Police kill two militants in India's capital

[Goodperson]

What does that have to do with anything?

In India's case - the IM claimed the bombing and the LeT denied any connection with it and even condemned it as an attack on civilians.

Those are two different scenarios.

It was reply regarding credibility of Terrorist organizations.

 

[Spring Onion]

Azamgarh: Den of terror or victim of backwardness?
23 Sep 2008, 0037 hrs IST, Manjari Mishra & Binay Singh,TNN

AZAMGARH: Two dead, eight caught, 10 on the run and still counting — the fast-paced events in Delhi have hit Saraimeer, the shiny oasis in this desert of backwardness, real hard. Gone is the open belligerence of residents when in August an enraged Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, exhorted them to come out on the streets for Abu Bashir, the prime accused in Ahmedabad blast, and free him from the "devils in khaki". ( Watch )

The mood now is of disbelief and deep shock. In Sanjarpur, Shadab Ahmed, the father of Saif, one of the Delhi blast suspects, held court in front of his house on Sunday. There was a crowd of around 150 sympathizers.

Tempers started rising as a Qualis and a Scorpio arrived. Two former SP MLAs, Alam Badi and Wasim Ahmed, got out and made their way towards 'Mister' as Ahmed, a former district vice president of SP, is known.

The duo had obviously come to express their solidarity with Ahmed. "I will hold back my tears till justice is done to my family," Ahmed's voice quivered with anger. They counsel patience. One of them said the inspector killed in the crossfire in Delhi was a fake encounter specialist. It was nothing but a frame up, he says, waving his fists in the air, and the crowd agrees.
Atif, the alleged Indian Mujahideen mastermind who was killed in the encounter, is from Saraimeer. His house wore a deserted look. The main gate was half shut and apart from a few media persons, nobody was around. Even the neighbours were keeping away. "Whatever has happened is extremely unfortunate," said Badruddin, who lives in the same lane. Others flatly refused to comment. You sense eyes behind shuttered windows keeping a vigil on what's going on.

The fear that the suspects could include one of their beloved family members is gnawing at their hearts. The Delhi blast and its aftermath may or may not have accomplished much for the perpetrators, but they have left a deep mark in people's minds here.

Known for its communal amity and brotherhood since the time of Maulana Shibli Nomani, the famous theologist, philosopher and founder of Shibli National College in 1946, the Hindu-Muslim divide in Azamgarh is today palpable.

Muslims openly talk of the dual-faced law, of brutal enforcing agencies and "gair majhebi" fanatics, while Hindus tell you about the growing threat from bearded "jehadis".

"The entire drama in Delhi was stage managed," said Dr Iftikhar Ahmed, principal of Shibli College, once a noted centre for secular learning. Atif, who was killed in the encounter, was just out of high school. "Do you think a lad of 18-19, who barely stepped out of Azamgarh, would suddenly become such a dreaded terrorist within months of reaching Delhi?" he asked. The government, he said, was under "POTA pressure". "They are simply trying to prove that even without POTA they can achieve a lot, and these youngsters have become scapegoats in this murky politics," he argued.

Ahmed seems to have utter disdain for police and politicians. In 2002, the principal was named in an FIR that accused him of burning the national flag and stomping on it, while hoisting the Pakistani flag in the college. The "conspiracy hatched by Hindu hardliners" left him bitter and isolated, he said. Fortunately he could count on a few friends, most of whom happen to be Hindus.

Azamgarh, he points out, is the only divisional headquarters that does not have a university, a medical college, engineering college, or any institute worth mention. There are no industries. Until Kaifiat Express was flagged off five years ago, courtesy the efforts of Kaifi and Shabana Azmi, there was no broad gauge railway link from Azamgarh. The roads are for all practical purposes non-existent.

"Successive governments have only manipulated minorities, but done nothing for their uplift," said Ahmed. "If there is discontent among the youth, do you blame them?" he said. "However, taking arms is the last thing they would do," he insisted.

