Plans for Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Dash]

hmmm Most of the AMCA avionics is bound to get into FGFA... but OLS i guess we will inherit from FGFA into AMCA... not sure Russia will allow this..

Brother sometimes I really get tired to see how we work actually. MRCA started long back and still we have no clue as to who is going to be the winner. AMCA is a project which actually can be discussed by 2012. and not now...To be very honest

 

[sageof6path]

new update check livefist.................. Indian Navy too is interested in AMCA......
Livefist - Indian Defence & Aerospace: MAG REPORT: AMCA Moves Forward, Navy Interested, Tech Partnership Talks On With Saab

 

[jha]

SAAB is the best cost effective option..And ToT involved ( if any ) will be most..
Best decision taken by MoD..

 

[sathya]

SAAB is the best cost effective option..And ToT involved ( if any ) will be most..
Best decision taken by MoD..

which are the areas india would ask saab for collaberation..?

 

[jha]

which are the areas india would ask saab for collaberation..?

Believe it or, not we can learn a lot of things from them..They have been making Planes for long now..

 

[sathya]

Believe it or, not we can learn a lot of things from them..They have been making Planes for long now..

yeah i agree they are atleast one generation ahead of india as they are already testing gripen NG..
i just want to know what are areas we can get best out of them
i like their lowest life cycle cost... low cost opereations
hot refuelling, rough landing in roads..

we are already jumping to AMCA ahead of them
what can saab provide that we cant get from israel, russia and france that we are already getting..
i am sure something will be there that will be beneficial to us.

 

[khatarnak gunda]

As the VISION-2020 suggest India as a Nuclear power and IAF as a Nuclear force. India will have to acquire the capability of launching these weapons thus the delivery system for the Nuclear arsenals and to defend them. For this IAF would have a major role to play as via-air dropping is the easiest and the most common method used in wars.

Currently IAF is under development with first to acquire the force multipliers and setting up of a Nuclear Command And Post. If we take a look at the IAF's fleet of year 2020, the list would as follows-


(A) Frontline Fighters

1) (FGFA)
2) (MRCA)
3) Su-30 MKI
4) MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) (Fighter/Bomber/Recon)
5) LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) KH-2001
6) Mig-29K (The non- carrier version)
7) Mig-27
8) Mig-21- (Fighter)
9) Jaguar (Fighter)
10) Mig-23 (Fighter)


(B) Long Range bombers and Recon aircrafts


1) MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft) (Fighter/Bomber/Recon)
2) Tu-22M3 Backfire (Bomber/Recon)
3) Mig-25 Foxbat (Recon)
4) Mirage-2000 (Bomber)
5) Mig-23 (Bomber)
6) Jaguar (Recon)
7) AVATAR (Solid Fueled Space Based) (Recon)
8) Mig-21-93 (Recon)
9) Su-30 MKI (Recon/Bomber)
10) (MRCA)


(C) Light/Heavy/Executive Transports



1) IL-76MD Candid B (Heavy Transporter)
2) IL-214 (Light Transport)
3) ATR (Light transport and Executive)
4) Dornier 228 (Light transport/Executive)
5) Boeing 737-300 (Executive)
6) Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules
7) Boeing C-17 Globemaster III


(D) Force Multipliers


1) A-50 Phalcon AEW&C (A-50 Mainstay with a Israeli Phalcon radar system)
2) EMB 145 AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control) jets
3) Boeing E-3 Sentry
4) IL-78 Air to ait refueling tanker
5) Boeing 737-300 Air to ait refueling tanker


(E) Combat Helicopters


1) Mi-24/25/35 Hind (Attack/Transport Version)
2) ALAH (Adavance light attack helicopter)
3) ALH (Attack Version)
4) LAH Lancer (Light Attack Helicopter)
5) ALH (Advance Light Helicopter) (Attack Version)
6) Chetak (Attack Version)
7) Mi-8/17 (Attack Version)


(F) Executive/Heavy/Light Transport Helicopters

1) Mi-26 (The Largest Helo In the world)
2) Mi-8/17 (Transport Version)
3) Mi-24/25/35 (Transport Version)
4) ALH (Advance Light Helicopter) (Transport Version)
5) Chetak/Cheetah (Transport Version)
6) Dauphin
7) LOH Light Observation Helicopter (Transport)


(G) Observation/Recon Helicopter


1) LOH (light Observation Helicopter) (Recon)
2) Mi-24/25/35 (Recon)
3) Mi-8/17 (Recon)
4) Chetak-Cheetah (Recon)
5) ALH (Advance Light Helicopter) (Recon)


(H) Combat/non-combat capable trainers



1) HJT-36 (Advance Sub/Super sonic) (Combat Capable)
2) AJT Hawk (Advance Sub/Super sonic) (Combat Capable)
3) HJT-16 Kiran (Sub-sonic)
4) Iskara (Sub-Sonic)
5) Mg-21-93UB Trainer (Sub-Super Sonic) (Combat Capable)
6) LCA KH-2001 (Trainer) (Advance Sub-Super Sonic) (Combat Capable)
7) HPT-32 (Transport Trainer)
8) Dornier 228 (Transport trainer)

Don't forget your Thx

i may be wrong but.......

