Polish company confirms deliveries of RIBs to Pakistan special forces

[Irfan Baloch]

It is sad we didn't build them at home, we could have!!
Also if inducted in the number as given by above report, ie 30 boats, it was not a small order at all. Should have built them at home and equipped these with a 12.7mm gun and may be also rocket launcher!

it not economically viable and technically possible to build every single thing in-house. there are only 2 or 3 countries in the world with centuries of technical knowledge base and political stability and economic wealth to achieve that.

rather than trying to imitate every single trade and ending up with low quality half baked product we are better off to concentrate on only some elements and seek the partnership of our trusted allies who excel in other areas to end with a far better, cheaper and superior product.

these boats are no big deal and Pakistan can build them but it will mean the money will have to come out of another pot, subs? cruise missiles? bigger boats? etc?

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

not only pakistan, it is banned to every developing nations. in any military their resources are used effectively. 50% of equipments used by US navy seals are banned from sale.



it is banned for all asian countries, not just for pakistan. it is not just plastic its is made of special materials for reducing its weight, and also it is advanced propulsion systems.

Really? Didnt know about it.

 

[Thorough Pro]

You are arguing with a finance guru!

Dear, there is difference between three times a day bread and defense equipment!

30 boats is a significant number for a defense machine. You don't get to order 1000 to set up a manufacturing plant!!

I never advocated making a production facility for acquiring 3-4 ZDK-03, or even for a couple of squadrons of FC-20 which is more then 30 planes for sure).
But this, it is not something involving very high end technology and could have been easily handled in house. It is more about policies then the difficulties or financial aspects of building them here is Karachi or anywhere in Pakistan.
I mean this do not require even a production line or something you can call a production FACILITY. this was low end stuff and we must at least take care of our such needs by our own.

 

[Zarvan]

it not economically viable and technically possible to build every single thing in-house. there are only 2 or 3 countries in the world with centuries of technical knowledge base and political stability and economic wealth to achieve that.

rather than trying to imitate every single trade and ending up with low quality half baked product we are better off to concentrate on only some elements and seek the partnership of our trusted allies who excel in other areas to end with a far better, cheaper and superior product.

these boats are no big deal and Pakistan can build them but it will mean the money will have to come out of another pot, subs? cruise missiles? bigger boats? etc?

Sir they didn't gave us for free Sir we spent money so you are trying to say it would cost us more in building these ships in Pakistan than to buy them ??????????????????

 

[XYON]

In short, YES!

Sir they didn't gave us for free Sir we spent money so you are trying to say it would cost us more in building these ships in Pakistan than to buy them ??????????????????

 

[BloggerPakistani]

Pakistan should now try to made these in home. rather than to keep exporting such things

 

[HariPrasad]

Congrats Guys!!!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

duplicated due to site problem

 

[Irfan Baloch]

duplicated due to site problem

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir they didn't gave us for free Sir we spent money so you are trying to say it would cost us more in building these ships in Pakistan than to buy them ??????????????????

you got that right my dear
its the setup cost and the opportunity cost that outweighs the limited number of units we will produce ourselves. to justify such expense, we must have domestic or international market.

did you get me or lost me?

ok let me give you a classical example

recall our Toyota RKR jeep

Toyota cancelled producing this version because Pakistan Army was its only customer and its demand was "only" 5000 units a year. which according to Toyota was not viable to keep the plant running for this model. so they cancelled it about 15 or 20 years ago. so whatever Jeeps you see are the last of their kind.

how many ships/ boats will we be needing to justify entire assembly line and factories for these ships? if the only "in house" thing will be the flag and the markings then be my guest and go ahead with it and source everything else from the international market otherwise you will have a very grumpy unemployed workforce once the demand is no longer there (ignoring the closed down assembly and billions spent on it)

 

[Arsalan]

it not economically viable and technically possible to build every single thing in-house. there are only 2 or 3 countries in the world with centuries of technical knowledge base and political stability and economic wealth to achieve that.

rather than trying to imitate every single trade and ending up with low quality half baked product we are better off to concentrate on only some elements and seek the partnership of our trusted allies who excel in other areas to end with a far better, cheaper and superior product.

these boats are no big deal and Pakistan can build them but it will mean the money will have to come out of another pot, subs? cruise missiles? bigger boats? etc?