Mohd Ibrahim Khan, a brick kiln owner from Bijarva, echoed similar sentiments. "Azamgarh is the nursery of terrorism, they claim, but what is the address of this nursery? In the last 65 years I have not come across a single such hatchery," he said angrily.

Many Hindus don't buy this. "Muslims in the pockets like Saraimeer, Mubarakpur, Bilariaganj, Larganj, Vindawal, Kotela, Anwak, Bishan, Mohammedpur have always spelled trouble for the majority community," says Jai Chand, a trader from Azamgarh chowk market. The government, he said, has always fought shy of investigating into the funding of the mushrooming madrassas. Jai Chand singled out the sprawling madrassa on the Varanasi-Azamgarh highway, which he claims was managed by "people in Dubai".


Ajay Rai, a lawyer in the district court, talks about the Tablighi Jamaat conclave held in Saraimeer last December. He claimed lakhs of delegates from the world over attended it. However, the agenda has been a closely guarded secret till today. Rajendra Singh, another lawyer, read much into the Shibli College staff's refusal to sing Vande Mataram on Independence Day.

Soft spoken Mohd Safi Ansari, a former professor of chemistry, is anguished by the recent happenings. Azamgarh, he points out, has produced intellectuals, professionals and academicians. A large chunk of the AMU faculty in the '60s hailed from Azamgarh, he said. "Shibli College guest house was the favourite haunt of freedom fighters including Motilal Nehru. My birthplace has fallen to an evil eye," he said, with feeling.
Ansari quoted his grandfather Iqbal Suhail, a prominent poet and successful lawyer from Azamgarh, "Is khittare Azamgarh par me magar faizan-e tajjalli hai. Yaksar jo zarra yehan se uthata hai, wo nayyare azam hota hai," (This Azamgarh is the land of blessed. Even a tiny particle which rises from here carries the potential to become the brightest star).

Should we call it shooting star now?


Azamgarh: Den of terror or victim of backwardness?-India-The Times of India

 

[Goodperson]

Azamgarh: Den of terror or victim of backwardness?
2

Should we call it shooting star now?


Azamgarh: Den of terror or victim of backwardness?-India-The Times of India

The Police official did die and cremated, his junior got injured how can that be faked?

 

[Always Neutral]

The Police official did die and cremated, his junior got injured how can that be faked?

It can be faked as sometimes in their hurry to stage it two cops in a crowded area can shoot each other. I am not saying that this a fake encounter but of course its a botched up operation as no attempt to isolate and render them unconcious was made and the cops in Asia are now as trigger happy as US or Europe but without the checks and balances in place.

For eg any operation like this would be automatically investigated by an independant commission which would check whether the police followed its own laid down procedures and if the killing could have been avoided.

If you check nearly all your encounter specialist have been found to be engaging in fake encounters or have been to be in bed with the criminals and checks and balances must be built into your system to curb these Rambos.

Regards

 

[Spring Onion]

I am not going to pass any judegment but as Sir Always said there are possibilities.
I would not have doubted it but after recieving an email from an Indian i am sure that there are strong posibility that the two people might have been killed wrongly.

Here i share the email from an Indian as it is as i recieved without editing it.
------------
"They are Shaeed. As an Indian I apologize for the wrong killing.



Who killed Police Officer Sharma?


Who killed Police Officer? When he smashed the front door of the suspected terrorists’ room, immediately the terrorists shot and killed the police man! Police story is that!!



But Sharma has no wounds at front side of his body, but back side. It is clear that somebody from back side shot him and killed.



Who was behind him? Obviously there was no one but Police men. Due to some reasons (an enquiry will bring the truth) they knowingly or mistakenly killed their leading policeman.

Now they have no other choice except to charge the students who are residing in the room. If the police arrested the students, the students will expose the truth. Then the police shoot and killed the innocent students. Then they kept a AK47 and Pistols and proclaimed to media that they killed very hardcore terrorists


The story ended, but the loopholes bring the truth. A clear photo shows that the encounter specialist Sharma has no wounds on body except his backside.


