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PIA downgraded to one-star airline

At a minimum, our incompetent transport minister should be sacked for his callous handling of this situation.

This minister deserves a gold medal for hastening the death of the dysfunctional and corrupt PIA. I hope other ministers ring the alarm on PSM and Pakistan Railways. In fact, someone please setup a gofundme for the minister, I will personally donate the first money.
 
Today all pilots even the genuine ones are getting the brunt of the blunder made by the Pakistani government to ruin the reputation of all of them because of some pilots having got their licenses through fake means. That day is not far away when the illiterate people running the regime in Pakistan will also ruin the reputation of all the Pakistani engineers and doctors of this country on international level because they will find that some engineers or doctors have got their degree through fake means. And then Pakistani engineers and doctors will also be kicked out of their jobs due to bad reputation. Then this country will go back to stone age where these illiterate ministers and so-called "leaders" will gladly live with there stone age tools.

I am sorry, but any institution that employs fake professionals should be called out. If PIA has even 1 fake pilot, it’s the right thing to call that pilot out. People’s lives are at risk and transparency demands. Accountability over fake tears. PIA can go to hell if that means saving even one innocent passenger. The fact a grown up person is arguing that the saga of fake pilots should have remained a state secret is astonishing.
 
I think we are on right path , knowing your mistake is first thing
The pilots will be replaced and the healing process must start

This stings , to see PIA suffer unfortunately the corrective measures will need to be taken about Pilots replacement with well trained Pilots
 
All this news about PIA means only one thing - It will be Privatized.
 
All move aborad. To find better lives for themselves and family.
This country din’t allow them opportunity to succeed. Terrible pay, work benefits and over workload on top of that. You stuggle 6-7 years abroad and you find directon in life. In Pakistan you keep stuggling your entire lives and don’t get anywhere.who’d want to stay?

Some qualified and experienced personal who do return to help the country get treated like shit by sifarshi elites or incompetent incels who believe no one is better than them.

There are two types of talented and qualified people.

1- The visionaries and idealists who are never given enough power to make substantial impact. The system will chew and grind them and spit them out until they give up.

2- Those who are brilliant but stooges of some political elite. They are given power to turn things around but they use it just to serve personal interests. Example is Shahid Khaqan Abbasi. The guy is as intimate with aviation industry as one can get. He has a pilot license and qualifications in aviation management. When he was appointed by NS as the chairman of PIA (1997 - 1999) people thought here is the right guy for the right job but as it turned out he was there only to run the competition (PIA) into the ground in order to setup his own private airline which would also serve as a laundry and cargo service for the dirty money of his masters.
 
All this news about PIA means only one thing - It will be Privatized.

Dead horses don't win cups, who will want to buy this airline? Scrap it and start new. But i am afraid that the fate of the new airline will be along the same lines.

There are two types of talented and qualified people.

1- The visionaries and idealists who are never given enough power to make substantial impact. The system will chew and grind them and spit them out until they give up.

2- Those who are brilliant but stooges of some political elite. They are given power to turn things around but they use it just to serve personal interests. Example is Shahid Khaqan Abbasi. The guy is as intimate with aviation industry as one can get. He has a pilot license and qualifications in aviation management. When he was appointed by NS as the chairman of PIA (1997 - 1999) people thought here is the right guy for the right job but as it turned out he was there only to run the competition (PIA) into the ground in order to setup his own private airline which would also serve as a laundry and cargo service for the dirty money of his masters.

Pakistan has become a country of Mir jaffars and Abu-Jahl.
 
Dead horses don't win cups, who will want to buy this airline? Scrap it and start new. But i am afraid that the fate of the new airline will be along the same lines.



Pakistan has become a country of Mir jaffars and Abu-Jahl.

Askari Airlines with ex pilots and staff crew of Shaheen
 
Askari Airlines with ex pilots and staff crew of Shaheen

Not everything has to be ''Askari''. Military has better things to do. They should stick to what they are best at. There is enough talent among civilians to run a profitable airline. Carriers of gulf countries are full of such people. Due to recent financial stress caused by COVID-19 many are facing job loss and pay-cuts. It is high time we bring this cream into the fold to utilize their potential for national benefit.
 
Blink of an eye? Are you saying that PIA had a good reputation just before the revelation (which is from the country itself not from an outside investigation which would have been much worse)?

Wrong choice of wording, perhaps better to say it was all made worse and reputation further soiled publicly and internationally in the blink of an eye. Read below for my full argument.

What exactly would you assign this to? The minister mentioning the fake licensing ratio at PIA and Pak aviation sector in general?

I have contrarian view maybe on that, because it would be better for Pak govt to openly admit this and take the hit and work to fix it the long hard way.

If they kept this figure under wraps and pushed under carpet, it would inevitably surface another way and the longer consequences will be worse.

Ofc, ideally pak govt would have done a full thorough investigation of critical sectors licensing norms and prevalences esp by admin/party that seemingly got elected on large basis of fresh approach to anti-status quo and tackling rooted corruption etc.

It's not that they have fake licenses most of those that have been accused. As I understand it in my own admittedly limited understanding this is an issue caused by steps taken at the CAA and changes that weren't enforced properly. To say that so many pilots of PIA carry fake licenses is wrong, and to imply that they're all incapable of flying is absolutely and categorically wrong.