Mig 29K is naval version, IAF has Mig29

Mostly Mig21 and Mig27 will be phased out until 2020. they have served enough.

As long as I know, Mig23 are phased out already and if not, they too will get their way to exit the service till 2020.

Mig25 were phased out on May 2006 (4 and half years ago)

As long as I know Jaguar is a bomber mainly. Others are secondary roles.

Mig21 bison is an interceptor mainly. Others are secondary roles.

You forgot to add LCH in the Combat Helicopter list.

dear laughing buddha, i am not countering you, but if you think i am not wrong, don't forgt your thnx...... just kidding...

 

[GORKHALI]

lauging buddha !! Here's so many correction in your list
1> Mig21 any model will be completely phased out even before 2020
2>Mig23 is already phased out and am the one of the luckiest one to attend the phasing out cermony at Halwara AFS.
3>Mi 35 and Mi 24/25 will phased out by 2017 or 2018 and replaced by AH 64 D APACHE OR MI 28 NE HAVOC
4>LCH WILL BE INDUCTED BY 2013-2014 AND BY 2020 SAY 4 SQN OF LCH WILL BE INDUCTED IN ARMY AND IAF
5>MIG 25 ALREADY PHASED OUT 5YEARS BACK
6>CHETAK AND CHEETAH WILL BE PHASED OUT BY 2018 AND REPLACED BY EITHER FENAC T OR KA 226.
7>Mig29k is naval version and upgraded version mig 29 SMT IS IAF VERSION
8>YOU CAN EXPECT A SQUADORN OR TWO OF FGFA/PAKFA TOO.
9>trainers will be HAWK AJT ,IJT ,DEEPAK,AND NEW BASIC TRAINER .
10> AMCA WILL BE STILL 5YEARS FAR FROM INDUCTION...

 

[kingdurgaking]

^^^^ AMCA 5 yrs from induction ..no way.. 5yrs to launch the Prototype... Induction is a long journey bro... lot of new tech in AMCA especially need to see which engine is used

 

[sancho]

SAAB is the best cost effective option..And ToT involved ( if any ) will be most..
Best decision taken by MoD..

They are a good choice, by the fact that they even made some stealth fighter studies for S. Korea, but what surprised me though is the fact, that Saab wasn't chosen for the AESA radar co-development of LCA MK2, nor that Volvo is an alternative to Snecma, as a codevelopment partner for Kaveri engine. There was only 1 report about Volvo
If ADA/HAL and co sees Saab as a good choice, it would have been logical to choose them for these codevelopments too, because it had influenced LCA MK2 and AMCA at once. Not to mention that one could have combined all these things perfectly with Gripen E/F for MMRCA, if we are looking for cost-effectiveness only and not strategic and political benefits. But hey, when does LCA development had gone a logical way?

 

[patentneer]

Clarification:

HAL doesn't do design, that's done by ADA. HAL is only responsible for manufacturing and small projects based on tech absorption (like Dhruv & LCH).

+ 1



No point under-estimating the hi-fi science of Systems Engineering. Naive to think something, anything cannot be done re: engg.

I once worked on Joint Strike Fighter project, turbine engg. side- as systems eng.

Making anything complex is called a 'system engineering' job. 1 takes a modular, project and sub-system (.. hehe ... some desi ppl. call it 'sub assembly' only ) based approach. So strap together whole lot of sub-systems, mostly off-the-shelf; ... and then ...1-2-3 ..testing ... testing ... testing. Keep ratcheting and teasing the req.'s into the System to 'fill-the-order'. Give hell to the testers- usually bright eyed, bush tailed green horns right out of college. Throw a pizza par-tee efree other week-end. Lazy Co.'s will ewen outsource all of that **** to. Big agencies/Co.'s ... do it like motherhood. In the biz same are called 'systems integrators'.

