POLL: Which will be more effective, "SAARC" or "Brother Nation" idea.

[TopCat]

Gromell, please provide us the verdict of a neutral court, where it vouches the authentication of your claims on millions of my fellow Bengalis getting killed by W Pakistani soldiers and also do the same on your 'Dishonoring Bengali women' claim by same folks. Having been warned and lost in rational arguments, you have decided to use the sidekick tactic through emotional hodge-podge, sensational stories based on lies, damn lies and statistics that too have been manufactured in wartime, to create generational impact as a terminology known as Objective journalism just to malign enemy of thousand years.

Furthermore, the idea of forming a neutral truth commission on who have drawn the blood first and dishonor first has always been resisted by no one other than your AWAMY, Indian dalals the most, which replicates the saying, " Bichar Mani kintu boro Talgash ta Amar". So, remember, next time before you start your paparazzi again on this matter, AGNO's work might come into play.

Millions sounds too many but it is not in a war when the country is highly populated and there were targetted civilian killing. We did not have collateral damage in 1971 only ethnic cleansing.
You might be ashtonished to see in Iraq the death count already exceeded 1 lac even though it does not look like more than thousands from outside.
Iraq Body Count

Hope this comparison will help.
As we did not have a counting machine in 1971 so nobody could establish the correct figure but it is not too less than the established figure.

 

[idune]

Millions sounds too many but it is not in a war when the country is highly populated and there were targetted civilian killing. We did not have collateral damage in 1971 only ethnic cleansing.
You might be ashtonished to see in Iraq the death count already exceeded 1 lac even though it does not look like more than thousands from outside.
Iraq Body Count

Hope this comparison will help.
As we did not have a counting machine in 1971 so nobody could establish the correct figure but it is not too less than the established figure.

How can you complain civilian killing during war when you wanted Mujib to kill thousands during peace time in Bangladesh?????

You or Awami goons have no credibility moral or otherwise.

 

[eastwatch]

Millions sounds too many but it is not in a war when the country is highly populated and there were targetted civilian killing. We did not have collateral damage in 1971 only ethnic cleansing.
You might be ashtonished to see in Iraq the death count already exceeded 1 lac even though it does not look like more than thousands from outside.
Iraq Body Count

Hope this comparison will help.
As we did not have a counting machine in 1971 so nobody could establish the correct figure but it is not too less than the established figure.

It was the duty of the 1st AL govt after the war to count the deads with their names and addresses, but, those peasant Awami Leagures did not do it. Instead, they went after bla, bla and bla. It is still not too late to know how many were killed and under what circumstances. So, press your govt to do so.

30 year long Vietnam war killed just 1 million to 2 million and with those 200 metre diameter napalm bombs. US bombers had wiped out entire villages with these fire bombs. And AL says about 3 million killed overnight in BD. Why some people have to think that the independence war was not that great if the number killed was less than that figure? Is it that relevant?

If 3 million were killed, then where are those others who were injured. There should be at least 9 million Bangalis injured without limbs. Why can't we see them anywhere in the streets?

There must be surveys in every village and mahalla to find out the truth. It is not necessary that to become an independent country we must have to claim 3 million dead. It is not only a lie, it is also a shame. When all other nations write stories about how many enemy troops they have killed, it is only we, the weeping babies, who write stories about the heroism of the enemy by exaggerating our own loss. It is a typical Hindu style of Awami cowards.

I have never heard any Afghan or Iraqi claim about trillions killed. They claim about how many enemy troops they have killed. AL policy is disgusting, they should wear CHURI and weep like women. These AL cronies do not understand that this kind of false claim only makes us cowards in the eyes of others. Some Pakistanis joke, 'Ek goli pe das Bangali marta hai. Ek goli lag ke marta hai, our baki sare marta hai goli ka awaaz sun ke.'

Moreover, whatever may the number of deaths, AL leadership is responsible for that. They were unable to protect the population from being killed. The more killed, the more AL is responsible, because some were hiding in west Pakistan and some were hiding in the Theater Road of Calcutta. AL should apologize to the population for being unable to give protection. Instead, it is blaming others all through these years.

 

[TopCat]

It was the duty of the 1st AL govt after the war to count the deads with their names and addresses, but, those peasant Awami Leagures did not do it. Instead, they went after bla, bla and bla. It is still not too late to know how many were killed and under what circumstances. So, press your govt to do so.

