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Philippine military seeks probe against Indian commander

all he wanted was..........to keep these troops alive.......he was thinking rationally i guess

If Gen Singha wants to save those Fiji troops...why don't he order his Indian troops there to surrender their arms and become hostages of these barbaric terrorists. Why would us, Filipinos, sacrifice for the incompetence of this Indian general??? Those Fiji troops would not be hostages today if Gen Singha didn't order them to surrender.

I hope the Indian gov't would fire this incompetent general.
 
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In the scenario of surrender or die the option surrender was chosen. Either way the commander was screwed.
 
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Should Fiji troops be in Syria as UN peacekeepers?

By NICK PERRY and PITA LIGAIULA23 hours ago

"The question running through the commander's mind was, 'Do I become a tiger and fight? Or do I become a cat and fight another day?'" Tikoitoga said.

"It's the duty of every soldier to not be disarmed, to resist being captured," he said. "It's a shock to every former soldier like me to know this has happened. It's quite a big blow to our martial traditions. Fijians have been known as warriors down through the ages."


Should Fiji troops be in Syria as UN peacekeepers? - Yahoo News
 
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It is an extraordinary act of cowardice by the Filipino army soldiers, not to mention a show of poor discipline and no respect for the chain of command.

Its funny to see this act of cowardice being celebrated as an act of heroism :cheesy:

They are calling it the "great escape" :lol: from the hands of a rag tag militia !!!!

In the future NO ONE from the UN would want to work with filipino soldiers. They have brought shame and disrepute to their nation.
 
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It is an extraordinary act of cowardice by the Filipino army soldiers, not to mention a show of poor discipline and no respect for the chain of command.

Catapang added that this action of the Philippine side did not contradict the UNDOF orders as troops contributing countries have leeway to countermand orders when it affects their national interest like continued security and safety of their military personnel.

UNDOF commander rejected resignation of Filipino chief-of-staff - AFP

We're allowed not to follow stupid Indian general orders.:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
Fiji troops followed Gen Singha's order to surrender...and now they are regretting it.

It is an extraordinary act of cowardice by the Filipino army soldiers, .

Engaging a vastly superior force(300-350 armed thugs) for 7 hours and killing three and then only withdrawing from their besieged position after their ammo ran low is "cowardice"?

Low ammo prompted Filipino peacekeepers to bolt Position 68
By: Priam F. Nepomuceno, Philippine News Agency
September 3, 2014 3:14 AM

MANILA, Philippines -- Low ammunition supplies prompted the 40 Filipino peacekeepers from Position 68 to make a daring night-time escape across a minefield early Sunday morning (Syrian time).

It was either that or face the possibility of being massacred by the Al-Qaeda-affiliated Syrian rebels whom the Filipinos traded shots with for more than seven hours, said Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) chief-of-staff Gen. Gregorio Pio Catapang on Tuesday, divulging the conversation he had with the Filipino peacekeepers via video conference who narrated to him the details of what happened.

"As a backgrounder, our peacekeepers in Position 68 and 69 were surrounded by the rebels. And then they (Syrian rebels) brought two Fijian officers; they wanted to show that the 44 Fijians were hostaged. They were negotiating with us to lay down our firearms," he disclosed.


This took place during the early part of the stand-off Thursday morning (Syrian time).

However, the Filipinos peacekeepers stood their ground while looking for a means to solve the deadlock between the two forces.

"We told them, you want the firearms, you ask the Fijians to give another 44 firearms. So our firearms is not for giving. It’s a great dishonor for us if we give up our firearms," the AFP chief quoted the Filipino peacekeepers.

During the negotiation, the Syrian rebels became impatient and attacked the Filipino soldiers Saturday morning (Syrian time).

"And they (Syrian rebels) attacked us for seven hours. So what shall we do? And when they were already tired attacking us, they again asked for a negotiation of the ceasefire," the Filipino peacekeepers told the AFP chief.

While talks were ongoing, Catapang said the Philippine peacekeepers were monitoring the enemy who were observed to be regrouping and amassing.

At this point, an order from United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) commander Lt. Gen. Igbal Singh Singha came through telling Filipino troops that "once you are again attacked, the best thing to do, the order is, surrender your firearms (and) put up the white flag."

The order, Catapang said, was not negotiable.

He added that the AFP contingent to Golan Heights already had an idea the Syrian rebels will attack the following morning.

"So we had to make the greatest escape for the soldiers," he said.

"So, from that time on, we assessed, they were coming in with reinforcements, then we think that the following day (Sunday), we will be attacked again. And that will be the end of it. We will be massacred, as the good Secretary Voltaire Gazmin stated. Because we didn’t want the people to know, we had a news blackout, they (Filipino troops) were low of ammunition," he revealed.

