PM Modi greets Bangladeshis on Ramzan, speaks to PM Hasina

[I S I]

that is why we created bangladesh, saved lives of crores of bangalis from the hands of butchers , we arrested 93000 of them , released later because of geneva convention.
this all in presence of ISI the no.1 .

Death by a thousand cuts. Ouch
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/2-se...-got-trapped-during-ongoing-operation.664164/

The revenge is still ongoing & will go on.

 

[GHALIB]

Death by a thousand cuts. Ouch
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/2-se...-got-trapped-during-ongoing-operation.664164/

The revenge is still ongoing & will go on.

lol very little price for killing terrorists . keep trying .

 

[jamahir]

Because we need to fix these problems not because what BD or Pakistan posters think rather we should be apologetic to posters like you and @GHALIB.

Thank you for the gesture.

And you can add @The_Showstopper and our new member @Naofumi to the list.

For me comparing our secularism in worst form is not even comparable to any Islamic nation

Well, in Progressive Muslim-majority countries such as Tunisia, Algeria, pre-2011 Libya, Syria and pre-2003 Iraq the situation was not bad at all. These are / were largely secular countries.

There was a Syrian Christian member here some years ago, @Syrian Lion, who once that before the 2011 war the religion of a citizen wasn't that visible and only during cultural events such as weddings or funerals would religion become apparent. And Christians are part of the government and military.

In Tunisia there was a law passed some years ago that allowed Muslim women to marry non-Muslims.

In Iraq too Christians were a contributing part of the society. The late Tariq Azia who was a Christian, served as Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister during the Saddam years.

Libya before 2011 had ties with Churches in the Vatican and England.

Other Muslim-majority countries should learn from these countries.

Because even in worst case scenario, there are atrocities in Indian who are minorities, our Indian Muslims can go to the court can fight as equals....Here a christian Sonia Gandhi can be a PM

Yes, that I agree. Though in the general society there is still inter-religious discord.

When any posters from Muslim nations calls about minorities, i aways think about middle east and Afganistan..

Afghanistan is a mess. In the 80s an Afghan went to space and stayed aboard the Soviet space station Mir. But now...

 

[I S I]

lol very little price for killing terrorists . keep trying .

Good that you too acknowledge your soldiers are terrorists.

 

[Naofumi]

Thank you for the gesture.

And you can add @The_Showstopper and our new member @Naofumi to the list.

Thanks but don't you think that this @GHALIB is a fake Muslim?

For me comparing our secularism in worst form is not even comparable to any Islamic nation...

This attitude will be harmful in the long run. Hindus will find themselves explaining how India is a peaceful country somewhat like Muslims from war-torn countries do

Well, in Progressive Muslim-majority countries such as Tunisia, Algeria, pre-2011 Libya, Syria and pre-2003 Iraq the situation was not bad at all. These are / were largely secular countries.

While Ba'athism is secular, it regularly draws populist support from Islamism. Tunisia is a glowing example, Algeria was secular too but military junta likewise Libya.
The best secular Muslim example is that of Turkey and probably some European states, Indonesia (except the Islamist Aceh province) is also comparably secular. @Indos

.Every damn sane Indian will admit that we have a monster in the room..If we can kill person based on what kind meat he kept in his fridge, then it is defly a problem....But does that mean, i should be apologetic to these poster of Pakistan and BD....Heck no....Because we need to fix these problems not because what BD or Pakistan posters think rather we should be apologetic to posters like you and @GHALIB. For me comparing our secularism in worst form is not even comparable to any Islamic nation...Because even in worst case scenario, there are atrocities in Indian who are minorities, our Indian Muslims can go to the court can fight as equals....Here a christian Sonia Gandhi can be a PM and Kalamji can be a president...Can you even think of these people who always finds execuses in Indian secualrism, can give equality in constitution to Non Muslims?

Legally equal is not equal, constitution is a piece of paper after all, for example - no Hindu is arrested till now in Delhi pogrom while Muslims are being arrested in a spree. For the "apologetic", it works both ways, you can't accuse them for their minority's treatment too.

 

[jamahir]

Thanks but don't you think that this @GHALIB is a fake Muslim?

To be honest I haven't seen many of his posts to make that judgement yet.

While Ba'athism is secular, it regularly draws populist support from Islamism.

You are right actually.

In Iraq, the supposedly killed high-profile Ba'ath commander, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, used to be the commander of the Sufi militia Naqshbandi Army.

In Syria, Bashar al Assad regularly pays homage to various Sunni, Shia and Christian mosques and leaders.

The best secular Muslim example is that of Turkey

Well, there is a complication here. President Erdogan's AK Party is connected with the Muslim Brotherhood. It is said that the 2015 bombing of a rally in Ankara was the handiwork of AK Party :

On 10 October 2015 at 10:04 local time (EEST) in Ankara, the capital city of Turkey, two bombs were detonated outside Ankara Central railway station. With a death toll of 109 civilians, the attack surpassed the 2013 Reyhanlı bombings as the deadliest terror attack in modern Turkish history. Another 500 people were injured. Censorship monitoring group Turkey Blocks identified nationwide slowing of social media services in the aftermath of the blasts, described by rights group Human Rights Watch as an "extrajudicial" measure to restrict independent media coverage of the incident.

