People Forget China’s conflict with Japan Cost at Least Ten Million Lives

[Pakhtoon yum]

Japan basically got saved by the Cold War and the Anti Communist alliance the US helped pushed for at that time so a lot the war crimes went unpunished cause of post WW2 geo-political realities

Had the US not help rebuild Japan it would be under the Soviet boot, or under the Japanese Communist Party

Have you read the letters to the US government by the Japanese ambassador to the states? It pretty much defined their attitude. Basically they said "everyone else is killing everyone so why cant we kill a few Chinese" I simplify it obviously but that's what's said if you decode the wording.

And your right they decided to become a puppet for the states after the war and thats what's got them through. That turned into being a slave and now that's just what they are. A slave of the US.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Have you read the letters to the US government by the Japanese ambassador to the states? It pretty much defined their attitude. Basically they said "everyone else is killing everyone so why cant we kill a few Chinese" I simplify it obviously but that's what's said if you decode the wording.

And your right they decided to become a puppet for the states after the war and thats what's got them through. That turned into being a slave and now that's just what they are. A slave of the US.

General Mc Arthur once suggested to basically nuke Mainland China into oblivion in order for the US to win the Korean War it was pretty extreme so he was tossed out during the war but you could really tell the animosity towards Red China, interesting note tho Mao Zedong was originally in favor in continuing ties with the US to counter the Soviet Union but Truman gave a cold shoulder but a decade later the Sino Soviet split happen it got policy makers in DC thinking of using Peking against Moscow wasnt until 1972 when Nixon trip to China with help from Pakistan leading to full normalization of ties in 1979

And your right they decided to become a puppet for the states after the war and thats what's got them through. That turned into being a slave and now that's just what they are. A slave of the US.[/QUOTE]

I mean they had no choice it was stagnant Soviet puppet state or be like the DPRK or being a prosperous state but under US geo-political and defense structures hey at least unlike the Germans the Japanese dont have the self hate and guilt that build up to the core these days

 

[nahtanbob]

You got occupation zones in Germany and in Japan and still have military bases there. Those countries are more or less under your control. Your losses from both Germany and Japan are incomparable with Chinese ones. Russian losses from Japan are even lesser than yours but we got some compensation. China is considered one of winners in WW2 - but I can not understand why they did not got some lands from Japan, at least some most remote islands.

Soviet losses to Germany and Chinese losses to Japan were driven by incompetence. Do not expect me to feel much sympathy

we made a bargain with Germany and Japan. do not militarise. we will protect you

You are hung up on territory for some reason @vostok

 

[DejanSRB]

Soviet losses to Germany and Chinese losses to Japan were driven by incompetence. Do not expect me to feel much sympathy

we made a bargain with Germany and Japan. do not militarise. we will protect you

You are hung up on territory for some reason @vostok

My friend, do you think that it is hypocrisy when Americans downplays Russian contribution in WW2 (that majority of US historians consider most important on European theater), while majority of Americans made a MYTH about Battle of the Alamo which was barely bigger then brawl in the bar, and totally irrelevant to the world history?

Dont want to brag about it, just asking.

 

[nahtanbob]

My friend, do you think that it is hypocrisy when Americans downplays Russian contribution in WW2 (that majority of US historians consider most important on European theater), while majority of Americans made a MYTH about Battle of the Alamo which was barely bigger then brawl in the bar, and totally irrelevant to the world history?

Dont want to brag about it, just asking.

At a general level I respect Soviet sacrifices and bravery during the war. So do a lot of Americans.

But Stalin made it worse by purging competent officers/generals before World War 2. He alienated a lot of nationalities - Baltics, Ukranians with his misguided policies. That led to a lot of early losses to the Nazis. Put the blame where it belongs. I do not feel sorry for this. you get what you deserve.

Do not lose track of the fact that Stalin regime was extremely brutal by the standards of the communist world. A lot of people put Hitler and Stalin on the same pedestal for mass murderers.

@DejanSRB

 

[Rusty]

One needs to look into both. Without the past, there is no future.

100% agree.
But at the same time, don't let your past destroy your future.

India is a prime example of this.
They are so fixated on "vadic" nonsense they are actually letting these nutters into their mainstream society, including scientific forums.


My personal theory (based on history) is that China has always been the hegemonic power in East Asia. They have always been at the top and look down on the "barbarians"

"The Japanese endonym Wa 倭 "Japan" derives from the Chinese exonym Wō 倭 "Japan, Japanese", a graphic pejorative Chinese character that had some offensive connotation, possibly "submissive, docile, obedient", "bowing; bent over", or "short person; dwarf"."

fast forward to the 19th century and China and Japan both tried to modernize, China failed and Japan succeeded.
Now the "dwarf barbarians" are actually able to beat china and be a dominant Asian power.


We all know the ego of Asian people, all Asian people from Turkey to Japan, so China is angry at Japan still not because of war or anything (Cultural revolution and great leap forward killed way way more Chinese then the Japanese ever could) but because of "face loss." Dwarf barbarians were able to defeat the mighty China.

Seems you think only Chinese have the sense of justice. I do not say that China have to attack Japan and grab some lands. I say it is unfair that Japan did not compensate China its huge losses in the past after the war.

Justice is relative and based on who has the power.
No power = no justice.
Just ask Palestinians.

