People from India, China out-educating Americans in maths and technology: Barack Obama

[Jade]

Those are American college entrance exams. It captures only a small percentage of the educated population who are applying for university or grad school.
PISA ranking reflects nationwide education standard, not just the top students. It measures the general standard of student ability in basic skills like reading and maths.

Unlike China where your Government did a commendable job in imparting basic education, India could not impart basic education at the same level. In fact, there is a large swath of land where students don't even have schools to study. Most of the news that you hear around the world of India's achievement - even the news posted by OP - are due people from cities who go for private education. Hence, comparing an American student, who studies in a formal education environment, to an Indian student in a remote village, who never went to school, doesn't make sense.

 

[Fattyacids]

I agree on most part. But you are wrong to say PISA testing is skewed. Each country send their students for testing based on curriculum spelled out clearly by PISA. No country is going to send student who did NOT meet the requirement or have no formal education.

 

[INDIC]

Tamil Nadu is among the best states in India for education. That's why your government choose it. You're free to send any students from any states, but India pulled out from the PISA testing

Secondary school education is not Phd research. It does NOT require much facilities. Just a classroom with table and chairs, black board and chalks, textbooks and teachers.

Still it don't make sense of comparing a student from a village where main challenge is to provide basic education to kids through free education and free meals with the students from the cities like Shanghai.

 

[Jade]

I agree on most part. But you are wrong to say PISA testing is skewed. Each country send their students for testing based on curriculum spelled out clearly by PISA. No country is going to send student who did NOT meet the requirement or have no formal education.

I haven't heard of PISA, until Chinese started using it here. I am sure many of the my relatives who are in India have heard it neither.

 

[Fattyacids]

Still it don't make sense of comparing a student from a village where main challenge is to provide basic education to kids through free education and free meals with the students from the cities like Shanghai.

Do you have comprehension problem? Go back and read my post. If you still don't get it, go apply for PISA testing. I'm not going to repeat myself for the 3rd time.

 

[Jade]

Still it don't make sense of comparing a student from a village where main challenge is to provide basic education to kids through free education and free meals with the students from the cities like Shanghai.

Almost, 50% of students who are 'enrolled' in government schools in rural areas never go to schools except perhaps to have free meal. And even majority of teachers never come to schools perhaps occasionally when somebody from headquarters visit the school.

 

[INDIC]

Do you have comprehension problem? Go back and read my post. If you still don't get it, go apply for PISA testing. I'm not going to repeat myself for the 3rd time.

Perhaps you failed to comprehend my point. So you too believe kids of Shanghai has same level compared to rural kids of Tamil Nadu mainly coming from poor families studying in government funded schools with free meal.

 

[INDIC]

Almost, 50% of students who are 'enrolled' in government schools in rural areas never go to schools except perhaps to have free meal. And even majority of teachers never come to schools perhaps occasionally when somebody from headquarters visit the school.

The skyrocketing high IQs of Chinese failed them to understand that a rural kid of poor background and facilities don't have a same level of the kids studying in cities.

 

[INDIC]

Almost, 50% of students who are 'enrolled' in government schools in rural areas never go to schools except perhaps to have free meal. And even majority of teachers never come to schools perhaps occasionally when somebody from headquarters visit the school.

I have talked to some rural people, many of them see schooling as just a formality instead of a competition to score better. Soon they get their matriculation degree, they indulged into the businesses or work to earn which don't need much of formal education.

 

[Fattyacids]

The skyrocketing high IQs of Chinese failed them to understand that a rural kid of poor background and facilities don't have a same level of the kids studying in cities.

Perhaps you failed to comprehend my point. So you too believe kids of Shanghai has same level compared to rural kids of Tamil Nadu mainly coming from poor families studying in government funded schools with free meal.

Almost, 50% of students who are 'enrolled' in government schools in rural areas never go to schools except perhaps to have free meal. And even majority of teachers never come to schools perhaps occasionally when somebody from headquarters visit the school.

"Tamil Nadu is one of the most literate states in India. The state's literacy rate is 80.33% in 2011,which is above the national average. A survey conducted by the Industry body Assocham ranks Tamil Nadu top among Indian states with about 100% Gross Enrollment Ratio (GER) in primary and upper primary education.