By this time, the ammunition of the Filipino peacekeepers were already depleted after the seven-hour long firefight with Syrian rebels Saturday.

"So we planned for the greatest escape. And hopefully, with God’s grace, the area was … it was not foggy, and we were able to run in the middle of the night when the rebels were sleeping," he said.

"We made our greatest escape because it was a difficult escape route, because the route that we will pass through has mines, it was also mined. We had a guide, Capt. (Nilo) Ramones, the company commander," he added.

The AFP chief said the 40 Filipino troops from position 68 went down from their post.

When asked if they were not aided by UN armored personnel carriers in their attempt, the AFP official said: "Gen. Singha ordered no military operations."

"We were fortunate that we were reinforced (and extricated by the Irish contingent) in Position 69. But unfortunately, they really wanted us to surrender and give our firearms in Position 68," Catapang said.

"So, it’s still to be investigated, why the order of Gen. Singha was, there will be no reinforcement. Because he was already there, we were monitoring him. And then all of a sudden, he changed his mind. And then, another negotiation came in. When he told us that if the next attack comes in, surrender your firearms, put up the white flag," the AFP chief said.

Catapang said the Filipino peacekeepers were trying to inform Singha of their escape plans but the latter told Col. Ezra Enrique (UNDOF chief-of-staff) that he does not want to hear the escape plans of the Filipinos
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Low ammo prompted Filipino peacekeepers to bolt Position 68


I"m wondering why are there Indian nationals defending this incompetent Indian general who's fit only for latrine duty. Gen. Singha should be sacked immmediately and replaced.
 
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Catapang added that this action of the Philippine side did not contradict the UNDOF orders as troops contributing countries have leeway to countermand orders when it affects their national interest like continued security and safety of their military personnel.

UNDOF commander rejected resignation of Filipino chief-of-staff - AFP

We're allowed not to follow stupid Indian general orders.:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
Fiji troops followed Gen Singha's order to surrender...and now they are regretting it.



Engaging a vastly superior force(300-350 armed thugs) for 7 hours and killing three and then only withdrawing from their besieged position after their ammo ran low is "cowardice"?

Low ammo prompted Filipino peacekeepers to bolt Position 68
By: Priam F. Nepomuceno, Philippine News Agency
September 3, 2014 3:14 AM

MANILA, Philippines -- Low ammunition supplies prompted the 40 Filipino peacekeepers from Position 68 to make a daring night-time escape across a minefield early Sunday morning (Syrian time).

It was either that or face the possibility of being massacred by the Al-Qaeda-affiliated Syrian rebels whom the Filipinos traded shots with for more than seven hours, said Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) chief-of-staff Gen. Gregorio Pio Catapang on Tuesday, divulging the conversation he had with the Filipino peacekeepers via video conference who narrated to him the details of what happened.

"As a backgrounder, our peacekeepers in Position 68 and 69 were surrounded by the rebels. And then they (Syrian rebels) brought two Fijian officers; they wanted to show that the 44 Fijians were hostaged. They were negotiating with us to lay down our firearms," he disclosed.

This took place during the early part of the stand-off Thursday morning (Syrian time).

However, the Filipinos peacekeepers stood their ground while looking for a means to solve the deadlock between the two forces.

"We told them, you want the firearms, you ask the Fijians to give another 44 firearms. So our firearms is not for giving. It’s a great dishonor for us if we give up our firearms," the AFP chief quoted the Filipino peacekeepers.

During the negotiation, the Syrian rebels became impatient and attacked the Filipino soldiers Saturday morning (Syrian time).

"And they (Syrian rebels) attacked us for seven hours. So what shall we do? And when they were already tired attacking us, they again asked for a negotiation of the ceasefire," the Filipino peacekeepers told the AFP chief.

While talks were ongoing, Catapang said the Philippine peacekeepers were monitoring the enemy who were observed to be regrouping and amassing.

At this point, an order from United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) commander Lt. Gen. Igbal Singh Singha came through telling Filipino troops that "once you are again attacked, the best thing to do, the order is, surrender your firearms (and) put up the white flag."

The order, Catapang said, was not negotiable.

He added that the AFP contingent to Golan Heights already had an idea the Syrian rebels will attack the following morning.

"So we had to make the greatest escape for the soldiers," he said.

"So, from that time on, we assessed, they were coming in with reinforcements, then we think that the following day (Sunday), we will be attacked again. And that will be the end of it. We will be massacred, as the good Secretary Voltaire Gazmin stated. Because we didn’t want the people to know, we had a news blackout, they (Filipino troops) were low of ammunition," he revealed.

