PK 18 Battlefield Rifle , SMG PK 21 (AK-103) and PK-10 are way forward

[s.k]

LMT308MWs

L129A1

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

British iterations of AR???

LMT308MWs

L129A1

 

[s.k]

British iterations of AR???

American
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Machine_and_Tool_Company

 

[Kompromat]

POF is showing off 3 products they have recently imported from abroad, add LSR and you have 4 products POF has tried to sell to the Army, so far unsuccessfully.

This is mockery. POF is not paying any attention to R&D. They import stuff, cobble it together and try to sell it to the Army as their own product. Of course Army is not foolish and they know how its going.

 

[Sine Nomine]

POF is showing off 3 products they have recently imported from abroad, add LSR and you have 4 products POF has tried to sell to the Army, so far unsuccessfully.

This is mockery. POF is not paying any attention to R&D. They import stuff, cobble it together and try to sell it to the Army as their own product. Of course Army is not foolish and they know how its going.

They don't have any gunsmiths or firearm designers and i suspect they don't have any design department either,one shouldn't expect anything from them,POF is just PSM without political influence.Small Arms is a corporate business,we should never expect much from a business being run by Govt babus.

 

[niaz]

They don't have any gunsmiths or firearm designers and i suspect they don't have any design department either,one shouldn't expect anything from them,POF is just PSM without political influence.Small Arms is a corporate business,we should never expect much from a business being run by Govt babus.

Honorable Sir,

IMO you are asking too much of POF. POF’s main task was to make Pakistan self-sufficient in the manufacture ammunition & small arms requirement of Pak Army. This has been achieved by manufacturing under ‘Licence’.

Apparently, there is a section of POF called Defence Science & Technology dedicated to R & D but it lacks sufficient funds and the number of qualified personnel. If we really want POF to come up with innovative military technology; at first we would need to allocate adequate resources in men & material then be patient for a few years. But can Pak Army wait that long?

 

[Sine Nomine]

Honorable Sir,

IMO you are asking too much of POF. POF’s main task was to make Pakistan self-sufficient in the manufacture ammunition & small arms requirement of Pak Army. This has been achieved by manufacturing under ‘Licence’.

Apparently, there is a section of POF called Defence Science & Technology dedicated to R & D but it lacks sufficient funds and the number of qualified personnel. If we really want POF to come up with innovative military technology; at first we would need to allocate adequate resources in men & material then be patient for a few years. But can Pak Army wait that long?

Sir,with due respect Ronnie Barrett was no one,he designed M82 rifle,here is his full story

"On January 1, 1982, when Barrett was photographing a river patrol gunboat on the Stones River near Nashville, Tennessee, he created an award-winning picture that made him start thinking about the .50 caliber cartridge because of two Browning machine guns mounted prominently on that boat.

Since no commercially available .50 caliber rifle existed at that time, he decided to make a semi-automatic weapon.With no background in manufacturing or engineering, Barrett sketched a cross-sectioned, full-size rifle, adding different components to it. Once he decided on the concept, he approached some machine shops with his drawings. They told him that if his ideas were any good, someone smarter would have already designed it. However, this did not diminish his determination.
A few days later, Bob Mitchell, a tool and die maker and machinist in Smyrna, Tennessee, agreed to help. After their regular job responsibilities, the men would start working on Barrett’s ideas, sometimes laboring together all night in a one-bay garage using a small mill and lathe. Barrett also found support from a sheet metal fabricator who allowed him to visit the owner’s shop and work directly with one employee, Harry Watson. The resulting gun was the shoulder-fired Barrett rifle, which was created in less than four months."​

If this guy who was no one with nothing in firearm field can design,manufacture and sell a firearm to almost 60 states on planet,why can't our people do that with a plant spanning several km^2?
There is something will and desire to do something,a simple rifle isn't a rocket science neither it requires something we don't have.Small arms don't require any R&D of level which requires huge money.

If POF after 60 years still needs few more years for designing a firearm,better concentrate on acquiring new licence and know how for almost a billion dollor,since we have ample money.

 

[niaz]

Sir,with due respect Ronnie Barrett was no one,he designed M82 rifle,here is his full story

"On January 1, 1982, when Barrett was photographing a river patrol gunboat on the Stones River near Nashville, Tennessee, he created an award-winning picture that made him start thinking about the .50 caliber cartridge because of two Browning machine guns mounted prominently on that boat.

Since no commercially available .50 caliber rifle existed at that time, he decided to make a semi-automatic weapon.With no background in manufacturing or engineering, Barrett sketched a cross-sectioned, full-size rifle, adding different components to it. Once he decided on the concept, he approached some machine shops with his drawings. They told him that if his ideas were any good, someone smarter would have already designed it. However, this did not diminish his determination.
A few days later, Bob Mitchell, a tool and die maker and machinist in Smyrna, Tennessee, agreed to help. After their regular job responsibilities, the men would start working on Barrett’s ideas, sometimes laboring together all night in a one-bay garage using a small mill and lathe. Barrett also found support from a sheet metal fabricator who allowed him to visit the owner’s shop and work directly with one employee, Harry Watson. The resulting gun was the shoulder-fired Barrett rifle, which was created in less than four months."​

If this guy who was no one with nothing in firearm field can design,manufacture and sell a firearm to almost 60 states on planet,why can't our people do that with a plant spanning several km^2?
There is something will and desire to do something,a simple rifle isn't a rocket science neither it requires something we don't have.Small arms don't require any R&D of level which requires huge money.