If your government did think Tamil Nadu was good enough to represent India, they can choose a different state. Every country is free to send student from any states or cities. But India chose to pull out of PISA completely.

 

[Jade]

"Tamil Nadu is one of the most literate states in India. The state's literacy rate is 80.33% in 2011,which is above the national average. A survey conducted by the Industry body Assocham ranks Tamil Nadu top among Indian states with about 100% Gross Enrollment Ratio (GER) in primary and upper primary education.

If your government did think Tamil Nadu was good enough to represent India, they can choose a different state. Every country is free to send student from any states or cities. But India chose to pull out of PISA completely.

First, I doubt Government of India is that proactive in sending students to international competitions and second, I don't see any correlation between literacy rate and performance on some test.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Perhaps you failed to comprehend my point. So you too believe kids of Shanghai has same level compared to rural kids of Tamil Nadu mainly coming from poor families studying in government funded schools with free meal.

The Chinese performance in rural cities performed admirably, even though their scores were not published.
Although poor, the students studied hard and were disciplined. As Fattyacid pointed out - chalk, a blackboard and a dedicated teacher goes a long way.
Instead of taking an introspective look into the problems with the Indian education system, Indians make excuses and then pull out of the next PISA - like an ostrich with its head in the sand.



In 2010, when the only test that attempts to contrast and compare the world’s education levels, PISA (Program for International Student Assessment), released the results from 15-year-olds in Shanghai for the first time, the reaction was incredulous.“Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators” read the New York Times’ headline, and educators had good reason to be stunned. Shanghai schoolchildren were top of the world in Reading, Maths and Science, beating previous contenders such as Finland and South Korea.

One commenter, who had served in President Ronald Reagan’s Department of Education, told the Times that this was likely only the beginning.

“I’ve seen how relentless the Chinese are at accomplishing goals, and if they can do this in Shanghai in 2009, they can do it in 10 cities in 2019, and in 50 cities by 2029,” Chester E. Finn Jr said.

Now, it’s beginning to look like Finn was undervaluing China when he made that statement, and fears that Shanghai was a freak results are simply wrong.

Speaking to the BBC this week, Andreas Schleicher of the OECD (the body behind the PISA tests) said that even unpublished results from poor rural areas were “remarkable”.

“Shanghai is an exceptional case – and the results there are close to what I expected,” Andreas Schleicher said. “But what surprised me more were the results from poor provinces that came out really well. The levels of resilience are just incredible.”

The next round of PISA tests are due to be released late next year

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/china-education-pisa-schoolchildren-2012-5

 

[INDIC]

"Tamil Nadu is one of the most literate states in India. The state's literacy rate is 80.33% in 2011,which is above the national average. A survey conducted by the Industry body Assocham ranks Tamil Nadu top among Indian states with about 100% Gross Enrollment Ratio (GER) in primary and upper primary education.

If your government did think Tamil Nadu was good enough to represent India, they can choose a different state. Every country is free to send student from any states or cities. But India chose to pull out of PISA completely.

we know the level of rural education in India by PISA scores but you are making idiotic comparison of rural student of India with that of Urban students of China.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

First, I doubt Government of India is that proactive in sending students to international competitions and second, I don't see any correlation between literacy rate and performance on some test.

There is a definite correlation, especially considering that PISA is a set of tests including literacy, science and mathematics. Unfortunately the star pupils of Tamil Nadu performed terribly even in the literacy department so I cant even imagine how the rest of India would have performed.
Obama really hasn't done his homework by lumping China and India together. Next he will say that China and India are going to erode American dominance in the Olympics.

 

[Fattyacids]

First, I doubt Government of India is that proactive in sending students to international competitions and second, I don't see any correlation between literacy rate and performance on some test.

As you claimed that you have never heard of PISA testing, which is the international benchmarking of primary and secondary education, how would you know anything about your govt sending kids for PISA test?

Without literacy, where does the reading and problem solving skills come from???????? High literacy correlates positively to the test performance. Test performance can be affected by others factors, but that's a different point altogether.
PISA is not an examination, students were simply asked to complete the questions.