Possible new terror attack in London unfolding.

[AUSTERLITZ]

RIP to the innocents.Depressingly familiar turn of events.
Hopefully more proactive steps will be taken than praying for london on twitter,hold candle march and temporarily raise threat level.To be fair,this type of bus/knife attack is near impossible to stop.The only way is to roundup suspected isis moles/scum who were being monitored - goes against democratic principles ,but if that isn't done more deaths will follow and at some point patience and unity will snap.

 

[mike2000 is back]

To be fair,this type of bus/knife attack is near impossible to stop.The only way is to roundup suspected isis moles/scum who were being monitored - goes against democratic principles ,but if that isn't done more deaths will follow and at some point patience and unity will

Which is exactly what I said. We can't detain (maximum here is 28 days, before this rise in islamic extremists terrorism it was far less) them indefinitely without them actually carrying out the attacks. It might sound harsh but it's the truth. We can only wait for them to act before our security forces intervene and prosecute them. Else it will be futile to just prosecute and imprison them for supporting ISIS, Al Qaeda other radical islamic groups verbally or preaching hate/radical ideology. These are not enough to really sentence them for long or prosecute them, doing so will go against our democratic principles. So it's a delicate abd tricky balance we have to follow.

 

[Penguin]

Which is exactly what I said. We can't detain (maximum here is 28 days, before this rise in islamic extremists terrorism it was far less) them indefinitely without them actually carrying out the attacks. It might sound harsh but it's the truth. We can only wait for them to act before our security forces intervene and prosecute them. Else it will be futile to just prosecute and imprison them for supporting ISIS, Al Qaeda other radical islamic groups verbally or preaching hate/radical ideology. These are not enough to really sentence them for long or prosecute them, doing so will go against our democratic principles. So it's a delicate abd tricky balance we have to follow.

Nor would we want to...

For starters, where would you put people you rounded up. And for how long would you keep them? And what would you do during detention? And under what conditions would you no longer detain them? And what kind of 'after care' would be necessary to effectively prevent any wrongfully detained persons to not turn into exactly what you do not want them to become (assuming eventual release).

See Japanse American detainees (and these innocent people actually - luckily - didn't turn extremist despite their ordeal). Nightmare scenario: see dirty wars in Chile and Argentina.

It's a can of worms.

• Six people killed: London Metropolitan Police have confirmed that six people were killed in the attack. Dozens of others were injured, including 48 taken to five hospitals across the city.
• The attackers: Police officers pursued and shot dead three attackers within eight minutes of the first emergency call, London police said. The suspects were wearing what were later found to be fake suicide vests.
• London Bridge: Just after 10 p.m. local time (5 p.m. ET), a van speeding south across London Bridge struck several pedestrians.
• Borough Market: The van drove onto Borough Market where three men jumped out and started stabbing people. Images from the scene showed some severely injured.
• British Prime Minister Theresa May: Conservative Party suspends election campaign Sunday. May will convene a Cobra emergency meeting.
• London Mayor Sadiq Khan: "Furious" about the attacks. Terror threat level has not been raised from "severe," the second-highest level.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/03/europe/london-bridge-incident-live-blog/index.html

WITHIN 8 MINUTES. Even is adding some time between the first action and the first emergency call, that's a pretty right quick (and deadly!) response. Kudo's.

 

[Meengla]

RIP to the innocents.Depressingly familiar turn of events.
Hopefully more proactive steps will be taken than praying for london on twitter,hold candle march and temporarily raise threat level.To be fair,this type of bus/knife attack is near impossible to stop.The only way is to roundup suspected isis moles/scum who were being monitored - goes against democratic principles ,but if that isn't done more deaths will follow and at some point patience and unity will snap.

RIP to the victims. What a sad loss of life.

You are right: Such bus/knife attacks are near impossible to stop. But 'snap' is the right word to describe what's going to happen. I'd say start with BANNING those mosques which even hint at fundamentalist Islam. Nothing good comes out of such sermons.