By this time, the ammunition of the Filipino peacekeepers were already depleted after the seven-hour long firefight with Syrian rebels Saturday.

"So we planned for the greatest escape. And hopefully, with God’s grace, the area was … it was not foggy, and we were able to run in the middle of the night when the rebels were sleeping," he said.

"We made our greatest escape because it was a difficult escape route, because the route that we will pass through has mines, it was also mined. We had a guide, Capt. (Nilo) Ramones, the company commander," he added.

The AFP chief said the 40 Filipino troops from position 68 went down from their post.

When asked if they were not aided by UN armored personnel carriers in their attempt, the AFP official said: "Gen. Singha ordered no military operations."

"We were fortunate that we were reinforced (and extricated by the Irish contingent) in Position 69. But unfortunately, they really wanted us to surrender and give our firearms in Position 68," Catapang said.

"So, it’s still to be investigated, why the order of Gen. Singha was, there will be no reinforcement. Because he was already there, we were monitoring him. And then all of a sudden, he changed his mind. And then, another negotiation came in. When he told us that if the next attack comes in, surrender your firearms, put up the white flag," the AFP chief said.

Catapang said the Filipino peacekeepers were trying to inform Singha of their escape plans but the latter told Col. Ezra Enrique (UNDOF chief-of-staff) that he does not want to hear the escape plans of the Filipinos
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Low ammo prompted Filipino peacekeepers to bolt Position 68

I"m wondering why are there Indian nationals defending this incompetent Indian general who's fit only for latrine duty. Gen. Singha should be sacked immmediately and replaced.

One has to wonder then why UN is still supporting the Indian General .
 
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Guys lets not fight here we should just follow the investagtion on the matter no point pointing who is how here
 
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GREAT ESCAPE | AFP chief mum after UNDOF chief's 'act of cowardice' jibe
By: Thom Andrade, InterAksyon.com and a report from India Today
September 4, 2014 7:26 PM

AFP public affairs chief Lt. Col. Ramon Zagala ripped into Indian Lt. Gen. Iqbal Singh Singha, saying it was the UNDOF chief who showed cowardice by "ordering the (Filipino) troops, endangering them unnecessarily by surrendering (their) firearms and raising the white flag instead of repositioning them. I think that's the act of cowardice."

He added, "General Singha, instead of bringing his men to safety, even allowed us to continue (the) seven-hour firefight when he could have repositioned us earlier together with (another Filipino-held outpost) Position 69, but he did not. He left us there, our ammunition (was) low and he told us if we are attacked again for us to lay down our arms and raise the white flag."


"Now which one is cowardice, his orders or (our) doing what is the best option to save Filipino soldiers' lives?" Zagala asked.

GREAT ESCAPE | AFP chief mum after UNDOF chief's 'act of cowardice' jibe
 
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Key point - "But UNDOF is working under Chapter VI of the UN Charter, which is primarily concerned with a supervisory role without any enforcing authority. Peacekeeping operations under Chapter VII give the enforcement authority and the ability to use force beyond self-defence,"
 
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Many here are giving their views on this matter as if it occurred under ordinary military circumstances (i.e. on a war zone in a single military)- this is absurd. One cannot overlook the fact that this was a UN Observer mission where the commanders and troops on the ground were of different nationalities and from different militaries (who knows what role this played in this matter). If this had been an incident in India in ,say, Kashmir wherein a unit of Indian solders were surrounded by terrorists the response would have been VERY different from this Lt General that much is certain and that is because the Lt General would have untold resources at his disposal- QRTs, Special Forces, Helicopters, UAVs, untold companies of troops in the area and surrounding areas, large amounts of federal and local law enforcement etc etc so no way would the order be given to lay down their arms.

However in this incident the Lt General was operating with one hand tied behind his back- limited resources, limited picture of what is going on, possibly no ability to rush in relief troops, a limited idea of what the troops he is commanding are capable of (in India all troops/officers deployed for CT operations have undergone an extensive and arduous COIN training regime lasting upwards of 8 months prior to be deployed and thus are more than capable of handling themselves and this is known by the command)additionally there is no limitations on the command from the civilians as is the case with UN missions- the SOPs do not hinder military operations in India or in other war zones as they do in UN missions. Sure, it could be said this order was not very honourable but if it looked like the options were order them to fight (to the death) or surrender then he chose to save these soldiers' lives with the hope they could be released unharmed at a later point.


