Possible procurements of Army Aviation (Exclusive Inside News)

[Blackpearl]

AS 350 Ecureuil and and AS 550 Fennac are same aircarft but 350 is a commercial version, best suited for high altitude operations.
550 is an armed version, suited for armed recconisance, light anti tank role.

Pakistan has 350s with it. If Pakistan opts for getting more high altitiude helos then it should go for 350s rather for 550s (combat Fennecs). In high altitude, where it is thin air, and every possible effort is made to make the helo as light as possible, there is no reqwuirement of guns, rockets or missiles.

 

[Ahassan]

I recently talked to my source who's currently busy trying to approve a deal for Pakistan Army Aviation regarding procurements of Combat and logistic helicopters for Pakistan Army Aviation. Deal also includes flight simulators.

According to the limited and unclear information I have, these are the items currently on paper which 'MIGHT' get approved.

Note: I didn't had much time over the phone with my source so some of the company names that I've listed might have spelling errors as I was having some connection problems with my phone service.

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1. Procurement of combat and regular flight simulators from 'Richmond and Global' for 35 million$.

2. 100 Million dollar spare parts from a company called 'Spilka' for an undisclosed army vehicle/aircraft.

3. 275 million$ deal with Asean/Aesan International C/O Eurocopter France for Combat helicopters.

4. MI-35 Attack helicopters from KSC LTD C/O Russo and Bruno export co for 150 Million$.

5. Phoenix AW-109 Multi-purpose helicopters for 100 Million Euro's from Eurocopter/Agusta-Westland

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Note: These plans aren't finalzed. These are currently being offered to Pakistan and the deal is currently on paper.

AW-109 Helicopter



MI-35

Bezerk thanks for the info but let me tell you pakistan army aviation wont be looking for new machines to fly pentagon authorities have already cleared for the upgradation of our Ah-1 cobras to AH-1Z standards!

 

[MZUBAIR]

I recently talked to my source who's currently busy trying to approve a deal for Pakistan Army Aviation regarding procurements of Combat and logistic helicopters for Pakistan Army Aviation. Deal also includes flight simulators.

According to the limited and unclear information I have, these are the items currently on paper which 'MIGHT' get approved.

Note: I didn't had much time over the phone with my source so some of the company names that I've listed might have spelling errors as I was having some connection problems with my phone service.

------------------------------------------------------

1. Procurement of combat and regular flight simulators from 'Richmond and Global' for 35 million$.

2. 100 Million dollar spare parts from a company called 'Spilka' for an undisclosed army vehicle/aircraft.

3. 275 million$ deal with Asean/Aesan International C/O Eurocopter France for Combat helicopters.

4. MI-35 Attack helicopters from KSC LTD C/O Russo and Bruno export co for 150 Million$.

5. Phoenix AW-109 Multi-purpose helicopters for 100 Million Euro's from Eurocopter/Agusta-Westland

-----------------------------------------------------------​

Note: These plans aren't finalzed. These are currently being offered to Pakistan and the deal is currently on paper.

AW-109 Helicopter



MI-35

Thanxs good news

 

[Blackpearl]

I can summerize the required roles of helos and available options within country:

1. Primery helicopter Training - Schwizer 269C (held with Army)
2. Light observation, reconnassiance, scouting - Jet Rangers, Allouette III, SA 315B (held with Army)
3. High altitude flying, SAR, - AS350 B3 ( held with Army)
4. Utility, Medevac, air assault - UH-1H, Bell 412 Held with Army, we require more Bell 412s)
5. Troop and material transport - Puma & MI-17 (held, but we require more)
6. Attack, Anti Tank - Cobras (held, we require more)

i would not support MI-35. Cobra +MI-17 do the same role. new helicopter and requires mastery of a new employment skill. MI-35 can maximum take 8 fully combat ready troops, not even a section strength. Cobras and MI-17 can work in conjunction (they are already doing this). MI-35 has a bigger cross saection area, bigger size, though it can provide suppressive fire while airborne, but when it has to off load the troops on ground, either from air (using fast roping technique) or on ground( air assault) it will be exposed to firing from all directions, and at that moment, it cannot emply any of its weapons. If door guns are mounted (like in Rambo III, Blood Diamond movies), troop carrying and emplyment capability will be reduced to 4, rest of the space will be taken by door guns and their operators.