If PAF after 60 years still needs few more years for designing a firearm,better concentrate on acquiring new licence and know how for almost a billion dollor,since we have ample money.

Thank you.

Firstly the submarine is not a new invention. There are too few parts in a firearm compared to a submarine.
For the submarine, you would need at least 20 geniuses like Ronnie Barrett. So that example does not apply here.

Secondly, only a special kind of person can invent things. Wright brothers were bicycle manufacturers but invented the airplane. Thomas Edison had more than 1000 invention which he patented. Indeed if Pakistan can produce someone with real genius, we can be at the forefront of the technology, but then you will have to wait for him to be born. If by chance that person happens to be a Qadiani or Christian or Hindu, the poor guy would be hounded out of Pakistan by the mullahs; a fate that befell Prof Abdus Salam. You are however welcome to dream on, but in the meantime why not start with the design & manufacture of tractors & automobiles?

 

[ziaulislam]

Question?
Do they work?
If yes who cares if its a clone,as long we dont run into major Issues

 

[Sine Nomine]

Question?
Do they work?
If yes who cares if its a clone,as long we dont run into major Issues

Zia sahab,these clones cost a fortune,still they are a new rifle for one who would use them,Govt still needs to train people on that rifle,on top of that that a clone which is as old as G3 itself has got issues of it's own.

Thank you.

Firstly the submarine is not a new invention. There are too few parts in a firearm compared to a submarine.
For the submarine, you would need at least 20 geniuses like Ronnie Barrett. So that example does not apply here.

Secondly, only a special kind of person can invent things. Wright brothers were bicycle manufacturers but invented the airplane. Thomas Edison had more than 1000 invention which he patented. Indeed if Pakistan can produce someone with real genius, we can be at the forefront of the technology, but then you will have to wait for him to be born. If by chance that person happens to be a Qadiani or Christian or Hindu, the poor guy would be hounded out of Pakistan by the mullahs; a fate that befell Prof Abdus Salam. You are however welcome to dream on, but in the meantime why not start with the design & manufacture of tractors & automobiles?

Sir with due respect Ronnie Barrett designed a simple yet robust Anti-materiel rifle known as light fifty,i think you mixed up things,we are talking about building a new rifle from ground up.
Mullahs do whatever state allows them to do.Designing & manufacturing of tractors & automobiles is not a difficult job for country like Pakistan but we have few issues,any such vanture isn't backed by GoP,people don't invest into this and we don't have huge market to begin such vanture on the other hand a simple rifle is required by GoP for arming almost 2 million+ it's own servants and i am sure few million would be sold also.

 

[Amaa'n]

POF is showing off 3 products they have recently imported from abroad, add LSR and you have 4 products POF has tried to sell to the Army, so far unsuccessfully.

This is mockery. POF is not paying any attention to R&D. They import stuff, cobble it together and try to sell it to the Army as their own product. Of course Army is not foolish and they know how its going.

Take them to Small Industrial Estate, Peshawar, boys there will do a much better job for them on copying a design, instead of having the need to import a piece.

Moonstar was able to copy a very complex design of Grand Power X-calibr with rotating barrel, Royal Arms made a 308 AR10, Farooq bhai is making excellent & jaw dropping glock copies left & right...

The only thing missing from these weapons in metallurgical study & heat treatment, which IF pof gets off it's butt can be done with ease....

 

[Kompromat]

Only the Army can give a jolt to POF. Everyone knows that the solution is to build an ecosystem of SMEs working on fire arms, spares, sights, accessories and upgrades. POF enjoys state monopoly and therefore is incubated from Blowback as the Army is kind of duty bound to purchase some of their products. So POF has no need to invest in R&D. They can simply get licensed production for a western rifle at the cost of a few billion dollars to the taxpayers and go to sleep for another 50 years.

@Foxtrot Alpha

 

[JohnWick]

Only the Army can give a jolt to POF. Everyone knows that the solution is to build an ecosystem of SMEs working on fire arms, spares, sights, accessories and upgrades. POF enjoys state monopoly and therefore is incubated from Blowback as the Army is kind of duty bound to purchase some of their products. So POF has no need to invest in R&D. They can simply get licensed production for a western rifle at the cost of a few billion dollars to the taxpayers and go to sleep for another 50 years.

@Foxtrot Alpha

Pk-18 finalized? If yes then when start inducting?

 

[Kompromat]

I don't think Army is going to hedge its bets on PK-10 (AR-10). If they wanted to, they had Sig & Colt rifles (AR-10 frames) in the competition.

Pk-18 finalized? If yes then when start inducting?

 

[Zhukov]

The problem is Pakistan Army Persistence with 7.62 x 51 Ammunition. They should switch to 5.56 x 45 and get licensed production of CZ Bren 2 or any other modern assault rifle. All modern firearms are designed around the 5.56 x 45 Cartridge.