So CAA is in charge of giving licenses, if a pilot is certified to fly, this is the agency that governs this sector. The licenses in question are ATPLs, up until 2012, I believe there was no issue with the licensing issue that has been raised. Then the CAA added some exams on to the curriculum, requiring all pilots to go back and complete this. But it was never properly enforced. A lot of pilots found loop holes, others didn't sit, some sent their juniors on their behalf etc. Others whose names are on that list are deceased pilots, retired, and some carry APTLs from the US and abroad and didn't have Pakistani ones. But all of these pilots were trained from cadet pilots upwards, they all have I've heard quoted a minimum of flying 1500hrs. This is the standard procedure in all major countries, >1500hrs and an APTL. Different airlines can then add and enforce more requirements, and they generally do. But this dumbass minister gets up in NA, not doing his homework, says that all these pilots have fake licenses, categorically fake. And he's basically soiled the reputation of the entire airline industry in Pakistan, Pakistani pilots in general and abroad are being grounded everywhere. And int'l media took him at his word and ran headlines implying that 1/3 of our pilots have fake licenses.

Is there an actual problem? Yes, some pilots must have skipped some additional requirements made in 2012 or so by the CAA, or made shortcuts. Several may have even had 'dubious' licenses as PIA themselves said. Were most of these pilots licensed to fly and had hours under their belts already? Yes as I understand it. We've gone from that, to telling the world that our pilots forged their fake licenses and incapable of flying. This comes off of the back of the recent PIA crash investigation, which I may add is not at all complete. So really it's CAA where the problem is, of standards and enforcement. Our government has thrown entire airline industry and pilots under the bus. And then they had the courtesy to reverse over them to make sure they're absolutely dead. It's stunning and unprecedented incompetence.

I may be wrong on some details, but more knowledgeable people than I are basically assessing this as the situation.

I would suggest reading a little in detail if you're interested:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1566500

In fact, Pakistani members here who aren't understanding my objection need a read a little bit further. Nobody's saying PIA didn't have problems, we had multiple problems that haven't been addressed and have built up over years. This latest act by our minister was a example of reputation arson.

At a minimum, our incompetent transport minister should be sacked for his callous handling of this situation.

Absolutely, nobody is saying that our airline industry and PIA doesn't have it its problems. Our safety regulations are lax, CAA is a mess and needs a complete change, PIA has been mismanaged for years under successive governments, and its been a financial drain beyond any reasonable allowance.

But this latest step was the equivalent of taking a sickly organisation and sticking a final knife into it, along with a great deal of our int'l reputation.
 
Not everything has to be ''Askari''. Military has better things to do. They should stick to what they are best at. There is enough talent among civilians to run a profitable airline. Carriers of gulf countries are full of such people. Due to recent financial stress caused by COVID-19 many are facing job loss and pay-cuts. It is high time we bring this cream into the fold to utilize their potential for national benefit.

What are other local players? apart from Askari we have AirSial, Go Green, and Liberty Air with licenses issued in 2019, i personally think PIA would be sold to Emirates or Air China (DOH!!!)
 
Wrong choice of wording, perhaps better to say it was all made worse and reputation further soiled publicly and internationally in the blink of an eye. Read below for my full argument.



It's not that they have fake licenses most of those that have been accused. As I understand it in my own admittedly limited understanding this is an issue caused by steps taken at the CAA and changes that weren't enforced properly. To say that so many pilots of PIA carry fake licenses is wrong, and to imply that they're all incapable of flying is absolutely and categorically wrong.

So CAA is in charge of giving licenses, if a pilot is certified to fly, this is the agency that governs this sector. The licenses in question are ATPLs, up until 2012, I believe there was no issue with the licensing issue that has been raised. Then the CAA added some exams on to the curriculum, requiring all pilots to go back and complete this. But it was never properly enforced. A lot of pilots found loop holes, others didn't sit, some sent their juniors on their behalf etc. Others whose names are on that list are deceased pilots, retired, and some carry APTLs from the US and abroad and didn't have Pakistani ones. But all of these pilots were trained from cadet pilots upwards, they all have I've heard quoted a minimum of flying 1500hrs. This is the standard procedure in all major countries, >1500hrs and an APTL. Different airlines can then add and enforce more requirements, and they generally do. But this dumbass minister gets up in NA, not doing his homework, says that all these pilots have fake licenses, categorically fake. And he's basically soiled the reputation of the entire airline industry in Pakistan, Pakistani pilots in general and abroad are being grounded everywhere. And int'l media took him at his word and ran headlines implying that 1/3 of our pilots have fake licenses.

Is there an actual problem? Yes, some pilots must have skipped some additional requirements made in 2012 or so by the CAA, or made shortcuts. Several may have even had 'dubious' licenses as PIA themselves said. Were most of these pilots licensed to fly and had hours under their belts already? Yes as I understand it. We've gone from that, to telling the world that our pilots forged their fake licenses and incapable of flying. This comes off of the back of the recent PIA crash investigation, which I may add is not at all complete. So really it's CAA where the problem is, of standards and enforcement. Our government has thrown entire airline industry and pilots under the bus. And then they had the courtesy to reverse over them to make sure they're absolutely dead. It's stunning and unprecedented incompetence.

I may be wrong on some details, but more knowledgeable people than I are basically assessing this as the situation.

I would suggest reading a little in detail if you're interested:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1566500

In fact, Pakistani members here who aren't understanding my objection need a read a little bit further. Nobody's saying PIA didn't have problems, we had multiple problems that haven't been addressed and have built up over years. This latest act by our minister was a example of reputation arson.



Absolutely, nobody is saying that our airline industry and PIA doesn't have it its problems. Our safety regulations are lax, CAA is a mess and needs a complete change, PIA has been mismanaged for years under successive governments, and its been a financial drain beyond any reasonable allowance.

But this latest step was the equivalent of taking a sickly organisation and sticking a final knife into it, along with a great deal of our int'l reputation.

Thanks buddy, you have made it a lot clearer to me now.
 
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