PS. I feel like it's just best to live in some remote island, away from the mayhem we call civilization. It ain't worth it.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Three attackers were shot dead by the Police within eight minutes of the emergency call being made, great work by Police but there needs to be more done on the intelligence side. I know they probably working very hard but someone somewhere must have known this was about to go down.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Nor would we want to...

For starters, where would you put people you rounded up. And for how long would you keep them? And what would you do during detention? And under what conditions would you no longer detain them? And what kind of 'after care' would be necessary to effectively prevent any wrongfully detained persons to not turn into exactly what you do not want them to become (assuming eventual release).

See Japanse American detainees (and these innocent people actually - luckily - didn't turn extremist despite their ordeal). Nightmare scenario: see dirty wars in Chile and Argentina.

It's a can of worms.



WITHIN 8 MINUTES. Even is adding some time between the first action and the first emergency call, that's a pretty right quick (and deadly!) response. Kudo's.

My Countryman,

We need to also focus on early detection and re-education as well. Yes, I know I sound very un-Dtuch!

What about those imams who live off welfare and still preach hate? Why can't we just deport them?

Religious freedom and freedom of speech is part of our constituition and we can never let any biggot to force us change that. But without going overboard we can have active monitoring of these for-profit hatemongers.

I don't say that all muslims in NL are like that. Not at all...but these hatemongers for-profit preachers need to be dealt with. These are poison.

I say give one warning.. and anything that is against our Values or Laws... off you go where you came from.

I can not even imagine that something that happend in UK, Belgium, France of late happens in our country.

Again without breaking our own laws or violating our constituition we must act with resolve.

Our tolerance is our strength and none can use it as our weakness. BVD must know alot.. we need to involve local police and community in a more structured and organised manner.

And no, I am not against any community or religion. In NL everyone has the Right and Freedom to practice their chosen faith as long as it remains a private matter between the believer and the believed.

Also, women are absolutely equal to men. Period.

I am in a bit of shock, so do tolerate my rant... yesterday, I shared my fear with you and here we are confronted with the evil.

Fijne dag verder,

SPF

 

[Jacob Martin]

Update - Theresa May has said that this can't go on and that "enough is enough"....

....now EVERYONE has to change their Facebook DP to a blank screen and EVERYONE has to sing John Lennon's Imagine.

 

[Divergent]

It makes me so sad to see London and overall England suffer, just a week ago everyone was recovering from a huge loss of 22 lives and now this..for those who live here are aware it has very little to do with religion and more to do with politics. The Labour Party is becoming very popular whereas the Tories aren't. Anything to do with 'take them out' and 'don't let them in' seems appealing right now and could take a swerve. Unfortunately it's a dirty and vile game which causes loss of innocent lives. Do I trust this Government? No.

Real Muslims were too busy opening fasts and praying, not mowing down people. It's a terrible incident.

But I have to admit, England in comparison to most Western Countries is tolerant and extremism needs to be stamped out.

 

[waz]

The response was quick and my best wishes to our forces who did a great job. Make no mistake about this, the UK is looking at its most darkest chapter since the days of the IRA campaigns of the early to mid 80's, which I remember well. However, unlike the terrorism of the past, there are no warnings and these savages plan to die in the attacks.

As for more information on the attackers, I'm afraid one of them is probably of Asian heritage.

On another note @Vergennes French intelligence has confirmed that the device used by the Manchester suicide attacker is exactly the same as the devices used in France and Belgium. So our countries will be coming even closer together.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Nor would we want to...

For starters, where would you put people you rounded up. And for how long would you keep them? And what would you do during detention? And under what conditions would you no longer detain them? And what kind of 'after care' would be necessary to effectively prevent any wrongfully detained persons to not turn into exactly what you do not want them to become (assuming eventual release).

Exactly, which is exactly what I said earlier. Despite all the troubles this might cause , we can't do such a thing. Not only will it violate our democratic principles in Britain but it might also lead to public backlash in case of a wrongdoing. So it's not an option to follow.