Home Minister Shivraj Patil, decline to comment on police encounter, when press asked about the incident, on the same day. It means the encounter story was a fiction., created by Shivraj Patil or MK Narayanan or the police officers who accidentally killed Sharma. No one is beyond doubt.


Prime Minister should oust Shivraj Patil and MK Narayanan, security advisor, from their posts and an enquiry is needed by a sitting Supreme Court Judge.



Say the truth dear countrymen. Say the truth dear media men. Try to bring the truth out. And one day it will come out.



Prathiba"

 

[Goodperson]

It can be faked as sometimes in their hurry to stage it two cops in a crowded area can shoot each other. I am not saying that this a fake encounter but of course its a botched up operation as no attempt to isolate and render them unconcious was made and the cops in Asia are now as trigger happy as US or Europe but without the checks and balances in place.

For eg any operation like this would be automatically investigated by an independant commission which would check whether the police followed its own laid down procedures and if the killing could have been avoided.

If you check nearly all your encounter specialist have been found to be engaging in fake encounters or have been to be in bed with the criminals and checks and balances must be built into your system to curb these Rambos.

Regards

Think negatively everything is possible the officer was himself leading the raid. Eyewitnes confirmed firing from both sides. Indian media gives opinions from all sides.

 

[Flintlock]

Think negatively everything is possible the officer was himself leading the raid. Eyewitnes confirmed firing from both sides. Indian media gives opinions from all sides.

AN is being rather conspicuously "neutral", as he sometimes does for obvious reasons.

 

[Spring Onion]

Well ALways what you say. Both of these persons have replied and avoided to comment on my post.


The question is if they believe in the version of police story then it means Mr Sharma should have any wound on front of his body but he was shot dead from back it means someone killed him from outside.
The house was cordoned by police from all sides. then howcome the two boys who were killed managed to shot him from back.

 

[Always Neutral]

I am not going to pass any judegment but as Sir Always said there are possibilities.
I would not have doubted it but after recieving an email from an Indian i am sure that there are strong posibility that the two people might have been killed wrongly.



But Sharma has no wounds at front side of his body, but back side. It is clear that somebody from back side shot him and killed.



Prathiba"

Dear Jana,

It does not matter from the bullet wounds location as at short range in 99.9% there will be entry and exit wounds. The person who has written the email is being emotive with questionable intentions.

Ballastics can easily prove what happened as eyewitness account even if true can be misleading ?

It should be very easy to verify where the AK 47 round came from and was it fired by the terrorists ?

I am just pointing out that before gunning down someone they could have used CS gas etc or gone for other methods of capturing them. Further it should be mandatory after any encounter a fair and just inquiry is held and that will help dispel all rumors.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

AN is being rather conspicuously "neutral", as he sometimes does for obvious reasons.

I think you are being simplistic. Please check how many encounters have been stage managed and later exposed by the courts. I am still saying whats wrong in having an inquiry after any ecounter ?

Regards

 

[Spring Onion]

Dear Jana,

It does not matter from the bullet wounds location as at short range in 99.9% there will be entry and exit wounds. The person who has written the email is being emotive with questionable intentions.

Ballastics can easily prove what happened as eyewitness account even if true can be misleading ?

It should be very easy to verify where the AK 47 round came from and was it fired by the terrorists ?

I am just pointing out that before gunning down someone they could have used CS gas etc or gone for other methods of capturing them. Further it should be mandatory after any encounter a fair and just inquiry is held and that will help dispel all rumors.

Regards

Yes Sir possible thats why i did not pass judegment like these men here.

Given the history of such encounter and the opinion the India media is giving on this one do raise questions about this encounter as well.

 

[Goodperson]

I think you are being simplistic. Please check how many encounters have been stage managed and later exposed by the courts. I am still saying whats wrong in having an inquiry after any ecounter ?

Regards

Nothing wrong in inquiry if the case is doubtful. Courts will punish the guilty.

 

[Always Neutral]

Nothing wrong in inquiry if the case is doubtful. Courts will punish the guilty.

Dear GP,

How can you ask the Police which carried out the encounter to be objective ?