30 year long Vietnam war killed just 1 million to 2 million and with those 200 metre diameter napalm bombs. US bombers had wiped out entire villages with these fire bombs. And AL says about 3 million killed overnight in BD. Why some people have to think that the independence war was not that great if the number killed was less than that figure? Is it that relevant?

If 3 million were killed, then where are those others who were injured. There should be at least 9 million Bangalis injured without limbs. Why can't we see them anywhere in the streets?

There must be surveys in every village and mahalla to find out the truth. It is not necessary that to become an independent country we must have to claim 3 million dead. It is not only a lie, it is also a shame. When all other nations write stories about how many enemy troops they have killed, it is only we, the weeping babies, who write stories about the heroism of the enemy by exaggerating our own loss. It is a typical Hindu style of Awami cowards.

I have never heard any Afghan or Iraqi claim about trillions killed. They claim about how many enemy troops they have killed. AL policy is disgusting, they should wear CHURI and weep like women. These AL cronies do not understand that this kind of false claim only makes us cowards in the eyes of others. Some Pakistanis joke, 'Ek goli pe das Bangali marta hai. Ek goli lag ke marta hai, our baki sare marta hai goli ka awaaz sun ke.'

Moreover, whatever may the number of deaths, AL leadership is responsible for that. They were unable to protect the population from being killed. The more killed, the more AL is responsible, because some were hiding in west Pakistan and some were hiding in the Theater Road of Calcutta. AL should apologize to the population for being unable to give protection. Instead, it is blaming others all through these years.

There was no ethnic cleansing in vietnam. You know better than me, how people were killed here. In my previous post I did mention that there were no collateral damage or deaths so less injuries. The proof is 10 million refugee which were duly counted. And why only AL needs to count the body? Why not other people who ruled the country for decades bears the same responsibility? They are in froefront in enlisting bogus freedom fighter but not remembering those deaths. Even Jamatis have a Freedom Fighter wing now. Hilarious aint it?

 

[TopCat]

How can you complain civilian killing during war when you wanted Mujib to kill thousands during peace time in Bangladesh?????

You or Awami goons have no credibility moral or otherwise.

YOu dont have any clue what you talking about. 30 years of propaganda took its toll (somewhat) and one of the victim is you.

 

[idune]

YOu dont have any clue what you talking about. 30 years of propaganda took its toll (somewhat) and one of the victim is you.

Originally Posted by iajdani
If I were him, I would have finished the unfinished job that Muktis left in 1971. Mujib failed to do that, rest was all good. He needed to be more viscious than what you described above. He just loosened up a bit thats all.

From your own wish, Seikh Mujib should have killed more of his political opponents. View that widely held by awami league. I just exposed your and typical awami oxymoronic propaganda and real motive with people who killed during liberation war.

As I said you dont have moral or any credibility period. Only thing you have is NO SHAME.

 

[eastwatch]

There was no ethnic cleansing in vietnam. You know better than me, how people were killed here. In my previous post I did mention that there were no collateral damage or deaths so less injuries. The proof is 10 million refugee which were duly counted. And why only AL needs to count the body? Why not other people who ruled the country for decades bears the same responsibility? They are in froefront in enlisting bogus freedom fighter but not remembering those deaths. Even Jamatis have a Freedom Fighter wing now. Hilarious aint it?

It is not part of our discussion here how Jamaatis are telling of their freedom fighters, it is about the total number of deaths in 1971. A 30 year long war in Vietnam killed 1 to 2 million. Ethnic cleansic or not, a killing is a killing. 1992-1995 Bosnian ethnic cleansing are 97,000 after so much of killings there for a long 3 years and after so many mass graves were discovered. 1998-1999 Cosovo ethnic cleansing were about 10,000 deads. Even then their struggles are regarded as great or MAHAN.

It is only we who try to exaggerate the figure by 50 times, and thus make our sacrifice Un-great. But, whatever we claim, it does not receive recognition from the world community. BD govt should establish a separate independent commission to list up the names and addresses of all the war deads. Every village, Mahalla and Thana must have the list of their victims. Although it has been long 37 years, it is still possible to find out the truth. Why should the AL, the self-declared champion of liberation war, should shy away from this task? Is it because the cat will come out of the bag?