The bombs appeared to target a "Labour, Peace and Democracy" rally organised by the Confederation of Progressive Trade Unions of Turkey (DİSK), the Union of Chambers of Turkish Engineers and Architects (TMMOB), the Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP), the Turkish Medical Association (TTB) and the Confederation of Public Workers' Unions (KESK). The peace march was held to protest against the growing conflict between the Turkish Armed Forces and the separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). The incident occurred 21 days before the scheduled 1 November general election.

So there are still some undercurrents in Turkey :

Indonesia (except the Islamist Aceh province) is also comparably secular.

That's what @Nike told me.

 

[Naofumi]

Well, there is a complication here. President Erdogan's AK Party is connected with the Muslim Brotherhood. It is said that the 2015 bombing of a rally in Ankara was the handiwork of AK Party :

I meant the Kemalist Turkey, not the Erdogan's.

 

[jamahir]

I meant the Kemalist Turkey, not the Erdogan's.

Then you are right.

 

[Nike]

To be honest I haven't seen many of his posts to make that judgement yet.



You are right actually.

In Iraq, the supposedly killed high-profile Ba'ath commander, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, used to be the commander of the Sufi militia Naqshbandi Army.

In Syria, Bashar al Assad regularly pays homage to various Sunni, Shia and Christian mosques and leaders.



Well, there is a complication here. President Erdogan's AK Party is connected with the Muslim Brotherhood. It is said that the 2015 bombing of a rally in Ankara was the handiwork of AK Party :

So there are still some undercurrents in Turkey :



That's what @Nike told me.

Even some province like Papua is drawing their local law based on bible, but surely western libtard never mentioned it at as it will contradict their narration of Indonesia increasingly become a brainwash mullah country, meanwhile Bali local law is drawing from Hindhu based custom

https://www.bbc.com/indonesia/indonesia-46813787

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjACegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2rUQyt3t1emLq-WFTYZ35Z

 

[Kaniska]

To be honest I haven't seen many of his posts to make that judgement yet.



You are right actually.

In Iraq, the supposedly killed high-profile Ba'ath commander, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, used to be the commander of the Sufi militia Naqshbandi Army.

In Syria, Bashar al Assad regularly pays homage to various Sunni, Shia and Christian mosques and leaders.



Well, there is a complication here. President Erdogan's AK Party is connected with the Muslim Brotherhood. It is said that the 2015 bombing of a rally in Ankara was the handiwork of AK Party :

So there are still some undercurrents in Turkey :



That's what @Nike told me.

@jamahir ...These Muslim countries have tried to be secular but i do not any one Muslim country has ever come to provide the amount of constitutional gurantee that India can provide..Most of the Muslim countries has stood for muslims only...

Again, i will do a reverse analogy...In oure peevioua wars with India and Pakistan, can you show me any Muslim countries that has stayed neutral or sided with India? Apart from Pakistan, we do not have any beef with any Muslim country..Then why majority most of the Muslim countries side with Pakistan if it is not blind support based on religion...??
If these Muslim countries beleive secularism or in a sense that their conduct in foreign policy should not be supportive to Islamic cause only...I was really amazed to see the example of Turkey’s support to Pakistan for Kashmir??What has India done to Turkey for their stance???How can they be called secular in their outlook but always carry Islamic cause???

Even that is the barometer of secularism, then we should be following Imran Khan’s Pakistan...
Unfortunately...your examples may be valid to some extent...Because if you like their secualrism, all the extreme India right winger will be happy to turn India from Gandhiji’s secularism to Turkey or Gadaffi’s secularism....

Thanks but don't you think that this @GHALIB is a fake Muslim?

This attitude will be harmful in the long run. Hindus will find themselves explaining how India is a peaceful country somewhat like Muslims from war-torn countries do


While Ba'athism is secular, it regularly draws populist support from Islamism. Tunisia is a glowing example, Algeria was secular too but military junta likewise Libya.
The best secular Muslim example is that of Turkey and probably some European states, Indonesia (except the Islamist Aceh province) is also comparably secular. @Indos


Legally equal is not equal, constitution is a piece of paper after all, for example - no Hindu is arrested till now in Delhi pogrom while Muslims are being arrested in a spree. For the "apologetic", it works both ways, you can't accuse them for their minority's treatment too.

Again, if @GHALIB is a fake Muslim, then all these liberal Hindus who are politically on opposite side of BJP can be called as fake Hindus??? Like i heard many times that Kalam ji was not a true Muslim because he beleives in equality of all religion rather than Islam is the only religion that is supreme than others??

If constitution is just a peace of paper, trust me many right wing Hindus will be happy to see India turn into Hindu Pakistan at point of time....if India turn into Hindus Pakistan, then Hindus do not have to even worry about sharing power with minorities which will prevent all the mess we are in right now...Is it an better option???

 

[Naofumi]

@jamahir ...These Muslim countries have tried to be secular but i do not any one Muslim country has ever come to provide the amount of constitutional gurantee that India can provide..Most of the Muslim countries has stood for muslims only...

