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Playing It Big Or A Proxy?: Bangladesh’s Growing Closeness To China – Analysis

The army should be at a level of 800,000 ideally (active TRAINED conscripts and regulars). An outsider has no right to judge the troop strength of a sovereign independent nation. It's simply our call based on our threat perception and defensive needs. For that matter - I have no right to judge India's troop strength either. Where does this Amitav Dada get off calling judgment on how big our troop level needs to be? Tell this insignificant insect to bugger off....

Keeping our sea lanes open (with subs if need be) is also our call. Indians have no say so on it at all.

Why don't you try that with the Pakistanis and see what you get shown?
Amitava Mukherjee is only a journalist and a writer. He has only given his opinion. You may accept it or reject it but why abuse him? I know bloggers are being killed in BD but elsewhere you can peacefully air your opinions. It does not matter if BD has 8 lakh or 8 crore soldiers or a fleet of sub marines or carriers but the world does talk about such matters and its fairly civil. You and I are on PDF to share our thoughts and views.
 
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Amitava Mukherjee is only a journalist and a writer. He has only given his opinion. You may accept it or reject it but why abuse him? I know bloggers are being killed in BD but elsewhere you can peacefully air your opinions. It does not matter if BD has 8 lakh or 8 crore soldiers or a fleet of sub marines or carriers but the world does talk about such matters and its fairly civil. You and I are on PDF to share our thoughts and views.

Yeah we all talk about these things but I think Kolkata dadas like Amitava are a bit too concerned about Bangladesh and hang out at our forums because of their patronizing attitude. Look at the number of Dadas at this forum and you'll realize. Half of them engage in nothing but trolling. I had to put several in my ignore list.

Most Indians really don't care but its the Dadas that bad-mouth us first on any positive news and start derailing threads.

On the contrary I don't think there will be too many Bangladeshis going trolling in the Indian forums. 'None' is probably a closer number.
 
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The Chinese have simply signed an MOU to build an SEZ and are building bridges. If Chinese businesses don't relocate to Bangladesh then what will our people eat?

Indian threat perception is way higher than what reality exists locally. Your 'perceivers' seem to not perceive too well...:disagree:
You got it. a perception is merely a perception but it serves as a basis for future strategies. We dont perceive any threat from BD but BD being used as a pawn by China or Pakistan. And the threat is not existential but threat to peace.

We ourselves have big business relations with China so why would we worry anyone else's economic ties with that country. In fact we all want you to prosper and the whole south asia to prosper. We would want BD as Singapore under our belly rather than a Cuba to the US type situation. Thats how we think but you may like to differ thats your choice.

Yeah we all talk about these things but I think Kolkata dadas like Amitava are a bit too concerned about Bangladesh and hang out at our forums because of their patronizing attitude. Look at the number of Dadas at this forum and you'll realize. Half of them engage in nothing but trolling. I had to put several in my ignore list.

Most Indians really don't care but its the Dadas that bad-mouth us first on any positive news and start derailing threads.

On the contrary I don't think there will be too many Bangladeshis going trolling in the Indian forums. 'None' is probably a closer number.
The best way is to counter him with an article and arguments. I dont think any bengali in India carries any ill will for BD and i am rather sick of them talking about bestest illish from BD or something else from Dhaka.

Shanti Bahini are from the Chittagong hill tracts (indigenous people who are separatists).

Please read:

RAW’s involvement in Chittagong Hill Tracts

Mohammad Zainal Abedin

The object of India’s assistance to PCJSS of the Chittagong Hill Tracts (CHT) and its front organization as well, is limited not only to cripple Bangladesh but use them as tenanted ruffians and mercenaries to uproot the guerrillas of TNV (Tripura), NSCN (Nagaland), MNF (Mizoram), PLA, PAM (Manipur) and ULFA (Assam) who are engaged in an obstinate and steady jungle war to free their regions from Indian exploitative claws. Because of the Chakmas’ similarity to of appearance and stature to the tribal of North-eastern India, her intelligence agencies infiltrated many Shanti Bahini (SB) insurgents into the militant outfits of Nagaland, Manipur, Tripura, Mizoram and Assam. India’s intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) even uses the common Chakmas as its agents to procure the plans and other information of these militant outfits. A pro-Chakma book published from Calcutta accurately acknowledges:

“ During the regime of Indira Gandhi when a portion of the Naga and the Mizo communities revolted, the Indian government decided to use the tribals of CHT, Indian government accurately convicted that only the tribals of CHT could help the Indian government in procuring the information about the Nagas and the Mizos more effectively. The Union government of India decided that tribal refugees of Bangladesh (at that time it was East Pakistan) would be rehabilitated in the desolate region of NEFA (i.e. in the North-Eastern Frontier Agency with China, which is now known as Arunachal Pradesh). The rehabilitation of the refugees in the desolate region as a strategy to face the Chinese power of post-62 era perhaps was a well thought decision. Their rehabilitation in the depopulated region would not only increase the population of that area but also play a positive role in the field of defence and security arrangements. The Union government accurately concluded that these tribals would always remain faithful to and dependent on Indian government and a portion of them might have been used in defence force if the situation would demand so (78 ).