By the way, almost all of the refugees in 1971 were Hindus, and they as well as the known A. Leagures were the main victims of purge in 1971. There were very few Muslims among the refugees. But, all the freedom fighters as well as razakars were Muslims. There were, of course, known PATRIOT Awami leaders who never participated in a single conflict, lived in Theatre Road in luxury paid by the govt of India, some of whom were eliminated in the November 1975 Jail killings.

 

[Stumper]

Hey Guys

Can we come to the topic .... 2000+ views and only 50 votes!!

I believe SAARC is useless in its current form.. i accept INDIA is to be blamed for this.

 

[eastwatch]

Hey Guys

Can we come to the topic .... 2000+ views and only 50 votes!!

I believe SAARC is useless in its current form.. i accept INDIA is to be blamed for this.

There can be brotherly relationship with Pakistan, but not at the expense of SAARC. SAARC has a great future although India is a problem. Why India is not a solution, but a problem. Apart from being big and bullying in nature, Indian economy is so weak that it has no capacity to take import from its neighbours.

Rather, it wants to export to these poor neighbours. It means, India cannot be the locomotive to pull up the other SAARC countries. It is just the opposite than what should be. Indians do not have better purchasing power than its neighbours, it is another developing country that depends on exporting its goods to its neighbours for its own survival.

When and if Indian economic strength grows, it should play as a locomotive. However, I believe that the Indian mindset will remain unchanged. Its policy will remain 'begger thy neighbour.' But, even then SAARC should be kept in place. At least, it works as a platform where the regional leaders meet time to time and discuss issues.

Pakistan and BD live far away from each other without a common border. To forge a deep relationship without fixed target will not bring any better benefits than the SAARC platform can give. However, we have a common history for about 1000 yrs. Therefore, keeping SAARC intact, these two countries can develop a better relationship centered on trade and a common defence policy.

 

[Stumper]

There can be brotherly relationship with Pakistan, but not at the expense of SAARC. SAARC has a great future although India is a problem. Why India is not a solution, but a problem. Apart from being big and bullying in nature, Indian economy is so weak that it has no capacity to take import from its neighbours.

EastWatch: Kindly use the word "Bullying" sporadically. This forum needs some decorum. I have my own defination of BD, which i dont harp about. So, stop taking pot shot at some other country, in the guise of rational debate. Stick to your point. Dont get into name calling in every second post, if you can.

Regarding Indian economy being "Weak", can you elaborate please. Give me specific example. Just because i have deficit with you does not make me weak.
This is my field of interest. Give me your thought on other countries, on this point.

Rather, it wants to export to these poor neighbours. It means, India cannot be the locomotive to pull up the other SAARC countries. It is just the opposite than what should be. Indians do not have better purchasing power than its neighbours, it is another developing country that depends on exporting its goods to its neighbours for its own survival.

Man, do you really have any economic background? What non sense are you talking here? Are you kidding when you say we do not have purchasing power?

When and if Indian economic strength grows, it should play as a locomotive. However, I believe that the Indian mindset will remain unchanged. Its policy will remain 'begger thy neighbour.' But, even then SAARC should be kept in place. At least, it works as a platform where the regional leaders meet time to time and discuss issues.

As i said, don't take pot shot at my country. Stick to the topic and tell us whats your view on improving SAARC (apart from meet and discuss). All that you have done so far is to Blame everything square on India (i agree India is to be blamed for non performance of SAARC, but for different reasons)..

Pakistan and BD live far away from each other without a common border. To forge a deep relationship without fixed target will not bring any better benefits than the SAARC platform can give. However, we have a common history for about 1000 yrs. Therefore, keeping SAARC intact, these two countries can develop a better relationship centered on trade and a common defence policy.

Why need SAARC for better relationship with Pakistan? ... you dont need SAARC for that!

 

[Skies]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4378-india-support-iranian-saarc-membership.html
Okay alternatively it can be done to active SAARC by include Iran, China, Burma, others in east.

Those are dormant / inactive; not dead. Introduction of Iran would definitely infuse activity in SAARC, and countervail India's asymmetry somewhat.

