Philippines Defence Forum

[Cossack25A1]

Well one the US congress is and always the deciding factor of foreign sales the US makes so in their end what congress does not want to sell or like to is up to the US congress second the DND is looking at other countries namely South Korea, France, Italy, Germany and Israel and others sources due to our budget limitations so its not like we dont want US military Items we have to fit them over our limited budget.



No we are its just we have a budget and its limited second the US items on offer is good but we simply dont want a repeat of the F8 3rd we are looking more other sources like South Korea, EU (mostly Poland, France, Germany and Italy and some in iteams form the UK) and Israel possibily Sweden and Russia to fit our budget and for strategic proposes as well.

What was the issue about the F-8 Crusader as the only news I know about it is that it got hammered by Mt. Pinatubo when it erupted. I mean, Uncle Sam gave us this instead of F-4 or F-15 and we could have bought "spare parts" from other decommissioned F-8s unless US already sold them as scrap the moment we acquired the jets.

 

[Viet]

Then they could have offered us the Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate instead of the Hamilton-class cutters and C models of the F-16 and/or F/A-18 because I feel that the F-16s they offer are the "A" models..

Yes we are but I doubt that they will give us any advance weapons without anything in return.

I don´t get it. Indonesia gets many modern toys from America and Germany lately, from aircraft, to heli to tanks.
you should be able to afford such things as well. on paper, your GDP is bigger than ours. where is the money?

 

[Cossack25A1]

I don´t get it. Indonesia gets many modern toys from America and Germany lately, from aircraft, to heli to tanks.
you should be able to afford such things as well. on paper, your GDP is bigger than ours. where is the money?

In the pockets of corrupt politicians, lawyers, police chiefs and generals.

 

[Dante]

Hi zero_wing
Thanks for the reply

But I honestly do hope that the Philippines can increase their defense budget more,
with the increasing cost of military tech and, the mounting burden of pension and retirement cost, I'm afraid the Philippines simply cannot keep up with the rest of the world militarily

I understand lesson are learned on F-8 deals, but I believe PAF official during that time know enough that the fighter should be replace by other fighter after 10 years in service
So I believe the problem were too aggravated by lack of planning on the Philippines part

And I completely agree with you on the idea of
outsourcing military hardware from other nations, but again military build up will never survive without long term commitment, politically and financially

And I wish the best for the Philippines, because I think a strong Philippine and strong ASEAN members is a stable ASEAN

No we are its just we have a budget and its limited second the US items on offer is good but we simply dont want a repeat of the F8 3rd we are looking more other sources like South Korea, EU (mostly Poland, France, Germany and Italy and some in iteams form the UK) and Israel possibily Sweden and Russia to fit our budget and for strategic proposes as well.

If my brain serve me right, the F-8 Crusader were grounded after just 5 years in service from its 10 years service life, because lack of spare.....and then the pinatubo disaster happens and destroy all the grounded fighter

What was the issue about the F-8 Crusader as the only news I know about it is that it got hammered by Mt. Pinatubo when it erupted.

 

[Zero_wing]

Hi zero_wing
Thanks for the reply

But I honestly do hope that the Philippines can increase their defense budget more,
with the increasing cost of military tech and, the mounting burden of pension and retirement cost, I'm afraid the Philippines simply cannot keep up with the rest of the world militarily

I understand lesson are learned on F-8 deals, but I believe PAF official during that time know enough that the fighter should be replace by other fighter after 10 years in service
So I believe the problem were too aggravated by lack of planning on the Philippines part

And I completely agree with you on the idea of
outsourcing military hardware from other nations, but again military build up will never survive without long term commitment, politically and financially

And I wish the best for the Philippines, because I think a strong Philippine and strong ASEAN members is a stable ASEAN





If my brain serve me right, the F-8 Crusader were grounded after just 5 years in service from its 10 years service life, because lack of spare.....and then the pinatubo disaster happens and destroy all the grounded fighter

Yes because of lack of funds and spares to begain with mother nature just put other nail on the coffen dont get me wrong the F8 a good fighter in fact the best the Philippines ever had and frankly will never have again but not good for the budget of the Philippines in my opnion of the current administration efforts they are trying to prevent that and building support for the items we are going to buy and maintain. So its a slow but a right way of doing things we cant have a strong military over night it needs to be build bit by bit i only wish we had leaders who gives a flying f about sooner. But better late than never.

In the pockets of corrupt politicians, lawyers, police chiefs and generals.

Not Just that its also allocation of funds and political will on the part of the government to do so.

I don´t get it. Indonesia gets many modern toys from America and Germany lately, from aircraft, to heli to tanks.
you should be able to afford such things as well. on paper, your GDP is bigger than ours. where is the money?

True but you have policy base on military streaghting along with nation building we have policy of building the Nation building and lastly the on the barrel is the military and the police so you put that with a limited budget for maintaince, operations and modernizations discounting corruption its a bad mix and the lack of political will does not help things even if you have money its still up to political will and the policies of that country to make things happen but good news we are slowly making things and moving at the right way of thinking its slow but i take it over nothing.

 

[Dante]

I don´t get it. Indonesia gets many modern toys from America and Germany lately, from aircraft, to heli to tanks.
you should be able to afford such things as well. on paper, your GDP is bigger than ours. where is the money?

The problem in the Philippines is that their defense budget at 2.8B usd are only enough mostly for operational and retirement-pension cost

Indonesia on the other hand had much larger defense budget at average 8B usd yearly and 15B usd military modernization fund on top of that for a period of five year

 

[baukiki88]

Uncle Sam doesn't trust us that much with more advance weapons.

