PKK/PYD terrorists use US TOW missiles against Turkish troops in Afrin

[ValerioAurelius]

Just google Armenian genocide



Karma is a bitch, Erodgan got no one but himself to blame,

he back stabbed his old buddy Assad, and got a Kurd zone near the border

Look his stupid Egyptian policy,
Look he openly fight with his American ally
Look he meddle within Arab affairs - Saudi Qatar spat
Look he shot down Russian plane, you think Putin will let it go? for now their interests just converge

he openly support and harbor Uighur terrorists, I say China should donate 1 million our HJ anti tank missiles to Kurds

You forgot that he fucked up relations with entire EU as well.

 

[Basel]

The second tank took a direct hit and carried on regardless.

Video just shows that how effective ATGMs can be, if properly used as per situation. PA could also inflict heavy damage to cold start advancing armor with ATGMs.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Sorry my European friend. How is being European working out for you?

Say's a American.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The agenda of Iran is to the south and this US backed forces were trying to cut Iran route to Damascus so turkish intervention is helping Iran. Russia wants to keep a check on Europe and this is the same area where drone were used to target Russian Base recently. Turkey is helping Russia and creating a buffer zone for Russia as well. The only countries that are being hurt are Israel and USA as their plan to cut of Iran route is being effected

@HannibalBarca what you are saying is not comprehensible as I cannot find a factual reason where they would be against Turkish operation.

Because you are seeing things in a binary way... on the basis that "What is with me, can't be against me..."

 

[Serpentine]

And how did thousands of TOW missiles reach Syria to 'rebel' hands, later AQ and ISIS hands and also Kurds? through Turkish and to a much lesser extent, Jordanian borders. Countries should be aware that what they do in their immediate neghbourhood can have negative consequences.

RIP to the deceased troops in the attack. But Turkey itself is largely to blame for thousands of TOW missiles flowing in Syria among different groups, YPG included. Anyone who thinks differently basically has no idea about dynamics of Syria war.

PS: At beginning of Afrin operation, I said Turkey's concerns about YPG are fully understandable, but I don't agree with all aspects of Turkish intervention since I believe Erdogan himself is a big culprit in the aftermath of what happened, from YPG self ruled areas to Idlib which is now most densely populated terror stronghold in the world. He surely didn't anticipate this situation, but that doesn't take the blame off him.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The fact is that what is a terrorist to one man can be a freedom fighter to another. In fact terrorist groups can go from being "freedom fighters" to being considered terorists in one lifetime. Example are the Mujihadeen from the 1980s whose present iteration are often called terrorists. Similarly Haganah the Jewish terrorist group would go on to make the nucleaus of the Israeli Army. Closer to home I have seen IRA tagged as "terrorists" and enemy of the British state to being accepted as partners in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

With regards to the specifics of this thread my first thought is the tragedy being played out here. The deaths and destruction on all sides is tragic to say the least. If only we could go back to the days of Iraq and Syria being dictatorships but were at least stable. This region has been wrecked since US invasion in 2003.

On the subject of PKK and YPG whilst de jure the latter is not recognized as a terrorist organization in US or EU because of political expediancy as it is being used to fight the IS but de facto YPG is the Syrian brand of the PKK and as such both are two heads of the same Hydra. We can for political reasons and expediancy avoid accepting this fact but I think Turkey is not in a position given it faces the threat to overlook the technicalities. For purposes of Turkish security and interests PKK and YPG are the same thing dressed in differant clothes.

And that is entirely understandable.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The fact is that what is a terrorist to one man can be a freedom fighter to another. In fact terrorist groups can go from being "freedom fighters" to being considered terorists in one lifetime. Example are the Mujihadeen from the 1980s whose present iteration are often called terrorists. Similarly Haganah the Jewish terrorist group would go on to make the nucleaus of the Israeli Army. Closer to home I have seen IRA tagged as "terrorists" and enemy of the British state to being accepted as partners in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

With regards to the specifics of this thread my first thought is the tragedy being played out here. The deaths and destruction on all sides is tragic to say the least. If only we could go back to the days of Iraq and Syria being dictatorships but were at least stable. This region has been wrecked since US invasion in 2003.

On the subject of PKK and YPG whilst de jure the latter is not recognized as a terrorist organization in US or EU because of political expediancy as it is being used to fight the IS but de facto YPG is the Syrian brand of the PKK and as such both are two heads of the same Hydra. We can for political reasons and expediancy avoid accepting this fact but I think Turkey is not in a position given it faces the threat to overlook the technicalities. For purposes of Turkish security and interests PKK and YPG are the same thing dressed in differant clothes.

And that is entirely understandable.

Everything happen for a reason... Sometimes the result of an action are not seen in a man lifetime.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Everything happen for a reason... Sometimes the result of an action are not seen in a man lifetime.