The RAW operatives closely assisted the Chakma guerrillas. The Chakmas after the change of the government in 1975 contacted the RAW. They offered to infiltrate among the Mizo rebels and pass on information to the Indian government in lieu of asylum. This offer was accepted by the then Indian government (79).

The RAW was involved in training of the rebels of Chakma tribes and Shanti Bahini to carry out subversive activities in Bangladesh (80).

In this context, let me quote renowned Indian journalist and BBC’s Eastern India correspondent Subir Bhaumik’s interview with ‘Probe News Magazine’:

“You will see in my book, from 1975 to 1990, the RAW backed Shanti Bahini……..” In 1976 after Shanti bahini went underground, their people had gone for training in India. Mind you, the rank and file were trained in India……. There was a clear indication given to Mr. Larma that India was prepared for up to 50,000 guerillas. Train them, arm them, equip them…..”(81).

This strategy still persists which makes it easier for Indian government to restrict the anti-India forces of Nagaland, Tripura, Assam, Manipur, Arunachal Pradesh, Mizoram and Meghalaya. On the other hand, RAW genuinely perceived that the chakmas are subservient to India, the militants of the North-east would not get shelter even temporarily if the SB remains active in CHT, In fact, one can conclude that SB was used the fence of the Indian border.

In 1975, the RAW was instructed to assist the Chakma rebels with arms, supplies, bases and training. Training was concluded in the border camps in Tripura but specialized training was imparted at Chakrata near Dehra Doon. Shantu Larma’s Shanti Bahini members were flown to Chakrata and then sent back to Tripura to infiltrate into CHTs. A RAW office and its operatives at Agartala monitored the progress of the trainees. In 1976, the Shanti Bahini launched its first attack on the Bangladesh forces. A new insurgency had been born and India’s secret war in the hills of Bangladesh had begun (82).

Motiur Rahman, editor, Prothom Alo who is known to be soft towards India, disclosed that Indian intelligence agencies tried to create unrest in CHT region and continues it till date (83).

Now it is open secret that CHT problem is the direct outcome of Indian manipulation. India with the active cooperation of the Congress ruffians Gopal Krisna Chakma, Sneha Kumar Chakma and others persuaded some ambitious and derailed tribals, mainly the Chakmas, to float a secessionist outfit under the leadership of former Pairliament member Manbendra Narayan Larma.

Though the article No. 9 of the now defunct Indo-Bangladesh Treaty of Cooperation and friendship signed on March 19, 1972 categorically stated that one country would neither allow the terrorists of other to use its territory nor encourage any activities subversive to internal peace and security and territorial integrity. But within a year of signing the treaty India violated the provisions of the treaty by allowing the PCJSS and SB terrorists to operate against Bangladesh from Indian soil.

Referring to Larma’s RAW connection an English weekly ‘Friday’ published from Dhaka mentioned that Manbendra Larma crossing the border met Indian intelligence officials in 1976. The same weekly informed that Larma’s initiation to patch up with Late President Ziaur Rahman was deterred under Indian pressure. The weekly says: “The attempt of M.N. Larma to negotiate a settlement with Zia was failed as the armed wing of the Jana Sanghati Samiti was compelled to initiate armed operation under Indian pressure in mid 1976” (84).

Chittagong Hill Tracts: A Victim of Indian Intervention, Mohammad Zainal Abedin,Eastern Publications, London, 2003, pages.97-100.

——————————————————————–

78. Debjani Dutta & Annusuya Bosu Roy Chowdhury, The Politics and the Struggle of Chittagong Hill Tracts border, Calcutta Research Group, Calcutta, India, Page.63
79. Inside RAW:The Story of India’s Secret Service, Asoka Raina, Vikas Publishers, New Delhi, India, 1981, page. 86-87
80. RAW’s Role in Furthering India’s Foreign Policy, Ashok Biswas, The New Nation, Dhaka, August 31, 1994
81. PROBE, Vol.1, Issue 4, Dhaka, September 1-15, 2001.
82. Binalaksmi Nepram, South Asia’s Fractured Frontier, Mittal Publishers, New Delhi, 2002, page-153.
83. Motiur Rahaman, Prothom Alo, Dhaka, December 10, 2002.
84. Weekly Friday, Dhaka, June3, 1988.
There was a time when NE insurgents of India took shelter in BD. The times have indeed changed. We have got over the past and resolved world's most complicated border issue. We have the option to look forward.
 