In my opinion, I think it is possible that the US did not give Philippines F-16 or F-18 is because they want philippines to be always dependent on US and hence, a long term presence of military base in philippine

The problem in the Philippines is that their defense budget at 2.8B usd are only enough mostly for operational and retirement-pension cost

Indonesia on the other hand had much larger defense budget at average 8B usd yearly and 15B usd military modernization fund on top of that for a period of five year

Dante, 8B + 15 B = 24B. but the military equipments procurement from 2009-2014 ( Jet fighters, Sub, munitions, choppers, navys, etc ) cost 10B the Most. Where did the rest of the money go??

 

[Zero_wing]

In my opinion, I think it is possible that the US did not give Philippines F-16 or F-18 is because they want philippines to be always dependent on US and hence, a long term presence of military base in philippine


Dante, 8B + 15 B = 24B. but the military equipments procurement from 2009-2014 ( Jet fighters, Sub, munitions, choppers, navys, etc ) cost 10B the Most. Where did the rest of the money go??

That would be fine since we have other places to buy arms but sadly its a 3rd priority of the country again slow but better than nothing and about comparing the Philippines to Indonesia is not a good first the Philippines did not have a good Self reliance program but Inodnesia manage to build and continue to maintain one while the Philippines let all down thanks to the Anti Marcos idiots and the maoist in congress the so called makabayan bloc in fact after the 90s majority of the support structures and programs were all scrap simply because it was started by marcos they did not see the value of keeping them running or continuing it to support it even though there are laws that tells that the Philippine Government must support filipino products and any form of self relience programs in general but it was deeply politicize but this groups.

 

[Cossack25A1]

In my opinion, I think it is possible that the US did not give Philippines F-16 or F-18 is because they want philippines to be always dependent on US and hence, a long term presence of military base in philippine


Dante, 8B + 15 B = 24B. but the military equipments procurement from 2009-2014 ( Jet fighters, Sub, munitions, choppers, navys, etc ) cost 10B the Most. Where did the rest of the money go??

In the end, we ended up with F-5s and F-8s with the F-8 being decommissioned first due to Mt. Pinatubo and the F-5s were decommissioned way back in 2005, leaving us with no jet fighters for 9 years.

 

[Dante]

Dante, 8B + 15 B = 24B. but the military equipments procurement from 2009-2014 ( Jet fighters, Sub, munitions, choppers, navys, etc ) cost 10B the Most. Where did the rest of the money go??

I think you got it wrong

The 8B is annual defense budget, which basically gone for operational cost, maintenance, military operation and exercise, education and training, administrative, pension fund, some research etc.....the annual defense budget might be used for procuring some basic military equipment, but in very small number

And the big ticket item like subs, fighter jet, mbt were bought using the 15B military modernization fund, which the govt have to spend those money in 5 years or about 3B annually in average

As you kind of notice, that the govt have spended some 10B of the 15B modernization budget
The rest of the money had been used for revitalizing Indonesian strategic industries, direct and indirect to military industries

like PT PAL, in which they get a substantial funds for modernizing their equipment, building several new shipyards facilities including a new shipyard for building submarine, and some of the money are for restructuring their management and work force. The same situation happen to the numerous Indonesia strategic industries

A portion of it also gone for extensive R & D budget, like for medium tank, the KFX/IFX, artillery rocket, UAV, cruise missile etc
And some for license production of several military equipment and hardware

The aim is not only for modernizing Indonesian armed forces military hardware, but also for strengthening self-reliant defense posture program

I'm sorry for this off topic discussion

 

[DarkElf]

In my opinion, I think it is possible that the US did not give Philippines F-16 or F-18 is because they want philippines to be always dependent on US and hence, a long term presence of military base in philippine

Too far fetched, there's no guarantee that philippine will only buy US made jet only. Beside as last resort, as long as they have the money, good chance Russia willing to sell to them.

 

[Zero_wing]

Too far fetched, there's no guarantee that philippine will only buy US made jet only. Beside as last resort, as long as they have the money, good chance Russia willing to sell to them.

Yes Russia did in fact they did offer many times even so far as to even want to joint develop arms here but even though the Russians are willing but the problem will be in our end not just the lack of will but we have to change everything overnight not an option for us though as i said we are finding other sources for arms not just the US the days of us have the best US equipment is over we are on our own on this issue.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Tell me something new! Old news but true.
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Philippines Named as One of the Most Racist Countries in the World - When In Manila
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Philippines Named as One of the Most Racist Countries in the World
By WhenInManila Contributor on April 12, 2014

Recent data from the World Value Survey shows that the Philippines is one of the most racist countries in the world.

This survey basically asked people what kinds of people they wouldn’t want to live near and then counted the amount of people who chose ‘people of a different race’ for each country. Apparently, societies, in which people wouldn’t want to live near other races are considered to be more racially intolerant.



Philippines Named as One of the Most Racist Countries in the World


The global social attitudes study claims that the most racially intolerant populations are all in the developing world, with Jordan and India in the top five.

While the country with the most racially intolerant people is Jordan, with 51.4% not wanting to live near another race, India is close behind with 43.5%. The Philippines lies in the 20 to 29.9% bracket along with other countries like Thailand, France, Malaysia, Bangladesh and Hong Kong; only below counties such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Vietnam, Indonesia, South Korea in the 30-39.% bracket.

The most racially tolerant countries are mostly Western countries, such as Britain, Canada, Australia and the U.S. In fact, only 3.8% of U.S. residents are reluctant to live near another race.

 

[Aepsilons]

Any updates on those T-50s and the Pohang Class Corvette?

 

[Cossack25A1]

Any updates on those T-50s and the Pohang Class Corvette?

First delivery of the KAI T-50 would be around September-October 2015 after 18 months of signing the contract which was made way back on March 28, 2014.

As for the Pohang-class ship, no news about it.