Dear Sir, i totally agree. You have been around here for too long and i guess you can remember me always arguing with people who say that we should build FC-20 or Z-10 or submarines or other such stuff in house. I understand that this is not financially viable, even it is not technically possible. Getting such a large workforce trained to build a sophisticated AWACS!! You wont never see me asking that Pakistan should build 3 U-214 in-house. I understand that technology and technical difficulties and level of expertise involved in this.

But my point here was that this is a simple boat. Something that is not very high end, nothing compared to fighter planes or attack helicopter so technically it wont have been much of a concern to get a few people assigned to this. Also this wont need any separate special production line of machinery. Building missile crafts at home and getting boats imported do not makes much sense to me. I mean, we are not talking about destroyers or submarines. These are simple boats, inflatable material that can be sourced, a propulsion system and a gun mounted on to it. Other gadgets include GPS and radio. Also an other factor was the number in which these are being inducted. 30 is a good enough number for such system. These are not things that will require separate independent manufacturing installation, factories and large production lines!

Maybe these were offered relatively lower rates, or may be since the Third Marine battalion was commissioned back in March, they wanted these to be up and running quickly. Or may be these are actually REALLY TOUGH to build and i am underestimating the amount of SKILL required to get this done.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

These are simple boats, inflatable material that can be sourced, a propulsion system and a gun mounted on to it. Other gadgets include GPS and radio. Also an other factor was the number in which these are being inducted. 30 is a good enough number for such system. These are not things that will require separate independent manufacturing installation, factories and large production lines!

Maybe these were offered relatively lower rates, or may be since the Third Marine battalion was commissioned back in March, they wanted these to be up and running quickly. Or may be these are actually REALLY TOUGH to build and i am underestimating the amount of SKILL required to get this done.

your post answers all the possible questions and you raised valid assumptions as well.
I must clarify that there is a clear difference between a commercial/ civilian use of an item and the military grade item.
from utility items, to weapons and vehicles, the military grade items are far more robust, over engineered, built to sustain abuse and tailored for extreme conditions.


sorry for the lack of examples, imagine a motor engine that will be mutli fuel, still working while leaking or damaged. so its very much possible that these purpose built boats are made with war conditions in mind not just a vacation cruise in the blue waters next to the Burj al Arab or Hawaii.


also remember that its Pakistan we are talking about, where the things are not really transparent and there are personal favours involved as well. I am not suggesting commissions here but lets be honest our choices are not always always on honest feasibilities and needs.

== mods, please delete my posts 38, 39 which were posted repeatedly while the site was going down

 

[Arsalan]

your post answers all the possible questions and you raised valid assumptions as well.
I must clarify that there is a clear difference between a commercial/ civilian use of an item and the military grade item.
from utility items, to weapons and vehicles, the military grade items are far more robust, over engineered, built to sustain abuse and tailored for extreme conditions.


sorry for the lack of examples, imagine a motor engine that will be mutli fuel, still working while leaking or damaged. so its very much possible that these purpose built boats are made with war conditions in mind not just a vacation cruise in the blue waters next to the Burj al Arab or Hawaii.


also remember that its Pakistan we are talking about, where the things are not really transparent and there are personal favours involved as well. I am not suggesting commissions here but lets be honest our choices are not always always on honest feasibilities and needs.

hmm, that might be an issue as well. You can never be sure. Not only here in Pakistan but also in many other countries as well. However without evidence, as you said, i wont also point it that way.

So this concludes it. At end of the day, the boats are a good addition and most probably will serve with marines. Pakistan military seem to be quite serious about building marines strength. Hope we all get to see some real progress made in this department. Though our aim is not power projection but this is also not essentially the only job a marine can do

 

[Irfan Baloch]

hmm, that might be an issue as well. You can never be sure. Not only here in Pakistan but also in many other countries as well. However without evidence, as you said, i wont also point it that way.

So this concludes it. At end of the day, the boats are a good addition and most probably will serve with marines. Pakistan military seem to be quite serious about building marines strength. Hope we all get to see some real progress made in this department. Though our aim is not power projection but this is also not essentially the only job a marine can do

sir creek will see a sea/shore based version of Siachin war with India. whether we like it or not Indians will keep expanding until they are not checked and they got the muscle to harass and intrude in these waters.

 

[Inception-06]

sir creek will see a sea/shore based version of Siachin war with India.

That is interesting, what signs we have at the moment of a " see a sea/shore based version of Siachin war with India" ?