Regards

IPCC concludes investigation into death of 16-year-old boy – Brighton


Print Document19 September 2008IPCC concludes investigation into death of 16-year-old boy – Brighton
The Independent Police Complaints Commission’s managed investigation into the death of a 16-year-old boy in Brighton has concluded that there is no evidence of any criminal or conduct matters by the officers involved.

On 1 December 2007, Max Weston (16 yrs) from Brighton, had been out for the evening with friends and had been drinking. At about 9.30pm, two police officers, who were in a police car patrolling the area, stopped the group of young people on Prince’s Road and began to speak to them. When it became clear the boys had been drinking, the officers decided to search them. During the search of Max, it became increasingly clear how drunk he was and so one of the officers decided to take him home as he was in a vulnerable state.

However, before she got the opportunity to do so, Max ran away along Ditchling Road.

The officer ran after Max but he was running faster and disappeared out of her view around the side of some flats in Ditchling Court.

When the officer reached the flats, she began to search for Max but could not see him.

Other officers were called to the flats and the search for Max continued. Nine minutes later, he was discovered on Hollingdean Lane, about 30 feet below a wall at the back of the flats in Ditchling Court. The wall at the rear of Ditchling Court is about waist height.

A police officer began to give Max first aid until an ambulance arrived and took him to the Royal Sussex County Hospital, before he was transferred to the Hurstwood Park Neurological Unit in Haywards Heath.

However, on 6 December 2007, Max Weston died.

A Home Office post mortem was conducted on 12 December 2007 which found that Max had died as a result of pneumonia following a head injury that was consistent with a fall from a height. There was no evidence of injury caused by a blow with an instrument or signs of any other kind of physical assault.

At the inquest today, Friday 19 September 2008, a 10 person jury returned a narrative verdict that Max Weston died on 6 December 2007 as a result of head injuries sustained on 1 December 2007 between approximately 21.40 and 21.52 in an accidental fall from height into Hollingdean Lane, in circumstances where he was under the influence of alcohol which had been purchased from licensed premises and he had been involved in a brief chase.

An IPCC spokesperson said: “Max’s death was a tragic incident and his family have been through an incredibly difficult time. We recognised that this may be difficult for Max’s family to hear, but these cases are also hard for the officers involved and I believe it is important that we recognise publicly that they were not at fault.”

 

[Goodperson]

But here Max could not run,

Anyways Sharma was a decorated officer and role model for his collegues and juniors, Even if you believe something was fishy why are they not demanding inquiry or has his family done so ?

 

[Spring Onion]

Civil rights teams visit Jamia Nagar, questions police version

Submitted by kashif on 21 September 2008 - 6:35pm. Crime/Terrorism Indian Muslim
By Mumtaz Alam Falahi, TwoCircles.net

New Delhi: There is something more than that meets the eye in the Jamia Nagar police encounter case and that’s why civil rights groups and human rights organizations are visiting the area and tying to get the true picture by talking to neighbours and eyewitnesses.Of all what is most disturbing is that those described as terrorists by the police have valid rent agreement and submitted a form with the Jamia Nagar Police Station for the verification of their credentials.

According to the rent agreement and police verification form (a copy of the documents are with TwoCircles.net), Atif Ameen, who was killed in the encounter, had got the flat on rent in his name. The rent agreement was signed on August 25, 2008. The police verification form says there were six people living in the flat. They are Atif, Zeeshan Ahmad, Md. Saif, Md Sajid (24 years), Md Khalid and Md Sajid (20 years).

People say if they were terrorists, why would they seek their verification?



Human rights activists visiting the Jamia Nagar


Finding some loopholes in the police version of the encounter on Friday (September 19), some human rights groups have visited the area and talked to locals and neighbours to get the whole picture.

Today around one dozen senior civil activists from various human rights organizations visited the area and also the building L-18 in Batala House, near Khalilullah Masjid in Jamia Nagar area.

The police did not allow the team to go into the building.

