Featured PM chaired high level meeting with Services Chiefs and DG ISI - 2020

[imadul]

Jazbaat don't win wars or accomplish goals.
Pakistan has to represent Kashmiri interests as best as possible. A basic tenet of national policy is avoidance of war/conflict unless no other options exist. For a smaller power, this is even more complex because in order to further your interests, you don't want to damage everything else.

Also pardon me for saying this but immature digs like references to DHA are misplaced and perhaps out of frustration on account of not understanding the regional and security dynamics, so let's learn to hold such things back when it has nothing to do with the topic on hand.

Pakistan has a military budget of $11B against a neighbor that spends close to $60B a year. Their Army alone gets the same amount that all three of our services get so let that sink in before making such statements about not having "Tappar" etc. Pakistani awaam in general is very poorly informed. Just as an example, the entire DHA valuation cannot even pay for the upgradation/replacement of our aging artillery. It requires billions and this does not even include what we need to do for armor, replacement for the 60 year old G-3 with our infantry and countless other needs the army has, let alone what the PN and PAF need.

Talk of war and winning back Kashmir is easy when you neither have to make decisions nor put your own life on the line. Politicians that are not in power usually resort to such tactics. We should avoid such things.


And I hope you do know that when you have only 17% of what the other side gets to spend on defense then the status-quo is a fairly decent option.

I fully understand and know what you are saying about Pakistan defence budget.
Look, $11B or less or more, that's best poor Pakistan can manage. If PA thinks they are not capable to engage enemy and protect Pakistan then why do we even spend that much? For me, Kashmir is Pakistan and Kashmiris are Pakistani, though I am not a Kashmiri by ethnicity. If someone attacks one's home or family would they say I will defend when I will have strength, or more resources? One defends whatever means when their daughters, mothers and sisters are dishonored and murdered. This is not about emotions, this is about inner self.
Pakistan does not have $60B through foreseeable future. But yes we can wait to become prosperous but by that time India would have permanently altered Kashmir's demographics by killing Kashmiris and by importing jen-sanghis from all over India.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Welp, that's all folks. It was nice knowing you all but it is time for the endgame... see you in afterlife.

Indeed we belong to Allah, and indeed to Him we will return.

Not so fast please!!! The folks on the other side haven’t garnered their gold, $s, properties, mistresses etc. to enjoy them in the afterlife!!! They want to remain stuck with them forever.....

The map is showing some things that should not be made public. Too late now though.

I think the areas bordering Gujrat were intentionally shown! I think a major petrochemical complex with yearly revenue of 5b$ is within the range of artillery and rockets! And, it’s owned by the Ambanis...

 

[HRK]

That would be the wrong policy step. You never lay all your cards on the table. Pakistan's interest is in having solid relations with China and amicable/workable relations with the United States (solid relations are not a possibility as our interests diverge in some areas).

Middle of the road relations with the two pre-eminent world powers are a compulsion for us. Pakistan cannot afford to make Americans antagonistic towards the country. That would be playing into the hands of America's regional proxy i.e. India.

- US is the one who deny the inclusion of name of Indian Intelligence Operative responsible for APS terrorist attack in UN terrorist watch list.

- US supported Indian 26 Feb, 2019 attack and not only this after the attack tried to convince CJCSC not to respond.

- US was aware about 5th Aug decision, and it is believed US is in support of this decision.

- US duplicity in FATF and economic pressure to support Indian stance is another factor which must not be ignored.

So plz try to understand its not us in Pak-US relations who are making choices its the USA who is taking decisions, we could have working relationship with US only IF US want to have it, but other then issues related to Afghanistan it seems US don't want to have 'Working Relationship' with Pakistan.

On the other hand we are required to make strategic decision in a wake of changing regional situation we can not ignore our 'Security Partner' in the region and expect to decrease threats to our National Security.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I think the areas bordering Gujrat were intentionally shown! I think a major petrochemical complex with yearly revenue of 5b$ is within the range of artillery and rockets! And, it’s owned by the Ambanis...

We know what the map is showing that should never been pubic is all that can be said for now.

Once something comes out like this then PDF starts building on it ans many things are said intentionally or unintentionally.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

These Meeting seem to become a regular feature.

Last one took place like 16-17 days ago.

Exactly, the frequency of these meeting raises the question is something going to happen. After all India has started a game with PSX attack? Is Pakistan trying to do something in Kashmir Sector?

Probably Indians trying a major 9/11 type attack, or readying a response for PSX attack.

Might be. India might be trying to open another front just to gather support from their allies or might be some face saving tactics.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

If there is any blood shed in Pakistan (regardless whether its civilian or military) in any Indian incursion, this time around the gloves will come off. There will be significant casualties on the Indian side and they may not be ready for this and as a result, the chances of a major escalation are even higher than before.

I have not seen the following shared on this forum, but it is one of the best analysis of what went on Feb. 2019 and we can glean insights on what the future Pakistani response/behavior will look like. Pay attention to the points about the calmness and professionalism (and there is respect for the other side as well but even more confidence in our own capabilities) with which the Pakistani response was executed.