I will be honest at a personal level I am rather pro Kurds. Besides the fact that my ethnic group is a cousin of the Kurdish lingustic group but beyond that I have had some interactions with Kurds in UK which has been very positive. I find much in common with their relaxed and progressive outlook that is often left of centre and quite secular. Features which I admire.

However I think the Kurds best future is with Turkey and Iran. Meaning those on the west side should 100% accept and integrate in the Turkish state and those others in Iran do the same with Iran. The reasons are Turkey/Iran are regional powers and will always be there. US/EU and the rest will move on as other priorties or other fields grab their attention but Turks/Iranians will always be there. Therefore Kurds need to make peace with Turkey and not play as pawns to outsiders because one day they will be dumped and find that they have to face the consequences alone. And I am aware that Turkey and Iran states give enough space to integrate the Kurds. The last thing the Kurds should be doing is chasing a dream that is never going be possible. After the outsiders leave Kurs are going to have to live in peace with Turks, Iranians and Arabs to the south.

 

[ValerioAurelius]

I will be honest at a personal level I am rather pro Kurds. Besides the fact that my ethnic group is a cousin of the Kurdish lingustic group but beyond that I have had some interactions with Kurds in UK which has been very positive. I find much in common with their relaxed and progressive outlook that is often left of centre and quite secular. Features which I admire.

However I think the Kurds best future is with Turkey and Iran. Meaning those on the west side should 100% accept and integrate in the Turkish state and those others in Iran do the same with Iran. The reasons are Turkey/Iran are regional powers and will always be there. US/EU and the rest will move on as other priorties or other fields grab their attention but Turks/Iranians will always be there. Therefore Kurds need to make peace with Turkey and not play as pawns to outsiders because one day they will be dumped and find that they have to face the consequences alone. And I am aware that Turkey and Iran states give enough space to integrate the Kurds. The last thing the Kurds should be doing is chasing a dream that is never going be possible. After the outsiders leave Kurs are going to have to live in peace with Turks, Iranians and Arabs to the south.

Easy to be said when you are not part of a marginalized group in the mercy of another group.

I think the Kurds should fight for more autonomous rights, become selfgoverned regions but still be part of Turkey.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Easy to be said when you are not part of a marginalized group in the mercy of another group.

I think the Kurds should fight for more autonomous rights, become selfgoverned regions but still be part of Turkey.

As I said I am open to the Kurdish sensibilities but the fact is Turkey or Iran are never going to allow any form of autonomy. The only way possible is if a outside power like US or Russia wrecked the Turkish or Iranian states like what happened in Iraq or Syria but let's be honest that is never going to happen. Therefore the best possible future is for Kurds to grab the opportunities afforded by Turkey and move on. The Irish Catholics did. The Chechens in Russia did when they are more distent from Russians.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Easy to be said when you are not part of a marginalized group in the mercy of another group.

Is that from personal experience?

 

[pher]

China is no friend of Turkey. They dont even give visa to Turks because the Uighur extremism.

haha, how do you know about this? even some germans began to complain of visa being rejected by China just because their names look like turks'. In short, we hate them.

Today's turkey is prety much like saddam's iraq or gadaffy's libya, having sour relationship with all big powers. It is highly likely it will end up like them.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And I am using a Kurd I know [univesity lecturer in UK] as template. He is a proud Turk, walks with pride wearing his Turkish nationality but is also proud of his Kurdish heritage as I have seen the Kurdish flag in his office. And he opposes the PKK and rest, His view is the Kurdish cause is best served by playing a constructive role within the Turkish Republic.

And his reasoning makes pefect sense.

 

[HannibalBarca]

haha, how do you know about this? even some germans began to complain of visa being rejected by China just because their names look like turks'. In short, we hate them.

Today's turkey is prety much like saddam's iraq or gadaffy's libya, having sour relationship with all big powers. It is highly likely it will end up like them.

Back to sleep, Boy...

And I am using a Kurd I know [univesity lecturer in UK] as template. He is a proud Turk, walks with pride wearing his Turkish nationality but is also proud of his Kurdish heritage as I have seen the Kurdish flag in his office. And he opposes the PKK and rest, His view is the Kurdish cause is best served by playing a constructive role within the Turkish Republic.

And his reasoning makes pefect sense.

That's the behavior of 95% Kurds in Turkey. (Turkish Kurd)

 

[ValerioAurelius]

Is that from personal experience?

We have a similar situation with South Tirol, an area we took from Austria after WWI. There also started an independence movement which was calmed down when we granted them more rights for self governance.

haha, how do you know about this? even some germans began to complain of visa being rejected by China just because their names look like turks'. In short, we hate them.

Today's turkey is prety much like saddam's iraq or gadaffy's libya, having sour relationship with all big powers. It is highly likely it will end up like them.

They brought it in Italian news that you reject Turks with german passports. I guarantee you that majority of Europeans stands on your side with that. A passport doesnt make you a german, italian or chinese.