Whole 'system' is made of sub-systems. And sub-sub-systems. And sub-sub-sub system's ok. Bi the time u come to the grass-roots sub.'s, there is enough competition that technology starts to become more neutral, other factors also take precedence. Their are lots of 'independents', professors angling for funding, and consultants who will do the job for u at that sub level on a project - bi - project basis. Then meow on and do same for the competition. Binding them with 'Geographical' restraint contracts works only so-so. There's always a work-around that eg . foreign competitors jump-in, Ppl. work through friends, relatives, from abroad. What to do?

Important thing is to know what u want, u gotta know what to order! Req. engg. From an insider view, it is only as scalable in degrees of complexity as putting together a motorcycle or ... hehe ... Mrooti. Believe me, a bunch of well funded project and line managers can do a lot , ... try me.

I'll make u a 5'th gen. jet ... or anything ... just hook-it-up with enough funding, I will deliver ... pro ... promis ... Pucca Promise!

 

[MickyMouse]

lauging buddha !! Here's so many correction in your list
1> Mig21 any model will be completely phased out even before 2020
2>Mig23 is already phased out and am the one of the luckiest one to attend the phasing out cermony at Halwara AFS.
3>Mi 35 and Mi 24/25 will phased out by 2017 or 2018 and replaced by AH 64 D APACHE OR MI 28 NE HAVOC
4>LCH WILL BE INDUCTED BY 2013-2014 AND BY 2020 SAY 4 SQN OF LCH WILL BE INDUCTED IN ARMY AND IAF
5>MIG 25 ALREADY PHASED OUT 5YEARS BACK
6>CHETAK AND CHEETAH WILL BE PHASED OUT BY 2018 AND REPLACED BY EITHER FENAC T OR KA 226.
7>Mig29k is naval version and upgraded version mig 29 SMT IS IAF VERSION
8>YOU CAN EXPECT A SQUADORN OR TWO OF FGFA/PAKFA TOO.
9>trainers will be HAWK AJT ,IJT ,DEEPAK,AND NEW BASIC TRAINER .
10> AMCA WILL BE STILL 5YEARS FAR FROM INDUCTION...

50 PAK-FA will already have come and at least couple of FGFA squadrons will come.

Su-30MKI was our first example of customization and multi-system integration. It took 8 years between signing of contract and delivering first indigenous MKI And we have had 10 years to learn and improve the technique.

AMCA will depend upon development of LCA Mk2. If we can go from LCA Mk1 to a successful Mk2 in good time, then I expect AMCA to be ready for induction by then. But I would prefer AMCA to be a true stealth fighter since FGFA is already there.

 

[angeldemon_007]

In my opinion instead of SAAB we should go for Dassault, they even have a future plan for Rafale on the contrary SAAB has decided to stop for a time being after Gripen NG. France has even worlds best fighter testing facilities.

We can even include both of them but if you ask me Dassault or Saab I vote for Dassault. Saab even don't have their own AESA. If India looks towards Saab for a AESA I doubt whether they would be able to provide us or not. Even our engine is JV with french company.

In my opinion we should atleast start designing the plane if we want to complete our fighter in the time frame. Also, We should continue our LCA project.

We should continue to add new features of 5th gen to our LCA so that in the end we will have a 5th gen fighter in small fighter segment also.

Stop working on LCA after LCA mkII and working on a different platform would be a bad idea. I think we should not leave LCA project after LCA mkII after all whats wrong in adding the features of 5th gen in LCA.

Even the time frane is matching. By the time LCA mkII will be ready, India will be almost ready with its 1st prototype of AMCA while Russia will be ready with its PakFa, we just have to add those features to our LCA.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Hey guys don't you think we should start working on the fifth gen technology and start to test them on LCA. By the time design for our 5th fighter will be ready (remember design plays a very important role as we want to make a fully), we could add them on our AMCA. For eg:
1) We can test internal weapon bays.
2) Switches, bezel and keypads which are to be replaced with touch-screen interface and voice command should be tested.
3)Helmet mounted Display
4)If not the above things, ADA must define the avionics they want in AMCA and start to implement it on LCA just as a prototype.

Even Russia is testing its 5th gen features on Su-35BM.

It will take time to develop the airframe, its better by that time we get whatever we need including our aesa which could tested on LCA or Su30 mki before its inclusion in AMCA prototype.

Its good that some of the projects are going on from before like AESA, Kaveri-Snecma engine and Mayavi EWS.

Lets hope they are finished by 2015 and even the airframe is designed by 2015-2016 so that we can combine all these feature and present a prototype by 2017.

Also we should not think of introducing features like edge matching, engine bay cooling as even Russians have not included these features in their 1st prototype but a separate project should be started to test these features separately without the involvement of the actual team of AMCA.

So that they can concentrate on the remaining features. After the first prototype both team can combine their results to make the next prototypes.