The gentleman on the right has ALL the maps all the time as he holds the single most important office besides that of the CGS in the Army! ;-)

Its not an oversight.

The message being sent across is....
-Coord between civil and military hierarchy
-Keeping the seating plan in view, The guys on the left (PAF and ISI) are basically in the dock...they are the presenters giving all input etc to the guys sitting on the right and PM of course.
-DG MO is not the presenter since he is sitting on the right, that too with the Air Chief, which may look odd, but its not, since he is not presenting.

Message... obviously a close watch and monitoring is being done over whatever is happening somewhere. Inputs, since they are coming from PAF and ISI, so probably they are and will be probably the first responders as well. One is for covert response (ISI), the other is overt one (PAF).

Second tier response may come from our army, since the pic shows DG MO opening his ready reckoner, showing an un-identified map. Man incharge of army ops opening his own map signifies that he also has something to say, to add, to suggest...may be independently or in consonance with the ISI and PAF.

meray do aanay.

I didn't get it. India is stuck with China. Why are we anticipating anything?

 

[BATMAN]

May be permission is given ad hoc for 9 firings out of 9 locks this time.....

Army was the last functioning institute we had, unfortunately now that as well is micro managed by politicians.
There was a time when Army Chief would give middle finger to the PM for any attempt to intervene in affairs of defense.
Every army chief of past have set his own example, but ever since amendment in military constitution, army is just another toy in the hands of PM, who so ever he may be.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Army was the last functioning institute we had, unfortunately now that as well is micro managed by politicians.
There was a time when Army Chief would give middle finger to the PM for any attempt to intervene in affairs of defense.
Every army chief of past have set his own example, but ever since amendment in military constitution, army is just another toy in the hands of PM, who so ever he may be.

Democratic civilian control of the forces is generally the norm around the world.

 

[R Wing]

If you cant maintain and enforce deterrence at all levels of modern warfare, including sub conventional, better avoid these gimmickries.

Finally, somebody gets it.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Jazbaat don't win wars or accomplish goals.
Pakistan has to represent Kashmiri interests as best as possible. A basic tenet of national policy is avoidance of war/conflict unless no other options exist. For a smaller power, this is even more complex because in order to further your interests, you don't want to damage everything else.

Also pardon me for saying this but immature digs like references to DHA are misplaced and perhaps out of frustration on account of not understanding the regional and security dynamics, so let's learn to hold such things back when it has nothing to do with the topic on hand.

Pakistan has a military budget of $11B against a neighbor that spends close to $60B a year. Their Army alone gets the same amount that all three of our services get so let that sink in before making such statements about not having "Tappar" etc. Pakistani awaam in general is very poorly informed. Just as an example, the entire DHA valuation cannot even pay for the upgradation/replacement of our aging artillery. It requires billions and this does not even include what we need to do for armor, replacement for the 60 year old G-3 with our infantry and countless other needs the army has, let alone what the PN and PAF need.

Talk of war and winning back Kashmir is easy when you neither have to make decisions nor put your own life on the line. Politicians that are not in power usually resort to such tactics. We should avoid such things.


And I hope you do know that when you have only 17% of what the other side gets to spend on defense then the status-quo is a fairly decent option.

Where else in the world are the officers of military entitled to plots and acres of land? Where else do they are not held accoutable in the name of national security for having to safegaurd the most wanted man in the world just miles from where they are trained?
Where else do the military run commercial enterprizes?
And the 17% does not include military pensions whereas your adversary and elsewhere the pension is the component of military compensation.
And who has stopped pakistan from growing its economy, if civilian leadership is your answer, than generals are equally responsible as well who has colluded with each other time to time.

 

[cranwerkhan]

My hunch is that this time they want to get the Indian navy humiliated. They have already tried the army in 2016 surgical strike, the airforce in 2019 and now its only their Navy left where they probably still have some confidence left, that they can come up on top (without the need for Rafale like equipment).

Pakistan Navy also seemed to be getting some focus recently (COAS visit to Naval War college), so who knows.

But the question is if India deploys an aircraft carrier far offshore and conducts a failed air strike like Balakot, what will be PAF's "proportionate" response? Are we again going to lob a couple of stand-off weapons close to the ship to show our intent or actually hit it (which would escalate the things)? In any case it would be much more difficult compared to firing standoff weapons across LOC, staying on our own side, with target distances < ~50KM. The Navy on the other hand would need time to mobilize for response, as it takes time for a ship/submarine to reach a sector (days i assume), as compared to fighter aircraft.

keeping in view last week night air exercise in karachi, i think your analysis is right they are going to try their navy.

 

[Baghial]

3rd July 2020

ISLAMABAD (92 News) – Prime Minister Imran Khan chaired a high-level meeting to review the internal and external security situation on Friday.

Minister for Defence Parvez Khattak, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee General Nadeem Raza, Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan and Director General Inter Services Intelligence Lt Gen Faiz Hamid attended the meeting.