Now consider this, cobras provide top cover, provide 20 mm cannon fire on enemy locations and troops offload from MI-17, so simultanously fire and employment is taking place.

 

[RescueRanger]

BW... What you propose above is good but so far Pakistani army has limited tactical troop trasnport helo's. It would be good to add a few more to our inventory.

I am not an avaitor so would value a winger's opinion on this.

 

[fatman17]

I can summerize the required roles of helos and available options within country:

1. Primery helicopter Training - Schwizer 269C (held with Army)
2. Light observation, reconnassiance, scouting - Jet Rangers, Allouette III, SA 315B (held with Army)
3. High altitude flying, SAR, - AS350 B3 ( held with Army)
4. Utility, Medevac, air assault - UH-1H, Bell 412 Held with Army, we require more Bell 412s)
5. Troop and material transport - Puma & MI-17 (held, but we require more)
6. Attack, Anti Tank - Cobras (held, we require more)

i would not support MI-35. Cobra +MI-17 do the same role. new helicopter and requires mastery of a new employment skill. MI-35 can maximum take 8 fully combat ready troops, not even a section strength. Cobras and MI-17 can work in conjunction (they are already doing this). MI-35 has a bigger cross saection area, bigger size, though it can provide suppressive fire while airborne, but when it has to off load the troops on ground, either from air (using fast roping technique) or on ground( air assault) it will be exposed to firing from all directions, and at that moment, it cannot emply any of its weapons. If door guns are mounted (like in Rambo III, Blood Diamond movies), troop carrying and emplyment capability will be reduced to 4, rest of the space will be taken by door guns and their operators.

Now consider this, cobras provide top cover, provide 20 mm cannon fire on enemy locations and troops offload from MI-17, so simultanously fire and employment is taking place.

nice summary!we need the Chinooks!

 

[Super Falcon]

i think mi 35 will do alot great for army it is attack heli and can carry troops

 

[hj786]

Bezerk thanks for the info but let me tell you pakistan army aviation wont be looking for new machines to fly pentagon authorities have already cleared for the upgradation of our Ah-1 cobras to AH-1Z standards!

Thanks for that info airbus, please tell us anything else you hear, especially about when and how many of extra cobras being supplied, will they be supplied upgraded or will upgrades happen later, anything else you can find out. We appreciate it!

 

[XYON]

------------------------------------------------------

1. Procurement of combat and regular flight simulators from 'Richmond and Global' for 35 million$.

2. 100 Million dollar spare parts from a company called 'Spilka' for an undisclosed army vehicle/aircraft.

3. 275 million$ deal with Asean/Aesan International C/O Eurocopter France for Combat helicopters.

4. MI-35 Attack helicopters from KSC LTD C/O Russo and Bruno export co for 150 Million$.

5. Phoenix AW-109 Multi-purpose helicopters for 100 Million Euro's from Eurocopter/Agusta-Westland

-----------------------------------------------------------​

A few 'worldly' facts.

a. US$35M + US$100M + US$275M +US$150M +US$100M = US$660M!!! Who is going to foot the bill? Certainly not Pakistan Army as they do not have access to the funds to even buy basic weapons upgrade these days.

b. Army Aviation has been looking for a RORO (Roll-On, Roll Off), all-in-one (yeah right!) simulator for Cobra's, Mi-17, Puma. This project is about 10 years old and many companies including CAE from Canada, Frasca from USA etc have offered 'give-you-the-moon' proposals going back and forth from Army Aviation to GHQ almost everyday. However due to the simply unrealistic 'all-in-one' demand, this ain't happening anytime soon.

c. The only Eurocopter Army operates is the Fennec. The attack helicopter European version being considered is the Tiger. But again too expensive and no money in the kitty!

