PIA operates Boeing 737-800 aircraft on wet lease from Turkey

[ziaulislam]

Wrong on two of those points. An A320 is both cheaper to buy and dry lease or wet lease.o unprofitable destinations like Tokyo, Beijing, New York etc.

wow so billion dollars are loss by flying a single service to chitral that to once a week with mini plan propellar plan and fares nearly as expensive as any other money making private enterprise
talk about BS

and every service lose money for PIA because the way it operates
still doesn't answer my question

 

[SherDil]

PIA Becomes the First Pakistani Airline to Fly Boeing 737-800 Aircraft

The two Boeing 737-800 aircraft obtained by PIA on wet lease from a Turkish operator earlier this week are being put into operation from today. No other airline in Pakistan is currently using this model of aircraft.



These aircraft have been obtained for a period of three months and two more similar aircraft are expected to join PIA’s fleet in the coming weeks.

The decision of acquiring these aircraft has been taken in order to meet the immediate shortage of aircrafts, due to the grounding of four aged A-310 planes at the end of last year.

The narrow-body aircraft have a capacity of carrying 189 passengers in an all-economy configuration.

The two aircraft will be used in six flights today. These include PK-316 (Karachi-Lahore), PK-317 (Lahore-Karachi), PK-306 (Karachi-Lahore), PK-307 (Lahore-Karachi), PK-380 (Karachi-Multan-Islamabad) and PK-319 (Islamabad-Karachi).

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Cheaper how? Not knowing what price PIA is leasing the aircraft for, I'm assuming it's a substantial savings to acquire a completely new aircraft type and the costs associated with it. Why didn't they just lease 737-800s before taking the A320s? PIA did operate the 737-300s beforehand, and it's pilots could easily been trained to fly 737-800s.

Wet lease saves many things. PIA is currently short of money hence experienced pilots are trying to leave. most of the companies providing aircraft are not interested to provide aircraft on dry lease.

Most of the airlines opt for wet-lease as this is profit making option. All the costs are paid for in the lease per hour hence what ever is made over this is profit.

Wrong on two of those points. An A320 is both cheaper to buy and dry lease or wet lease.

Typical A320 airline empty weight 42.5t. Max zero fuel weight 62.5t which gives a max payload around 20t.

737-800 empty weight 42t , mzfw 62.7 with max payload a little over 20t.

How on earth is the payload difference between the two models anywhere near 20%?



The BS that has destroyed PIA is having to offer a taxi service to Northern Areas like Gilgit/Chitral and having fly to unprofitable destinations like Tokyo, Beijing, New York etc.

Unprofitable routes can not be closed specially those of the northern areas. This is now protected through the Supreme court order as well as under the Constitution. If PIA does not operate aircraft it has to provide an alternate transport which is Taxi service. This is one of the main problem that might hamper any privatization.

New York is not profitable with technical landing. It is profitable if direct flights are allowed or through the closed sectors AMS, CDG & FRA - JFK .

Tokyo sector via PEK is not viable but it would be if Silk Route is reopened.
BKK- MNL- NRT.

This wet lease seems to be a wet dream of someone in the top office of PIA. They are deliberately destroying the airline so that its privatisation can be justified.

Most of the airlines opt for wet-lease as this is profit making option. All the costs are paid for in the lease per hour hence what ever is made over this is profit.

 

[imiakhtar]

wow so billion dollars are loss by flying a single service to chitral that to once a week with mini plan propellar plan and fares nearly as expensive as any other money making private enterprise
talk about BS

and every service lose money for PIA because the way it operates
still doesn't answer my question

You have issues with reading comprehension. One route no. But when all your regional prop routes AND 20+ international destinations are losing money, yes you lose money, a lot of it. Especially when you have a weak currency like Pakistan and your costs (as is the norm for aviation) are in dollars. Fuel, aircraft parts and consumables, financing etc are all in dollars

That explains why PIA's largest financial losses have always been when fuel prices were high, particularly when over 3USD/gallon.

(I worked as a network manager for British Airways at Heathrow Waterside so I know what it costs to finance, fuel, maintain and fly a jet fleet)

Most of the airlines opt for wet-lease as this is profit making option. All the costs are paid for in the lease per hour hence what ever is made over this is profit.

False. Very few airlines opt for wet lease as in the long run, it's more expensive than dry leasing. Saudi airlines is the only large carrier making large scale use for wet lease. Wet lease makes sense for Saudia given their variable hajj and umrah peak seasons.

PIA is currently short of money hence experienced pilots are trying to leave. most of the companies providing aircraft are not interested to provide aircraft on dry lease.

There is no shortage of aircraft being offered for dry lease and companies are more than happy to offer aircraft for such tenders. Have a look at past PIA narrowbody tender results, no shortage of aircraft offered there and PIA often has 5+ companies offering dry lease aircraft for each tender.

 

[SecretMission]

Wrong on two of those points. An A320 is both cheaper to buy and dry lease or wet lease.

Typical A320 airline empty weight 42.5t. Max zero fuel weight 62.5t which gives a max payload around 20t.

737-800 empty weight 42t , mzfw 62.7 with max payload a little over 20t.

How on earth is the payload difference between the two models anywhere near 20%?

I think you should study more about commercial aircraft's. Both aircraft's nearly having same max takeoff weight( NOT PAYLOAD) Because 737-800 is almost 10% more longer in Length, Carry 4% less Fuel, 7% More Seating space, 18% More Baggage space, 25% more Payload.

Airbus A320NEO (New Engine Option) Price $107 million
Boieng 737-800 Next Gen Price $ 95 million

 

[imiakhtar]

I think you should study more about commercial aircraft's.

Secret missions. I worked as a network manager at British Airways. I know how much payload an A320 can carry and how to calculate it. The information is publicly available for you to do the same.

Payload is calculated by subtracting operating empty weight from max zero fuel weight. I've done the sums for you in my initial reply. You are the one who claimed the 737-800 carried 20% more payload. Payload in airline definition is weight. The 737-800 in the real world can carry at most 700-800kg more than the A320. That is not a 20% payload difference. Also, it's quite clear YOU are the one who does not know what he is talking about. Let's see here:

Because 737-800 is almost 10% more longer in Length, Carry 4% less Fuel, 7% More Seating space, 18% More Baggage space, 25% more Payload.

Airbus A320NEO (New Engine Option) Price $107 million
Boieng 737-800 Next Gen Price $ 95 million

Point 1 Length - Aircraft length doesn't matter to airlines. Pax capacity does. Real world you get 1 or 2 more rows of seats into 737-800.

Point 2 - The 737-800 doesn't carry less fuel than the A320. It actually carries quite a lot more. The A320 carries 18.7t at max fuel and the 737-800 a little over 20.5t.

Point 3 - seating space I've covered in point 1 but yet the slightly higher pax capacity of the 737-800 is a plus.

Point 4 baggage - A320 baggage volume 37.3m3, 737-800 volume 43.6m3. Both baggage volume capacities are adequate for 180+ passengers.

Point 5 - A320 payload 20t, 737-800 20.7t. 700kg more payload which is not 25%

Point 6 - Airlines don't pay catalogue prices for aircraft. Also, you can't compare a320neo with 737-800. Best comparison would be with 737-8 (max version).

Real world airliner price A320 44-47m USD, 737-800 47-49m USD

Next time you come to debate an aviation topic, make sure you have a clue of what you're talking about.