What about those imams who live off welfare and still preach hate? Why can't we just deport them?

Well, there are rules and laws we have to follow plus there's also the European convention of human rights which prevents such rash actions. So some people might thing it's a simple question of "just deport these hate preachers and terro suspects and all". However I think such simplistic talk is just an emotional reaction rather than a well thought out analysis/response. If it was that easy to 'just deport' those imams or individuals who preach hate or sympathize with radical islamic terrorist m groups then there will be hundreds of them being deported every single month all over Europe. lol
Just look at the difficulties our authorities faced deporting the notorious and well known radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, after nearly a decade-long legal battle (which cost the British tax payer millions) to expel the man once dubbed Osama bin Laden's deputy in Europe. Lol. So imagine the difficulties involved in deporting other far less known radical islamic preachers here, if deporting a well known radical terrorist was this hard. Thats the sad reality. It's difficult to find a balance between our tolerant laws and curtailing the activities of such radicals. So I believe we should look at other ways of addressing this issue. Just "Deporting them' isn't always the best solution, since it comes with its own legal challenges which can be even more frustrating than dealing with the aftermath of their attacks.

 

[Penguin]

What about those imams who live off welfare and still preach hate? Why can't we just deport them?

Religious freedom and freedom of speech is part of our constituition and we can never let any biggot to force us change that. But without going overboard we can have active monitoring of these for-profit hatemongers.

And we do. You realize there are also quite a few imams in our country that are not on welfare but funded by/from foreign countries?

I can not even imagine that something that happend in UK, Belgium, France of late happens in our country.

Don't hold your breath.... it is bound to happen sooner of later, just a matter of time imho.

 

[NoOne'sBoy]

It's a fight for values without defined enemies. I don't believe in either leftist or far-right methods. Leftists believe in acceptance of minorities without demanding minorities to accept western values and right wing believes in full blown racism. Is there a middle path?

 

[mike2000 is back]

It's a fight for values without defined enemies. I don't believe in either leftist or far-right methods. Leftists believe in acceptance of minorities without demanding minorities to accept western values and right wing believes in full blown racism. Is there a middle path?

Very difficult to find a middle part, since when you do, one side will still blame you and call you names.

 

[waz]

radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, after nearly a decade-long legal battle (which cost the British tax payer millions) to expel the man once dubbed Osama bin Laden's deputy in Europe.

He along with three others poisoned thousands of youth. He was allowed here in the 90's and given leave to remain, something myself and the traditional Muslim community from the Sub-continent objected to. The government just ignored the warnings. We need to go back in time to see the roots of all this.

 

[American Pakistani]

Exactly, which is exactly what I said earlier. Despite all the troubles this might cause , we can't do such a thing. Not only will it violate our democratic principles in Britain but it might also lead to public backlash in case of a wrongdoing. So it's not an option to follow.


Well, there are rules and laws we have to follow plus there's also the European convention of human rights which prevents such rash actions. So some people might thing it's a simple question of "just deport these hate preachers and terro suspects and all". However I think such simplistic talk is just an emotional reaction rather than a well thought out analysis/response. If it was that easy to 'just deport' those imams or individuals who preach hate or sympathize with radical islamic terrorist m groups then there will be hundreds of them being deported every single month all over Europe. lol
Just look at the difficulties our authorities faced deporting the notorious and well known radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, after nearly a decade-long legal battle (which cost the British tax payer millions) to expel the man once dubbed Osama bin Laden's deputy in Europe. Lol. So imagine the difficulties involved in deporting other far less known radical islamic preachers here, if deporting a well known radical terrorist was this hard. Thats the sad reality. It's difficult to find a balance between our tolerant laws and curtailing the activities of such radicals. So I believe we should look at other ways of addressing this issue. Just "Deporting them' isn't always the best solution, since it comes with its own legal challenges which can be even more frustrating than dealing with the aftermath of their attacks.

Kill them instead of deporting those swines.