d. Mi-35 Hind was considered by GHQ a few years back. A team from GHQ even went to Poland & France to see the 'used' Mi-35's up for sale. The deal almost went through but fizzled at the last minute when the Russians refused to deliver due to India factor. Funnily, the local man who got the initial contract had promised the twelve Mi-35 Hinds (Night Attack) to be delivered through routing through 4 countries eventually landing in Dubai and to Pakistan. Rumor's also had it at that time that CIA blessed this deal and was helping out! Ahh! if only wishes were cents quite a few of us would be rich men!

e. Agustawestland is a new entrant in the Helicopter market in Pakistan (AW139 for 6th Aviation Squadron) for VVIP market. The A129 Attack version is not a mature platform at this stage to be considered by Italy's own military let alone Pakistan. And I doubt if they would be able to suppress the influence of the US with its Cobra's being operated by the Army.

Just my 2.5 cents!

 

[fatman17]

------------------------------------------------------

1. Procurement of combat and regular flight simulators from 'Richmond and Global' for 35 million$.

2. 100 Million dollar spare parts from a company called 'Spilka' for an undisclosed army vehicle/aircraft.

3. 275 million$ deal with Asean/Aesan International C/O Eurocopter France for Combat helicopters.

4. MI-35 Attack helicopters from KSC LTD C/O Russo and Bruno export co for 150 Million$.

5. Phoenix AW-109 Multi-purpose helicopters for 100 Million Euro's from Eurocopter/Agusta-Westland

-----------------------------------------------------------​

A few 'worldly' facts.

a. US$35M + US$100M + US$275M +US$150M +US$100M = US$660M!!! Who is going to foot the bill? Certainly not Pakistan Army as they do not have access to the funds to even buy basic weapons upgrade these days.

b. Army Aviation has been looking for a RORO (Roll-On, Roll Off), all-in-one (yeah right!) simulator for Cobra's, Mi-17, Puma. This project is about 10 years old and many companies including CAE from Canada, Frasca from USA etc have offered 'give-you-the-moon' proposals going back and forth from Army Aviation to GHQ almost everyday. However due to the simply unrealistic 'all-in-one' demand, this ain't happening anytime soon.

c. The only Eurocopter Army operates is the Fennec. The attack helicopter European version being considered is the Tiger. But again too expensive and no money in the kitty!

d. Mi-35 Hind was considered by GHQ a few years back. A team from GHQ even went to Poland & France to see the 'used' Mi-35's up for sale. The deal almost went through but fizzled at the last minute when the Russians refused to deliver due to India factor. Funnily, the local man who got the initial contract had promised the twelve Mi-35 Hinds (Night Attack) to be delivered through routing through 4 countries eventually landing in Dubai and to Pakistan. Rumor's also had it at that time that CIA blessed this deal and was helping out! Ahh! if only wishes were cents quite a few of us would be rich men!

e. Agustawestland is a new entrant in the Helicopter market in Pakistan (AW139 for 6th Aviation Squadron) for VVIP market. The A129 Attack version is not a mature platform at this stage to be considered by Italy's own military let alone Pakistan. And I doubt if they would be able to suppress the influence of the US with its Cobra's being operated by the Army.

Just my 2.5 cents!

yes indeed! everything is out there to buy if you have the funds available and the approval of the supplier's govt. therefore the military has to be very careful how it spends its budget. priortization is very important. currently the 39 cobras in our inventory are doing a good job even though the US supply chain is quite slow. keeping that in mind 20 used cobras were purchased for spares availability.

now if somehow the chinese attack helicopter develops into a effective platform (powerplant/avionics issues at the moment), then it could be considered as a future platfrom to buy. till then look for the cobras to remain the front-line attack helicopter in the PAA inventory in the near future with possible addition of more cobras (8-10).

 

[Arsalan]

just get some attack helicopter, a squadron or two will be good enough, giving us 20 to 30 more birds to support already present cobras.
options
get about 30 cobras from US as a package for WOT for scratch and upgrade them!
or
go for the turkish T129

for transport
]let us stay in limits, forget the eurocopters or chinooks! go for more Mi17 and Pumas and refurbish them

for all the upgrades i have talked about we can get assistance from
turkey
south africa
china