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Between China and india, China is the obvious choice. No one in their right mind would want to be associated with a problematic and useless country that is poorer than sub -saharan africa.

China should have a EU kind of economical and immigration integration ala free movement of goods and services and people with Bangladesh and Pakistan. Pakistan already has trust issues with China wrt CPEC corridor.

To overcome such issues with Bangladesh, China should issue permanent work visas and also future citizenship to Bangladeshi males without any restriction. This will help in better understanding of Chinese and Bangladeshis.

Give an assureity to Bangaldeshis that they are not being taken for a ride.
 
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You have to play it big and act as little as a proxy,that's the rule.

So far,Bangladesh is doing it good.
 
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Seem like you are a math challenged guy.Indian budget in 2016-2017 is 19.78 lakh crore Rs. out of which 2.58 lakh crore was allocated for defence or 13.05 percent of total budget.Double the percentage wise of BD.Calculator is a big help for your kind.So feel free to use it.
Seems you're one ignorant bongoloid. India is federal state, where states have their own Budgets, sources of revenues & get share of central taxes.

India's combined Budget Expenditure for 2014-2015 was $560 billion (35.27 lakh crore) of which some $36 billion ( 2.29 lakh crore) was allocated to the military expenditure.

Do the math,genius.

Why are these fighters (at least a squadron in each) stationed around all airbases (especially Kalaikunda, Tejpur and Chebua Airbases) bordering Bangladesh?

They're for our Eastern neighbors. Chill maro.
 
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Where was your true friend China in '71? It was busy supporting operations against you.
Why don't the BD migrants flock to China instead of Assam and W.B. I am sure China will open their doors wide open.
In order to stop India China could have mobilized its troops along the border with NE India. China did not do so. China gave Pakistan only a verbal support with good talks and niceties, but it was no substance.
 
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India's combined Budget Expenditure for 2014-2015 was $560 billion (35.27 lakh crore) of which some $36 billion ( 2.29 lakh crore) was allocated to the military expenditure.
What is the source of 560 billion? Don't give wikipedia reference.

Seems you're one ignorant bongoloid. India is federal state, where states have their own Budgets, sources of revenues & get share of central taxes.
Bangladesh doesn't have state level budget,but it has city, municipality,union parishad level budget.So india is not an exception my shudra friend.
 
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Bangladesh doesn't have state level budget,but it has city, municipality,union parishad level budget.So india is not an exception

Which gets funding from the central government, as in case of India.

Google Indian public finance statistics for combined Budget Expenditure of center & state governments.
 
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Which gets funding from the central government, as in case of India.

Google Indian public finance statistics for combined Budget Expenditure of center & state governments.
Most of the financing by municipal govt. comes from separate tax other than govt. tax money subsidy in case of BD.
 
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No one in Bangladesh has issues to engage with Indian Govt. politically.

And there are no issues personally with Indian people, culturally there are no issues either.

We have to make that distinction.

But New Delhi should not be dictating what an independent sovereign nation does on a national level. That is what is happening at this time. If you want to further alienate all Bangladeshis, keep playing the 'Dadagiri' game. It is working as intended.

Bangladesh is not Nepal, it is not even Sri Lanka. Rules are a little different.

How many Indians in the blogosphere do you see praising things in Bangladesh? Almost none. Bangladeshis see this narrow mindedness and they make their own conclusions. Bangladeshis become anti-Indian-Govt. by dint of the latter's actions but they are certainly not Anti-Indian per se. I know loads of people whose wives are Indian - both Muslims and Hindus. Our problems are with your govt.

After the 1965 episode with China, India would rather not try anything 'funny' with the Chinese either. I was told that in 1965 war the Chinese commented that they had never seen anyone retreat (run away) from the battlefield so fast. They left all their dirty .303 rifles behind.

Leave it to the Chinese to meticulously clean them to brand new shape and return them to the Indians when the hostilities ended.




Indians helped because it was,

a) a humanitarian issue

b) it served the Indira Gandhi's plans

probably more of the latter.

If something happened in India, we'd open our doors wide too. Works both ways.

Your posts have usually been reasonable and balanced, and even most of this post is so, therefore it was a surprise to read some of the comments on this one. If you want to be instructed in painful detail on the events of the India-China conflict, you might want to start with citing the correct year, and go on from there. But if you feel uncertain, do let me know: you will be told whatever you need to be told.