Add to this we still don't know what part the UN HQ and the limitations of the UN Peacekeeper's mandate in this area were. To try and malign this Lt General just because some sympathise with the Fijian soldiers is out of order in my honest opinion. The more that comes out the more it seems the Lt General is being used as a focus for anger against the UN's peacekeeping limitations, it is pretty reasonable to assume that it is not the General at fault here but the way the UN operates in these missions- the commanders can only operate under the parameters they are given, to work outside of that would in itself be illegal as far as the UN were concerned.
 
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Catapang added that this action of the Philippine side did not contradict the UNDOF orders as troops contributing countries have leeway to countermand orders when it affects their national interest like continued security and safety of their military personnel.

UNDOF commander rejected resignation of Filipino chief-of-staff - AFP

We're allowed not to follow stupid Indian general orders.:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
Fiji troops followed Gen Singha's order to surrender...and now they are regretting it.

You are quoting the Philippines Army PR Officer. He is expected to defend the actions of his men and spin tales. That's his job.

General Singh rejected the COS resignation because it was above his pay grade. No point in trying to spin it into something else.

The Chain of command exist for a reason. You are required to follow every "stupid" general orders else you end up looking unprofessional, undisciplined and cowardly. Which is exactly what happened.

Engaging a vastly superior force(300-350 armed thugs) for 7 hours and killing three and then only withdrawing from their besieged position after their ammo ran low is "cowardice"?

Low ammo prompted Filipino peacekeepers to bolt Position 68
By: Priam F. Nepomuceno, Philippine News Agency
September 3, 2014 3:14 AM

MANILA, Philippines -- Low ammunition supplies prompted the 40 Filipino peacekeepers from Position 68 to make a daring night-time escape across a minefield early Sunday morning (Syrian time).

It was either that or face the possibility of being massacred by the Al-Qaeda-affiliated Syrian rebels whom the Filipinos traded shots with for more than seven hours, said Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) chief-of-staff Gen. Gregorio Pio Catapang on Tuesday, divulging the conversation he had with the Filipino peacekeepers via video conference who narrated to him the details of what happened.

"As a backgrounder, our peacekeepers in Position 68 and 69 were surrounded by the rebels. And then they (Syrian rebels) brought two Fijian officers; they wanted to show that the 44 Fijians were hostaged. They were negotiating with us to lay down our firearms," he disclosed.

This took place during the early part of the stand-off Thursday morning (Syrian time).

However, the Filipinos peacekeepers stood their ground while looking for a means to solve the deadlock between the two forces.

"We told them, you want the firearms, you ask the Fijians to give another 44 firearms. So our firearms is not for giving. It’s a great dishonor for us if we give up our firearms," the AFP chief quoted the Filipino peacekeepers.

During the negotiation, the Syrian rebels became impatient and attacked the Filipino soldiers Saturday morning (Syrian time).

"And they (Syrian rebels) attacked us for seven hours. So what shall we do? And when they were already tired attacking us, they again asked for a negotiation of the ceasefire," the Filipino peacekeepers told the AFP chief.

While talks were ongoing, Catapang said the Philippine peacekeepers were monitoring the enemy who were observed to be regrouping and amassing.

At this point, an order from United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) commander Lt. Gen. Igbal Singh Singha came through telling Filipino troops that "once you are again attacked, the best thing to do, the order is, surrender your firearms (and) put up the white flag."

The order, Catapang said, was not negotiable.

He added that the AFP contingent to Golan Heights already had an idea the Syrian rebels will attack the following morning.

"So we had to make the greatest escape for the soldiers," he said.

"So, from that time on, we assessed, they were coming in with reinforcements, then we think that the following day (Sunday), we will be attacked again. And that will be the end of it. We will be massacred, as the good Secretary Voltaire Gazmin stated. Because we didn’t want the people to know, we had a news blackout, they (Filipino troops) were low of ammunition," he revealed.

By this time, the ammunition of the Filipino peacekeepers were already depleted after the seven-hour long firefight with Syrian rebels Saturday.

"So we planned for the greatest escape. And hopefully, with God’s grace, the area was … it was not foggy, and we were able to run in the middle of the night when the rebels were sleeping," he said.

"We made our greatest escape because it was a difficult escape route, because the route that we will pass through has mines, it was also mined. We had a guide, Capt. (Nilo) Ramones, the company commander," he added.

The AFP chief said the 40 Filipino troops from position 68 went down from their post.

When asked if they were not aided by UN armored personnel carriers in their attempt, the AFP official said: "Gen. Singha ordered no military operations."

