Phalcon Meets Its Nemesis

[Donatello]

Good point. Pakistani cruise missiles are subsonic, whereas even 2nd gen. jet fighters are capable of supersonic speeds. Once the AWACS detect the cruise missiles, can the fighters like MiG21 give chase to the cruise missile and shoot it down?
One more thing. We keep hearing about Babur crusie missile being able to fly under the detection horizon of land based RADARs. But is is really undetectable? The Indo-pak border is heavily populated region (except for few places in Rajastan and Gujarath) . Now a missile cruise missile, though flying at subsonic speeds, flying at extremely low altitude will make a lot of noise which can be heard by people on ground. If the population is educated to detected these missiles and report to the authorities in real time, is it not possible to detect the missiles flight path and vector in a interceptor and shoot down the missile? It will take babur 30-45 minutes to travel its full flight path, which is plenty of time to intercept it.

Umm, Babur sure is subsonic, but then that gives it ease to maneuver. You are right that any modern AWACs can track it, for the fact that land based radars have a bigger blind spot as you go towards ground, AWACs are pretty much opposite, looking down and perpendicular to the horizon means they can not only track bigger Ballistic missiles but also Cruise missiles.

The problem is that cruise missiles like Babur are cheap unmanned aircraft and there may be more than one being launched at one time. A mig 21 may not be able to intercept it for the fact that it first needs to the track the missile, lock on and then destroy it. The toal surface area of Babur is way less than a traditional aircraft which the MIG 21/29 can track on, meaning the Babur might be having a RCA close to that of a Stealth aircraft, not to mention the straight edges which further reduce its cross section. It's like who will have a smaller RCA? JF-17 or SU 30? Radar tracking is highly dependent on the RCA of the object which in case of any cruise missile is very small.

Also, Pakistan/India border is not populated, like right next to border, where the TEL can go and launch the missile. No one is saying that Babur would be Launched from one corner of Lahore and has to navigate through it. It doesn't work like that. There is a reason why you have mobile launchers.

Can Babur be shot down? Yes
Can Babur be shot down in time before it reaches its target? well, very difficult to say.

 

[SBD-3]

I read that - but you still missed my point - There is a probability of success? What about that?

Its the same question that is pitted against a ballistic missile interceptor. It the probability of a successful interception not just a test!

taking that into account.......No navy is so dumb that it will launch one-one.....keep in mind that while flying at supersonic speed of brahmos....its not manuverable like a subsonic missile....so there is a greater chance of interception as the difference b/w the actual and projected trajectory wont be great.....making it easy for interceptor to adjust........thats why they say it.....speed thrills....but it kills

 

[gowthamraj]

and again............................................has it been tested?

it is already service in india by 2006

 

[gowthamraj]

double post - deleted

 

[Mahakaya]

taking that into account.......No navy is so dumb that it will launch one-one.....keep in mind that while flying at supersonic speed of brahmos....its not manuverable like a subsonic missile....so there is a greater chance of interception as the difference b/w the actual and projected trajectory wont be great.....making it easy for interceptor to adjust........thats why they say it.....speed thrills....but it kills

I understand its tough but has already been taken into account :

Here you go:

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Naval BrahMos Fired With Supersonic Manoeuver, Bang On Target

Just got off the phone with BrahMos CEO Dr A Sivathanu Pillai, delighted with the 11.30AM test of the Naval BrahMos supersonic cruise missile in a vertical launch from the Indian Navy destroyer INS Ranvir. Dr Pillai reveals the test was specifically aimed at testing the missile's accuracy when its flight path was infused with "diversionary manoueuvers" to mask the general direction of the launcher warship. The missile, vertically launched from a Vertical Launcher built for the BrahMos, was rolled in all directions successfully before before it smashed into the hull of INS Meen a decommissioned target vessel. Photos of actual launch will be posted shortly. Stay tuned.

Here is the launch video:

and if the Brahmos is not good enough for you to consider as maneuverable, we also have the back up in Nirbhay.

 

[karan.1970]

Phalcons cannot easily track the Babur, it can fly too close to the ground in terrain hugging mode.

Umm, Babur sure is subsonic, but then that gives it ease to maneuver. You are right that any modern AWACs can track it, for the fact that land based radars have a bigger blind spot as you go towards ground, AWACs are pretty much opposite, looking down and perpendicular to the horizon means they can not only track bigger Ballistic missiles but also Cruise missiles.

The problem is that cruise missiles like Babur are cheap unmanned aircraft and there may be more than one being launched at one time. A mig 21 may not be able to intercept it for the fact that it first needs to the track the missile, lock on and then destroy it. The toal surface area of Babur is way less than a traditional aircraft which the MIG 21/29 can track on, meaning the Babur might be having a RCA close to that of a Stealth aircraft, not to mention the straight edges which further reduce its cross section. It's like who will have a smaller RCA? JF-17 or SU 30? Radar tracking is highly dependent on the RCA of the object which in case of any cruise missile is very small.