And, from one who was present, and aware of incidents behind the scenes, take it from me: Indira Gandhi had NO plans until the humanitarian crisis arose.
 
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Indira Gandhi had NO plans until the humanitarian crisis arose.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/playing-...-china-–-analysis.437144/page-4#ixzz4DATUWudj

Never heard of a politician who was moved by human suffering and it is more unthinkable if that politician is that dynastic PM Indira Gandhi. Shastri would have been a little different. Indira was very calculating and far sighted. It was the future of India that she was thinking more in 1971 than human suffering.
 
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Your posts have usually been reasonable and balanced, and even most of this post is so, therefore it was a surprise to read some of the comments on this one. If you want to be instructed in painful detail on the events of the India-China conflict, you might want to start with citing the correct year, and go on from there. But if you feel uncertain, do let me know: you will be told whatever you need to be told.

And, from one who was present, and aware of incidents behind the scenes, take it from me: Indira Gandhi had NO plans until the humanitarian crisis arose.

Dada since you are a senior brother - we have no ill will against someone like you or many like you.

But you have to realize that the civilian intelligentsia that was a majority of India's brain trust (especially in WB) has already been replaced by a large hate-mongering Hindutva-brainwashed majority ascending from the lower middle-classes in your country.

Such an underclass person is now your Prime Minister who officially espouses religious discrimination which is banned under the UN human rights charter.

Even living in the US we have seen Hindu BJP supporters (mostly H1B folks) from Kolkata openly bad-mouthing Muslim Bangladeshis in the US of all places and start a 'virodh' out of nowhere. We were shocked.

Not Mullahs mind you - but they are hating on Rabindra Sangeet-loving, Bangla Akademi attending, Namabali wearing Bangladeshi secular Muslims. You and your Indian brethren have lost your WB secularism to these lower class religious nutcases who now command attention front and center. They are the new face of WB.

The day is not far off when WB will officially be under the BJP/RSS.

Lord save the intellectual secular traditions of Kolkata.....

I don't say this with hate but a great deal of sadness and remorse.
 
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Dada since you are a senior brother - we have no ill will against someone like you or many like you.

But you have to realize that the civilian intelligentsia that was a majority of India's brain trust (especially in WB) has already been replaced by a large hate-mongering Hindutva-brainwashed majority ascending from the lower middle-classes in your country.

Such an underclass person is now your Prime Minister who officially espouses religious discrimination which is banned under the UN human rights charter.

Even living in the US we have seen Hindu BJP supporters (mostly H1B folks) from Kolkata openly bad-mouthing Muslim Bangladeshis in the US of all places and start a 'virodh' out of nowhere. We were shocked.

Not Mullahs mind you - but they are hating on Rabindra Sangeet-loving, Bangla Akademi attending, Namabali wearing Bangladeshi secular Muslims. You and your Indian brethren have lost your WB secularism to these lower class religious nutcases who now command attention front and center. They are the new face of WB.

The day is not far off when WB will officially be under the BJP/RSS.

Lord save the intellectual secular traditions of Kolkata.....

I don't say this with hate but a great deal of sadness and remorse.


You are really chilling me. What an awful prediction! Even if it comes true, please don't say it. The prospect saddens me infinitely, and you cannot even begin to understand.

Both sides of my family lost everything at partition; if my father had not housed his entire family in his official quarters, if my mother's father had not subsidised his entire enlarged family out of his forest service pay, both would have been living for years in refugee camps. Yet, when my father finished his book about serving under the British, although he was nearly blind and rapidly losing his hearing, he told me he wanted to write his next book, about friends. When I asked which friends, he mentioned Taslimuddin Ahmed, his buddy from Sharda days and a former IG, East Pakistan; Iqbal Athar Ali, a former ICS officer who became Pakistan's ambassador to Belgium; his greatest friend, Kaisar Chacha, K. M Kaisar, who joined the Pakistan Foreign Service also, and was the physical person present when Kissinger flew in from Pakistan by a secret flight to meet Chou En Lai and set up Nixon's visit; and Shaheed Suhrawardy. I had to point out that they were all Bangladeshis and all Muslim, when he looked disconcerted and worked to balance the list.

Yes, the Hindutvavadis are gaining in strength, but we have still held them at bay in West Bengal; although their winning even a single seat, their not losing their deposits, is a new phenomenon, they haven't done well in any election, even the two under Mamata.

Things have been very depressing of late, and this comment of yours puts a cap on it. Your sadness and regret cannot exceed mine.
 
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