Once it is launched into air on a piston system, the missile’s rocket motor ignites and the missile is guided by the radar. The missile can change direction quickly and has little chance of being detected by the enemy because it gives off little flares. Equipped with anti-electronic warfare capabilities, the missile system can keep functioning despite electronic jamming maneuvers. The system is set to replace the aging U.S.-built MIM-23 HAWKs currently in service.

Furthermore, there are plans to develop an indigenous replacement for the Patriots. Based on the Russian S-400, the Cheolmae 4-H system will reportedly be capable of targeting ballistic missiles at ranges up to 150 km, with a ceiling of 60 km. This represents a performance twice of that of the Patriot system. If and when the Cheolmae-4 comes online, Seoul will be able to field locally produced hardware at all of the so-called “three-tier interception stages.”

Seoul’s recent indigenous arms procurement spree has some important political ramifications. Perhaps most crucially, the U.S. wants to deploy its own advanced missile defense system to South Korea, the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system (THAAD). This has been a deeply divisive issue in the country, with left-leaning elements in Korean politics calling for a definite denial of THAAD’s deployment. A big concern is China’s negative reaction to THAAD’s potential deployment. Beijing fears that the American system might be aimed at China, as much as North Korea. An indigenously produced missile shield could assuage Chinese fears while still providing effective protection against North Korean missiles (although it could upset Washington, which recently signed a missile-defense agreement with Japan).

Another important issue is the question of Operational Control (OPCON). As I wrote earlier this week, in wartime, the U.S. is to assume operational command of the South Korean military in addition to the 28,000 U.S. troops deployed on the peninsula. The two states have agreed in principle to transfer this responsibility to the South Korean military, conditional on several criteria. As previously reported by the Diplomat, this agreement calls “for the transfer of operational control to be ‘conditions based,’ meaning the move has been postponed indefinitely.”

One of these conditions is that South Korea must have the capability to destroy incoming North Korean missiles. While Washington would probably prefer to deploy THAAD, the new South Korean platforms could do the trick. As OPCON is almost equally as divisive as the THAAD-debate in Seoul, the deployment of the K-SAAM, Cheolmae II and Cheolmae 4 will probably be a smart political move for President Park Geun-hye’s government. Furthermore, the U.S. is tired of having to pay for the defense of its rich allies.

Seems like a win-win-win?

 

[Mrc]

Indians are guest here so the rules are different for indians and Pakistani members. Pakistani members can make a thread for the calling the idea for the division of India, on the basis of religion, but indian members if create such thread would be closed asap and op banned.


I agree with danger007, don't give your much of effort here. Here CBG is a useless target and people here try to predict as the easiest target to distroy with a dumb gliding bomb. Here one lone J-7hb can fly and give all its munition and fry the CBG into ashes, and could not find that CBG is the most difficult target on the earth.

By carrier battle group i guess u mean that rusty piece of diesal powered junk taken out of graveyard, armed with migs and protected by ships employing latest israeli sam barak 8
(Only that barak 8 is not service yet)

I thinks its slightly different than an american CBG, a real super power ...

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

Do Pakistan really need to give any response? I guess NO. Because both are independent courtiers and need to have international relations with different ways. Pakistan should not even seem to give any glance and let them feel we are strong enough to encounter our land. My opinion!

ya and we should only deploy stones like you are allowing Palestinians to throw that extra ordinary weapon at israelis .....

 

[shaheenmissile]

Hi dear @shaheenmissile ,
I wish to shed some light on the ABM system in general,pardon me if my writing is too technical,although i will try my best to keep it as simple as possible-
View attachment 270022
Firstly i want to clear a few doubts,note-you dont need maneuvering in exo atmosphere! all you need to do is position the nose of the interceptor such the the angle of line of sight remains constant and the rest will be taken care by the onboard proportional or proportional+integral algorithm running in the digital computer of the interceptor!
View attachment 270031
as you can see in the picture above proportional navigation drives the sight angle lamda to a constant value thereby setting the missile on a "collision course" with the target.
the corresponding mathematical equation is-
(ac)lateral=-k*vr*(lamda)'
where k is the proportional gain
vr=relative velocity between missile and the target
and (lamda)' = rate of change of sight angle or d(lamda)/dt
kindly note that any k>3 will result in collision!
In some cases however one would want to control the angle at which the trajectory of missile crosses that of target,in such cases one needs to add a term proportional to the angle of sight to the above expression making it-
(ac)lateral= -k1*vc*(lamda)'-k2*g*lamda

canards provide better maneuverability at low angles of attack, but canards tend to become ineffective at high angles of attack because of flow separation that causes the surfaces to stall.Another aspect is Since canards are ahead of the center of gravity, they cause a destabilizing effect and require large fixed tails to keep the missile stable. These two sets of fins usually provide sufficient lift to make wings unnecessary.
Now if you notice the picture i have posted above,the exo atmospheric interceptor aka 40N6 or 48N6 doesnt require canards at all because of the simple reason that their operating altitude is such that canards loose the relevance . Whereas 9M96(endo interceptor) does sport a canard to quickly place the nose of the missile towards the target- it is very important if you are facing a "maneuvering" target.In exo atmosphere though ,you'd need "reaction jet" to quickly position the nose - something like the "canards" in indo-atmosphere- used in american THAAD and LOSAT systems

Hi,the reply is long, it will take me sometime to read and verify