They talked to 12-15 people and remained there for around 2 hours. Several questions and doubts came up during the talks. The most doubtful is the escape theory of the police. The team made a round of the building and found it impossible for one to escape when there are policemen at the gate, the only exit of the building.


The team members also met families of Sajid and Atif, two alleged terrorist killed in the encounter. The families have reportedly demanded fair enquiry into the encounter. One of the team members told TwoCircles.net that the family members said they would not question the encounter if their children were found involved in terrorist activities.

The committee will come up with a report on the visit in a day or two. The team comprised Prof. N K Bhattacharya, Prof Ish Mishra, Advocate Prashant Bhushan, Advocate N D Pancholi (two from PUCL), Shahna from PUDR, Md Mahtab Alam from APCR and representatives from Janhastakshep.

Also,On September 20 a team of civil rights activists, academicians and journalists under the leadership of noted social activist Shabnam Hashmi visited the site of the police operation against alleged terrorists. Two alleged terrorists Atif and Sajid, along with Mohan Chand Sharma, an inspector of the Delhi Police's Special Cell, died in the operation while a third Saif was arrested from the building.

According to a statement by Hashmi, on the basis of the team’s interactions with the local residents, eyewitnesses and the reports which have appeared in the media, the team posed the following questions:

1) It has been widely reported (and not refuted by the Police) that in early August this year Atif, who is described by the Delhi Police as the mastermind behind the recent terrorist bombings in Jaipur, Ahmedabad and Delhi, underwent a police verification exercise along with his four roommates in order to rent the apartment they were staying in Jamia Nagar. All the five youth living in the apartment submitted to the Delhi police their personal details, including permanent address, driving license details, address of the house they previously stayed in, all of which were found to be accurate.

Is it conceivable that the alleged kingpin behind the terrorist Indian Mujahideen outfit would have wanted to undergo a police verification – for whatever purpose – just a week after the Ahmedabad blasts and a month before the bombings in Delhi?

2) The four-storey house L-18 in Jamia Nagar, where the alleged terrorists were staying, has only one access point, through the stair case, which is covered by an iron grill. It is impossible to leave the house except from the staircase. By all reports, the staircase was taken over by the Special Cell and/ or other agencies during the counter-terror operation. The house, indeed the entire block, was cordoned off at the time of the operation.

How then was it possible, as claimed by the police, for two alleged terrorists to escape the premises during the police operation?



The only exit point of building L-18

3) The media has quoted 'police sources' as having informed them that the Special Cell was fully aware about the presence of dreaded terrorists, involved in the bombings in Jaipur, Ahmedabad and Delhi, staying in the apartment that was raided.

Why was the late Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma, a veteran of dozens of encounter operations, the only officer in the operation not wearing a bullet proof vest? Was this due to over-confidence or is there something else to his mysterious death during the operation? Will the forensic report of the bullets that killed Inspector Sharma be made public?

4) There are reports that towards the end of the counter-terror operation, some policemen climbed on the roof of L-18 and fired several rounds in the air. Other policemen were seen breaking windows and even throwing flower pots to the ground from flats adjacent or opposite to L-18. Why was the police firing in the air and why did it indulge in destruction of property around L-18 after the encounter?




5) The police officials claim that an AK-47 and pistols were recovered from L-18.

What was the weapon that killed Inspector Sharma? Was the AK-47 used at all and by whom? Going by some reports that have appeared (see 'Times of India', 20.09.08), the AK-47s have been used by the police only. Is it not strange that alleged terrorists did not use a more deadly and sophisticated weapon like the AK-47, which they purportedly possessed, preferring to use pistols?


The team felt that there are far too many loose ends in the current story of the police encounter at L-18 in Jamia Nagar. They demanded a fair, impartial and independent probe into the incident at the earliest to answer the above questions as also any other ones that arise from the contradictions of the case.
The team included social activists Satya Sivaraman, Manisha Sethi, Tanweer Fazal, Arshad Alam and Pallavi Deka.

[Photos by TwoCircles.net]

Civil rights teams visit Jamia Nagar, questions police version | TwoCircles.net