Also, Pakistan/India border is not populated, like right next to border, where the TEL can go and launch the missile. No one is saying that Babur would be Launched from one corner of Lahore and has to navigate through it. It doesn't work like that. There is a reason why you have mobile launchers.

Can Babur be shot down? Yes
Can Babur be shot down in time before it reaches its target? well, very difficult to say.

Thats where an AWACS scores over a ground based radar as it is looking down. You are right that Babur's RCS is very low, but still within the detectable range of Phalcon. Also its a little unrealistic to assume that Pakistan will know the exact time and location of a Phalcon pit stop and will be able to fire a babur, which will travel over 400 km undetected and and unchallenged and will destroy the exact place where the Phalcon is getting refueled..Specially since Babur is subsonic and can be engaged with CIWS and SAM batteries over and above the on CAP fighter planes...

 

[bumbgola]

a barrage of missile

If you spend your missiles this way then how will you fight the rest of the war?

 

[saurabh]

Umm, Babur sure is subsonic, but then that gives it ease to maneuver. You are right that any modern AWACs can track it, for the fact that land based radars have a bigger blind spot as you go towards ground, AWACs are pretty much opposite, looking down and perpendicular to the horizon means they can not only track bigger Ballistic missiles but also Cruise missiles.

The problem is that cruise missiles like Babur are cheap unmanned aircraft and there may be more than one being launched at one time. A mig 21 may not be able to intercept it for the fact that it first needs to the track the missile, lock on and then destroy it. The toal surface area of Babur is way less than a traditional aircraft which the MIG 21/29 can track on, meaning the Babur might be having a RCA close to that of a Stealth aircraft, not to mention the straight edges which further reduce its cross section. It's like who will have a smaller RCA? JF-17 or SU 30? Radar tracking is highly dependent on the RCA of the object which in case of any cruise missile is very small.

If an AWACS can track the missile, interceptor aircraft need not use its own radar, it can rely on the AWACS.

 

[subanday]

shehbazi2001........ sincerely, ur story has got tears in my eyes, as if our comrades hav come to life again in flesh. Really , awesome work..... jiyo jawana

 

[Join]

Disclaimer: Please note that this is a hypothetical scenario. The names of Balwant singh , Jacob , Dushyant and Haidar, Pilot 1,2,3,4,5... have been chosen for their historical relevance only. All other names and characters have been chosen randomly. Any coincidence would only be by chance.

IAF operation Storm hawk​

Jacob: Flight control, wing commander jacob reporting from sector 102,Connect me to Commanding Officer,We are in need of Garud forces to neutralize the enemy Installations,We see a big offensive Build up in the Areas across the LOC.,Caught there fighters in Range aswell...Over


Haidar: Heard Of the offensive build up, Forces are being airdropped to seal off enemy weapons systems,and the suppression of enemy air defense systems ,Give them coverfire through air if an engagement happens...

An interception call
​

Dushyant: there was a surprise attack from the pakistani side,Sabotaged the The runways and Destroyed the work houses in adampur, But Our Mig 29's and mirage 2000 are intercepting it, have so far engaged 12 F-16, shot down 10 and 2 flew away... No casualities on our side, but they Had a bombing run, Civilian casualties reported and Army has cordoned the area.

Jacob:Air support from Squadron 20 has been asked,the Sukhoi 30 MKI are on there way....Dont give them a chance, There chance is over, killing over hundreds of civilians, they deserve no mercy..

Dusyant: yes sir, the Next wave of there fighters are on there way, Should we let Our Phalcon monitor?

Jacob: No not now,the forces have been sent to netralise the enemy air defense systems, So we will let the Phalcons inn as soon as we get the message, Make use of the MKI's till the phalcons reach.

Dushyant: Yes sir, the MKI's are closing in, under my Air traffic control Line,Mirage 2000 have landed here, the controls have been passed on to MKI, the 2000 will be on full sortie.Over

Pilot 1: we see F-16's, we see F-16's... Engaging ,time to close in on enemy by our BVRM missiles, hahah

Navigator1:Heading to lock, make it steady.... thats it , engage.

Pilot 1: Get on to the side, An arrow formation, We are closing in.

Pilot 2:Novator is in the arsenal, ready to sabotage the AWAC Saab-2000 , Engaging...

pilot 3: Breaking right, Breaking right... breaking right and engaging. We see enemy Approaching us....

pilot 1:there worst nightmare is Approaching them.

Pilot 4:Hahaha, Lock on...

Haidar: the Garuds have successfully completed the task given to them, joining the Phalcon.

Pilot 1: Phalcon is not needed for engaging a bunch of small kids who learn to Take of by themselves and learn to get landed by the IAF


Pilot5:Breaking straight, OFAB-100-120 dropped....

Pilot1: formation 104, Straight interception, Lock on , 16 fighter aircrafts caught on radars, wait for closing, Who says gone are the days of Dog fights?