 

[vostok]

Soviet losses to Germany and Chinese losses to Japan were driven by incompetence. Do not expect me to feel much sympathy

we made a bargain with Germany and Japan. do not militarise. we will protect you

You are hung up on territory for some reason @vostok

I mean losses of civilians, not military. In fact losses of Germany and all the allies on the Eastern front was about 8 mln, Soviet losses - 10 mln, but it is military losses, its ok. Military losses is not the reason why we hate Nazis. 15 mln slaughtered civilians - that is the reason. The same thing with China and Japan. Japan's guilt is in mass genocide of civilians, not in the war itself. Genocide - that is what should be compensated.
I suggest Japan to kneel down and apologize to the Chinese, or one day China will come and ask for forgiveness.

Justice is relative and based on who has the power.
No power = no justice.
Just ask Palestinians.

Ok, so you recognize that it is unfair.

 

[Nein]

China was in such a bad state at those times even they did not surrender like the French LOL

 

[Rusty]

I mean losses of civilians, not military. In fact losses of Germany and all the allies on the Eastern front was about 8 mln, Soviet losses - 10 mln, but it is military losses, its ok. Military losses is not the reason why we hate Nazis. 15 mln slaughtered civilians - that is the reason. The same thing with China and Japan. Japan's guilt is in mass genocide of civilians, not in the war itself. Genocide - that is what should be compensated.
I suggest Japan to kneel down and apologize to the Chinese, or one day China will come and ask for forgiveness.


Ok, so you recognize that it is unfair.

I donno man, I think there have been a lot more injustices then China not getting land it never won and had no claims to.

I mean the guy who caused 45 MILLION deaths in the cultural revolution and great leap forward is now on the money of the country.
surely you can't call that justice.

 

[vostok]

I donno man, I think there have been a lot more injustices then China not getting land it never won and had no claims to.

I mean the guy who caused 45 MILLION deaths in the cultural revolution and great leap forward is now on the money of the country.
surely you can't call that justice.

Ok. So you you are agree that no compensation for China for genocide is unfair. But you think China should let it on and just live. Believe me, if Japan will not recognize how hard it hurt Chinese with all those war crimes and will not apologize on the kneels - the story will not end.

 

[nahtanbob]

I mean losses of civilians, not military. In fact losses of Germany and all the allies on the Eastern front was about 8 mln, Soviet losses - 10 mln, but it is military losses, its ok. Military losses is not the reason why we hate Nazis. 15 mln slaughtered civilians - that is the reason. The same thing with China and Japan. Japan's guilt is in mass genocide of civilians, not in the war itself. Genocide - that is what should be compensated.
I suggest Japan to kneel down and apologize to the Chinese, or one day China will come and ask for forgiveness.

if Soviet military was tad more competent maybe those civilians would be alive. something to think about

 

[Rusty]

Ok. So you you are agree that no compensation for China for genocide is unfair. But you think China should let it on and just live. Believe me, if Japan will not recognize how hard it hurt Chinese with all those war crimes and will not apologize on the kneels - the story will not end.

putting words in other people's mouths is indicative of a weak argument.
Look man, I don't want to continue this nonsense anymore.
End of the day, China got what she got and there is not much she can do to change history outside of invading Japan and forcing them.

 

[vostok]

if Soviet military was tad more competent maybe those civilians would be alive. something to think about

Just like doctor Goebbels told to Nazi soldiers.

 

[Nein]

if Soviet military was tad more competent maybe those civilians would be alive. something to think about

Look up on Lebensraum. Germans were tasked to kill as much Slavs especially in the East to make way for German colonisation.

Heavy casualties of Soviet/Russian citizens basically was this if the Germans won those newly conquered places were going to be settled by Germans.

People dont realise the racial aspect of the Eastern Front. Germans killed as much as they can.

 

[nature is]

100% agree.
But at the same time, don't let your past destroy your future.

India is a prime example of this.
They are so fixated on "vadic" nonsense they are actually letting these nutters into their mainstream society, including scientific forums.


My personal theory (based on history) is that China has always been the hegemonic power in East Asia. They have always been at the top and look down on the "barbarians"

"The Japanese endonym Wa 倭 "Japan" derives from the Chinese exonym Wō 倭 "Japan, Japanese", a graphic pejorative Chinese character that had some offensive connotation, possibly "submissive, docile, obedient", "bowing; bent over", or "short person; dwarf"."

fast forward to the 19th century and China and Japan both tried to modernize, China failed and Japan succeeded.
Now the "dwarf barbarians" are actually able to beat china and be a dominant Asian power.


We all know the ego of Asian people, all Asian people from Turkey to Japan, so China is angry at Japan still not because of war or anything (Cultural revolution and great leap forward killed way way more Chinese then the Japanese ever could) but because of "face loss." Dwarf barbarians were able to defeat the mighty China.



Justice is relative and based on who has the power.
No power = no justice.
Just ask Palestinians.

The age old notion of barbarian had long expired in 1900s. The animosity with Japan was the heinous war crime they committed, and how Japan whitewashed them. Japanese textbook completely omitted those events. Why do you think Korea is equally angry with Japan? It's not about loss of face, Korea wasn't a great power.

You can't compare the causalities of great leap forward with war crime. That's screwed up logic. A fire breaks out on my land, for whatever reason, can never be compared with an outsider trespassing and setting fire.
Not to mention, most deaths were due to famine, result of failed policy. The death toll was also ridiculously exaggerated by the west.