"We were fortunate that we were reinforced (and extricated by the Irish contingent) in Position 69. But unfortunately, they really wanted us to surrender and give our firearms in Position 68," Catapang said.

"So, it’s still to be investigated, why the order of Gen. Singha was, there will be no reinforcement. Because he was already there, we were monitoring him. And then all of a sudden, he changed his mind. And then, another negotiation came in. When he told us that if the next attack comes in, surrender your firearms, put up the white flag," the AFP chief said.

Catapang said the Filipino peacekeepers were trying to inform Singha of their escape plans but the latter told Col. Ezra Enrique (UNDOF chief-of-staff) that he does not want to hear the escape plans of the Filipinos
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Low ammo prompted Filipino peacekeepers to bolt Position 68

I"m wondering why are there Indian nationals defending this incompetent Indian general who's fit only for latrine duty. Gen. Singha should be sacked immmediately and replaced.

It was because they post had low ammo, they were asked to raise a white flag while the leadership Negotiated a surrender with the rebel chiefs.

This was not a War, this was a UN Peacekeeping mission who's primary objective was to SAVE LIVES, if possible ALL LIVES. General Singha was responsible for the lives of both the Fijian and Filipo soldiers and he chose the path which presented teh least risk to the men under his command.

The filipo soldiers showed courage by fighting back but showed cowardice by not following a direct order and endangering the lives of Fijian soldiers. They acted dishonorably by not trusting the leadership and Experience of their General and commanding officer. Especially since the leadership was buys Negotiating with the Rebels for their Negotiated withdrawal and Release of Fijian soldiers.

Real courage would have been if they had risked their lives to save the lives of Fijian fellow soldiers. Which is what soldiers are expected to do, endanger their own lives to save the lives of others.

When the Fiipo soldiers acted to save their own lives and endanger the lives of the Filipo soldiers and the Irish soldiers who was dispatched to save them, they displayed cowardice. Their action endangered the lives of all concerned, the Filipo, the Irish and the Fijian.

Everyone fights to save their own lives, real soldiers are expected to save others lives.

Writing this in bold red does not change this fact. The only one supporting incompetence is you by spinning an act of cowardice into heroism. The world sees otherwise.

Good luck Fiji with ever getting an UN posting again.

Fijian solders showed exemplary courage and discipline by following orders and surrendering as per the Negotiations. They demonstrated courage by trusting their leadership and by showing courage to follow orders.

Same cannot be said true for the Filipo soldiers. In fact after his demonstration by the Filipo soldier which endangered the lives of other UN soldiers wich UN soldier would risk their lives to save a Filipo soldier in danger ? which commander would want to command a Filiopo platoon ? They have brought shame to their entire country.
 
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This was not a War, this was a UN Peacekeeping mission who's primary objective was to SAVE LIVES, if possible ALL LIVES. General Singha was responsible for the lives of both the Fijian and Filipo soldiers and he chose the path which presented teh least risk to the men under his command.

The filipo soldiers showed courage by fighting back but showed cowardice by not following a direct order and endangering the lives of Fijian soldiers. They acted dishonorably by not trusting the leadership and Experience of their General and commanding officer. Especially since the leadership was buys Negotiating with the Rebels for their Negotiated withdrawal and Release of Fijian soldiers.

Real courage would have been if they had risked their lives to save the lives of Fijian fellow soldiers. Which is what soldiers are expected to do, endanger their own lives to save the lives of others.

When the Fiipo soldiers acted to save their own lives and endanger the lives of the Filipo soldiers and the Irish soldiers who was dispatched to save them, they displayed cowardice. Their action endangered the lives of all concerned, the Filipo, the Irish and the Fijian.

Everyone fights to save their own lives, real soldiers are expected to save others lives.

Writing this in bold red does not change this fact. The only one supporting incompetence is you by spinning an act of cowardice into heroism. The world sees otherwise.


Fijian solders showed exemplary courage and discipline by following orders and surrendering as per the Negotiations.
They demonstrated courage by trusting their leadership and by showing courage to follow orders.

Fijian demonstrated courage by following order to surrender. While Filipino showing cowardice because they don't want follow order to surrendered, so they endangered Fijian lives, who are only now endangered because of the surrender order they received....... Circular logic?
 
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Fijian demonstrated courage by following order to surrender. While Filipino showing cowardice because they don't want follow order to surrendered, so they endangered Fijian lives, who are only now endangered because of the surrender order they received....... Circular logic?

There is a simple rule in battlefield that has been true for the last 3000 years.

Following order saves lives. Disobeying orders takes lives.

There is nothing circular about it if you understand how ANY the Army operates. If you don't then everything appearers circular.
 
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