Pilot2:breaking left breaking left, Making a close interception, An enemy missile is heading, flare flare, chaff chaff... Yeeeeehaw what an escape, Cannot wait anymore (releases the R-77), Safe interception RIP the brave.haha

Pilot 1: The F-16 have turned around, lets not go deep, Back off.... We dont need civilian casualities.... hope they dont return with some dummies again.... Well Destroy all the enemy installations on the way, Give them a complete shave....

Pilot 1: Flight controll flight controll, the enemy retreated, We have destroyed the enemy powerhouses and vital installations.. returning home safe and sound...


Dushyant: Blessed are we to have warriors like You...return to the base.

And the Saga continues......

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Disclaimer: Please note that this is a hypothetical scenario. The names of Balwant singh , Jacob , Dushyant and Haidar, Pilot 1,2,3,4,5... have been chosen for their historical relevance only. All other names and characters have been chosen randomly. Any coincidence would only be by chance.

IAF operation Storm hawk​

Jacob: Flight control, wing commander jacob reporting from sector 102,Connect me to Commanding Officer,We are in need of Garud forces to neutralize the enemy Installations,We see a big offensive Build up in the Areas across the LOC.,Caught there fighters in Range aswell...Over


Haidar: Heard Of the offensive build up, Forces are being airdropped to seal off enemy weapons systems,and the suppression of enemy air defense systems ,Give them coverfire through air if an engagement happens...

An interception call
​

Dushyant: there was a surprise attack from the pakistani side,Sabotaged the The runways and Destroyed the work houses in adampur, But Our Mig 29's and mirage 2000 are intercepting it, have so far engaged 12 F-16, shot down 10 and 2 flew away... No casualities on our side, but they Had a bombing run, Civilian casualties reported and Army has cordoned the area.

Jacob:Air support from Squadron 20 has been asked,the Sukhoi 30 MKI are on there way....Dont give them a chance, There chance is over, killing over hundreds of civilians, they deserve no mercy..

Dusyant: yes sir, the Next wave of there fighters are on there way, Should we let Our Phalcon monitor?

Jacob: No not now,the forces have been sent to netralise the enemy air defense systems, So we will let the Phalcons inn as soon as we get the message, Make use of the MKI's till the phalcons reach.

Dushyant: Yes sir, the MKI's are closing in, under my Air traffic control Line,Mirage 2000 have landed here, the controls have been passed on to MKI, the 2000 will be on full sortie.Over

Pilot 1: we see F-16's, we see F-16's... Engaging ,time to close in on enemy by our BVRM missiles, hahah

Navigator1:Heading to lock, make it steady.... thats it , engage.

Pilot 1: Get on to the side, An arrow formation, We are closing in.

Pilot 2:Novator is in the arsenal, ready to sabotage the AWAC Saab-2000 , Engaging...

pilot 3: Breaking right, Breaking right... breaking right and engaging. We see enemy Approaching us....

pilot 1:there worst nightmare is Approaching them.

Pilot 4:Hahaha, Lock on...

Haidar: the Garuds have successfully completed the task given to them, joining the Phalcon.

Pilot 1: Phalcon is not needed for engaging a bunch of small kids who learn to Take of by themselves and learn to get landed by the IAF


Pilot5:Breaking straight, OFAB-100-120 dropped....

Pilot1: formation 104, Straight interception, Lock on , 16 fighter aircrafts caught on radars, wait for closing, Who says gone are the days of Dog fights?

Pilot2:breaking left breaking left, Making a close interception, An enemy missile is heading, flare flare, chaff chaff... Yeeeeehaw what an escape, Cannot wait anymore (releases the R-77), Safe interception RIP the brave.haha

Pilot 1: The F-16 have turned around, lets not go deep, Back off.... We dont need civilian casualities.... hope they dont return with some dummies again.... Well Destroy all the enemy installations on the way, Give them a complete shave....

Pilot 1: Flight controll flight controll, the enemy retreated, We have destroyed the enemy powerhouses and vital installations.. returning home safe and sound...


Dushyant: Blessed are we to have warriors like You...return to the base.

And the Saga continues......

You made my day

Haven't found any better thing to laugh at..

saga game continues....


hahaha lock on

 

[Join]

You made my day

Haven't found any better thing to laugh at..

saga game continues....


lock on hahaha

So did this thread, this isnt as stupid as the first post.... keep laughing...

 

[S.U.R.B.]

So did this thread, this isnt as stupid as the first post.... keep laughing...

Agreed , but post number 70 is funniest of all

Keep up the good work

Spread some more smiles

 

[Join]

Agreed , but post number 70 is funniest of all

Keep up the good work

Spread some more smiles

Thank you for your compliment, Iam sorry that I couldnt reach the level attained by the thread starter... He sure wrote funnier...

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Thank you for your compliment, Iam sorry that I couldnt reach the level attained by the thread starter... He sure wrote funnier...

NAHHH!! you sure humble, Beaten him by miles....



Will wait for more stuff like this one

Opening post depicted some pilots having fun

But here i mean whole airforce..........