Again, i will do a reverse analogy...In oure peevioua wars with India and Pakistan, can you show me any Muslim countries that has stayed neutral or sided with India? Apart from Pakistan, we do not have any beef with any Muslim country..Then why majority most of the Muslim countries side with Pakistan if it is not blind support based on religion...??
If these Muslim countries beleive secularism or in a sense that their conduct in foreign policy should not be supportive to Islamic cause only...I was really amazed to see the example of Turkey’s support to Pakistan for Kashmir??What has India done to Turkey for their stance???How can they be called secular in their outlook but always carry Islamic cause???

Even that is the barometer of secularism, then we should be following Imran Khan’s Pakistan...
Unfortunately...your examples may be valid to some extent...Because if you like their secualrism, all the extreme India right winger will be happy to turn India from Gandhiji’s secularism to Turkey or Gadaffi’s secularism....

What India have to offer to Turkey? Pakistan have an old relationship with Turkey going back to the independence war of Turkey. Non-Islamist states never supported any of the two, be it Shah's Iran or Libya or Pre-Erdogan Turkey, they even actively made relations with Israel, what was the problem with India?
And you're wrong on constitution too, kindly check Syrian or Indonesian or Kemalist constitution, especially Kemalist ideals are more secular than Gandhi's - they're based on the French concept of Laïcité; which is adored as the most aggressive form of secularism.
Fun fact : Hijabs were banned (in public) in Turkey until recently when Erdogan reversed it.

Again, if @GHALIB is a fake Muslim, then all these liberal Hindus who are politically on opposite side of BJP can be called as fake Hindus???

It's not because of his views but his shallow comments - he commented on this post "good from pm", I mean seriously? For me, he personally feels like a troll account.

Like i heard many times that Kalam ji was not a true Muslim because he beleives in equality of all religion rather than Islam is the only religion that is supreme than others??

It's not about superiority but about practicing, will you consider an Arabic learnt Hindu who praises Islamic civilisation every then and now, recites Quran and eats beef as a Hindu? Maybe you'll but for an average Hindu, he will be a distant personality in practice.

If constitution is just a peace of paper, trust me many right wing Hindus will be happy to see India turn into Hindu Pakistan at point of time....if India turn into Hindus Pakistan, then Hindus do not have to even worry about sharing power with minorities which will prevent all the mess we are in right now...Is it an better option???

I grant that the constitution is still a roadblock in the way of Hindu Rashtra but to claim equality will be an exaggeration too considering the likes of Bobde and Mishra dominates Judiciary.

 

[jamahir]

I was really amazed to see the example of Turkey’s support to Pakistan for Kashmir??What has India done to Turkey for their stance???How can they be called secular in their outlook but always carry Islamic cause???

You have a valid point.

But Turkey doesn't have a reasonable solution for Kashmir and so will speak emotionally on this matter.

Unfortunately...your examples may be valid to some extent...Because if you like their secualrism, all the extreme India right winger will be happy to turn India from Gandhiji’s secularism to Turkey or Gadaffi’s secularism

Well, in India this is how Secularism was understood :

The term ‘Secular’ was incorporated in the Preamble by 42nd Constitutional Amendment, 1976 which means that all the religions in India get equal respect, protection and support from the state.

What this lead to was a chaos where the Establishment told the people to tell each other that "I will tolerate your religious pollution as long as you tolerate my religious pollution".

Where as in the Progressive countries I mentioned earlier, Secularism largely meant :

Secularism, as defined in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, is "indifference to, or rejection or exclusion of, religion and religious considerations"

The right-wingers in India won't really be happy to implement this form of Secularism. They are actually happy with what is defined now - that chaos thing I wrote earlier.

And since we are talking about Kashmir and Gaddafi, this is what he said about Kashmir in 2009 :

"Kashmir should be an independent state, not Indian, not Pakistani. We should end this conflict. It should be a Ba'athist state between India and Pakistan,"

My solution for Kashmir, which I will come out with in a few days, derives from Gaddafi's solution but extends to India and Pakistan as well.

And Palestine, which is a Muslim-majority nation, has this official stand on Kashmir. I found the answer on Quora :

Palestine does not support the Pakistani position on Kashmir, and pulled out its ambassador in Islamabad on India’s request in 2017 when he made a pro-Kashmir statement during a public event on Jerusalem.

 

[Naofumi]

My solution for Kashmir, which I will come out with in a few days, derives from Gaddafi's solution but extends to India and Pakistan as well.

Your takes are the most weird one. Ba'athist state in Kashmir?

 

[jamahir]

Your takes are the most weird one. Ba'athist state in Kashmir?

That is not my solution but Gaddafi's. Mine uses Ba'athism as an analogy but is different, extending to India and Pakistan. Please wait for a few days. It is presently under consideration in the new magazine section.

 

[Naofumi]

That is not my solution but Gaddafi's. Mine uses Ba'athism as an analogy but is different, extending to India and Pakistan. Please wait for a few days. It is presently under consideration in the new magazine section.

The most realistic solution is to maintain the status quo, is anything different possible?