The meeting reviewed internal and external security situation and resolved that sovereignty of Pakistan will be protected at all costs. It was also resolved that Pakistan believes in peaceful co-existence with its neighbors. “But we have both the will and the capacity to defend our people and territorial integrity,” it vowed.

The meeting expressed serious concern over the continued human rights violation by Indian forces in the Indian Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IOJ&K) and urged the international community to take notice.

The meeting also paid glowing tributes to the bravery and coordinated efforts of Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) who successfully thwarted the recent attack on Pakistan Stock Exchange.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1279028729231147008

the more they meet / the less are results

seems like complete hoplessness............or utter failure.


in real. nothing changed since august 2019. in kashmir

and pakistan sinking even lower , in every field,

imran was a bad idea. and bajw,s extensions was even worst.


.

 

[crankthatskunk]

With due respect, here is my take on this.

The enemy tested IA in 2016 and got nothing. Tried IAF in 2019 and got humiliated. Now if the enemy brings in IN aircraft carrier in 2020 and launches a strike (successfully or otherwise) and you are saying Pakistan would drop a few bombs/missiles around the enemy aircraft carrier in retaliation? And still that 'would escalate the things'? That's cowardly.

If enemy launches an attack using aircraft carrier, Pakistan must target and take out that aircraft carrier. 'Things' will escalate in any case regardless you hit their carrier or not. In fact, a serious escalation would have already taken place the moment the enemy launches a strike on Pakistan. So why would we be scared of escalating things? And most importantly if you hit the sh!t out of your enemy (by destroying/disabling or at least damaging aircraft carrier), you stun, demoralize, and punish the enemy and that will force the enemy desist from further escalation. We, in fact, made a mistake by not hitting the enemy in 2016 for their claimed surgical strike. Modi took it for granted to violate Pak sovereignty and got emboldened enough to attack proper Pak territory in 2019. Even the half-hearted Pak response forced the enemy to think twice before falling into its stupidity for the second time. Now if Modi ventures out on the naval front, a real jaw-breaking response will shatter their dreams of launching even a fake surgical strike against Pakistan.

Spot on. I preached and argued the same point after 27th Feb airstrikes by Pakistan.
Cowardly steps are no options against India. India only knows the language of force.
See how Modi is avoiding even using the word "China". That's what the force does to the Indians.
They had been hit hard, losing many soldiers, not just 20 declared dead.
Did Indians carried out "Sir Ji Kal Strike"!! Nope they would never, because they were deterred by China's use of force.

In my humble opinion, Pakistan (read ISI) should be ready and must have plans in hand how to hurt and neutralise Indian Navy in case of Indian aggression by the sea.

The Navy battle is not only going to be fought in the open seas, but also at harbours. ISI should have planning to hit Indian's ships docked at various ports of India. We should have comprehensive plans, created, practised, set in motion, and ready to be launched to neutralise Indian Navy. Don't leave it to chance. Don't leave it for next time.
Don't say that we could have drowned their Aircraft carrier, their sub-marines, other ships etc.

The war with India is imminent. If we strike hard first time, it would deter India from any future misadventure.
The appropriate and proportioned malacky has to end. It has no use against India.

Don't we all wish Pakistan should have taken out General Bipin and others and destroy their Ammunition dumps and other facilities!

 

[Trango Towers]

These Meeting seem to become a regular feature.

Last one took place like 16-17 days ago.

Border situations very fluid and different establishments have to be kept informed. It good they are talking

 

[Genghis khan1]

Spot on. I preached and argued the same point after 27th Feb airstrikes by Pakistan.
Cowardly steps are no options against India. India only knows the language of force.
See how Modi is avoiding even using the word "China". That's what the force does to the Indians.
They had been hit hard, losing many soldiers, not just 20 declared dead.
Did Indians carried out "Sir Ji Kal Strike"!! Nope they would never, because they were deterred by China's use of force.

In my humble opinion, Pakistan (read ISI) should be ready and must have plans in hand how to hurt and neutralise Indian Navy in case of Indian aggression by the sea.

The Navy battle is not only going to be fought in the open seas, but also at harbours. ISI should have planning to hit Indian's ships docked at various ports of India. We should have comprehensive plans, created, practised, set in motion, and ready to be launched to neutralise Indian Navy. Don't leave it to chance. Don't leave it for next time.
Don't say that we could have drowned their Aircraft carrier, their sub-marines, other ships etc.

The war with India is imminent. If we strike hard first time, it would deter India from any future misadventure.
The appropriate and proportioned malacky has to end. It has no use against India.

Don't we all wish Pakistan should have taken out General Bipin and others and destroy their Ammunition dumps and other facilities!

Simple: Economically Pakistan is weak and is trying to avoid war. History tells us, appeasement (Nawaz time) and this “restraint” (Limited coward approach) will lead to a war. Enemy will thrust war, you like it or not.
Pakistanis needs to decided, are they ready to use Nukes or not. Because, sooner or later they will have to decide. There are two possibilities. Either retaliate force fully for every Indian adventure or do nothing. First option might lead to escalations, or considering the cost of adventure, Indians might Rethink their options. Second option will lead to escalation in attitude.