Well India wants Iran. It's good. Burma and China should join here which will make BD benefited, definitely, by building BD-China highway. So if we can join them then SAARC will not remain an inactive.

 

[sarthak]

cut the bull crap and take it somewhere else. We know what india is upto.

Then do somethinhg about it rather than blabbering over here. This doesn't help you , neither does it help us.
I'm tired of ur awami stooge crap. You are too obsessed with it and no one can do anything about that. Once you " cut the bull crap" , you will see much more sensible discussions

 

[eastwatch]

There was no ethnic cleansing in vietnam. You know better than me, how people were killed here. In my previous post I did mention that there were no collateral damage or deaths so less injuries. The proof is 10 million refugee which were duly counted. And why only AL needs to count the body? Why not other people who ruled the country for decades bears the same responsibility? They are in froefront in enlisting bogus freedom fighter but not remembering those deaths. Even Jamatis have a Freedom Fighter wing now. Hilarious aint it?

Ethnic cleansing or not, it is physically impossible to kill 3 million people in that short span of time, when the Pak army themselves were cornered by the Muktis and by the flood waters from all sides. Please do not deal with lies.

I must ask were we the stupidiest of all the nations so that the army would come and kill us by some SILENT machine guns one by one, and we would not know how to run away. Do you know how many people make 3 million? Go to a stadium to see the crowd watching a football match. It is less than 30,000. Is it possible to kill a hundred stadium full of people? You must be naive.

And where are the wounded ones. By all the examples of wars and destructions, there must at least be another 9 million who were wounded. Where are they, do you find any? Go to Vietnam, you will still see the wounded even after many decades.

There is another point. If there were so many millions killed then why there are time to time newspaper reports in the month of December that in such and such villages, people pay tributes to 5, 10 or 20 of their war heroes. May I ask why the villagers cry for only 20 deaths when the figure should be 20,000?

It was your AL who claims that 3million figure and it was AL that came to power after 1971. So, it should be the duty of AL to count the figure. Still it is not doing that and making false propaganda. History must be based on truths and not on propaganda and lies.

 

[Contrarian]

With due respect to those who are arguing that it is India stalling the SAARC. Let me inform you that India has only stalled the SAARC meet when there has been a serious problem for India. I believe that is somewhat justified.

Secondly, as in case of economic integration, it is Pakistan which has been more than dragging its feet. They are seriously opposed to a free trade agreement with India. That is why they are opposing the economic integration of SAARC because that will include India and Pakistan. They dont want SAFTA implemented.

 

[toxic_pus]

Ethnic cleansing or not, it is physically impossible to kill 3 million people in that short span of time, when the Pak army themselves were cornered by the Muktis and by the flood waters from all sides. Please do not deal with lies.

I must ask were we the stupidiest of all the nations so that the army would come and kill us by some SILENT machine guns one by one, and we would not know how to run away. Do you know how many people make 3 million? Go to a stadium to see the crowd watching a football match. It is less than 30,000. Is it possible to kill a hundred stadium full of people? You must be naive.

And where are the wounded ones. By all the examples of wars and destructions, there must at least be another 9 million who were wounded. Where are they, do you find any? Go to Vietnam, you will still see the wounded even after many decades.

There is another point. If there were so many millions killed then why there are time to time newspaper reports in the month of December that in such and such villages, people pay tributes to 5, 10 or 20 of their war heroes. May I ask why the villagers cry for only 20 deaths when the figure should be 20,000?

It was your AL who claims that 3million figure and it was AL that came to power after 1971. So, it should be the duty of AL to count the figure. Still it is not doing that and making false propaganda. History must be based on truths and not on propaganda and lies.

These kind of arguments are called argument from incredulity. It is an argument that goes like, 'I can't believe it can be done, and therefore, it didn't happen'. Instead of telling that it is physically impossible, tell us why is it 'physically impossible' to do so.

As with the question of running away from machine guns, one would, if one could. Pak platoons would first surround the villages to ensure that no one escaped, then they would line up the villagers and shoot. They would then burn down the village. Then they would move on to the next village.

The reason why Bangladeshis don't have so many injuries like the Viatnamese, is because, the Bengalis, as opposed to Vietnamese, faced a systematic massacre. In a massacre there are no injuries. There are only deads. Ask the Jews.