Pentagon chief would back lifting restrictions on U.S. arms to Vietnam

[Penguin]

Actually, the lift of arm sale from US have more meaning than just the right to buy US weapons.
They are:
- Any small part or components with US origin in other airplane, warship, radars system, ...

At this moment, Vietnam already get approval to buy some non-lethal weapons, weapons for maritime security under a case by case of US.

For example, Vietnam can't buy this without approval of US:
EADS CASA C295 AEW

even this need US approval ( 3 already delivered )

What components are in there to warrent US approval?

I applaud your rational comment.

instead of being confrontational like some, you acknowledged Vietnam's sovereign right to buy weapons and want to discuss budget size and what weapons could possibly be a fit for Vietnam.

I'm of course no expert on Vietnam's possible budgetary limits, but I wonder how much advanced arms it could afford to buy from US?

You mentioned F35. Obviously quite expensive, and maybe overkill for what it needs

FMS + FMF anyone?

 

[Carlosa]

@Carlosa

I find your stance awkward. On the one hand, you are against the US meddling on our continent but in case of East Asia, you support the US meddling their affairs. It's like someone who doesn't take heroin, knowing all the negative effect this drug will cause but tells the Vietnamese to take it as it would give them the feeling of being a hero.

To make it clear, in Europe and the middle east, I support Russia since I don't agree with what the US / NATO is doing there, examples: Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya and certainly Ukraine as well as the encirclement of Russia by Nato.
These American articles express what I'm talking about regarding Europe and Russia, I totally agree with them:
https://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/02/whos-telling-the-big-lie-on-ukraine/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/putin-west-war_b_9991162.html

In the Asia Pacific region, I support USA since the big threat here is an imperialistic, expansionist China and that is definitely the big threat in Asia, and those of us that live in Asia are very clear about that. USA is the only power that can contain the chinese and we support that. Vietnamese also share this position (as well as many others). I should also say that USAs influence in East Asia has being rather benign since the end of the Vietnam war, they have nor started any war or created any major issues. We can live with that around here. Our big issue here is China.

I'm not anti American or anti anybody per se, neither I'm pro anybody per se, I oppose if I don't like something, I support if I like something. I believe that everybody has an agenda, some have a big agenda, some have an small agenda, but all have one. I don't like how Russia didn't give much support to Armenia during the conflict with Azerbaijan even that they are allies. I don't believe that any country is fully evil or fully a saint.

I believe that a "Deep state" / "Shadow government" has the real power in USA and is behind much if not all the American foreign policy actions to maintain hegemony and prevent the raising of a competing power (that has been the standard foreign policy for the last few decades). There is a growing movement of people in America that also believes that.

I actually call that "Deep state", a "financial oligarchy", money has taken control of the system, the politicians and the government and we know who it is that has / controls the money, right? Certain individuals control the Federal Reserve and the Banks and the mainstream media and that's the narrative that we always see and that's what brainwashes and controls people all over the world. Many people in America talk about the 1%, but the real core of the 1% is that financial oligarchy that I mentioned.

I get my news (the ones that I believe / trust most) from the so called "alternative media", but I don't follow anything / anybody per se, I have my own opinions and make my own analysis, I'm not a sheep that follows anybody. I very much dislike the way most of the alternative media and many of their writers / analysts follow a line that USA is evil and therefore, anybody that opposes USA is a saint.

Those writers (like Pepe Escobar for example or antiwar.com, etc) tend to always portrait China as some kind of benevolent / saint power just because they oppose USA and called what USA is doing in the SCS a provocation and look the other way / stay silent to what China is doing there. I believe they are wrong, dead wrong, China is a big threat, if they were to have the power that USA have, they would be even worse. I spent a lot of years in USA and I spend plenty of time in China also. I would choose to stay in USA rather than China any day. The alternative media / movement are very biased in their support of China.

Recently I started to see articles in the alternative media and in RT attacking Vietnam and India because "they are allying with USA against China and Russia". That's a total distortion of the reality. It reminds me of the distortions in the mainstream media. In this part of the world, we are very clear about what's going here in the same way that you understand what's going on in Europe.

So, that's my position and how I think, it may seem strange or awkward to others, but that's what it is and I'm very clear about it. What you call the "US meddling their affairs" is seen a bit different in this part of the world, here we mind "China meddling in our affairs". We are waiting for the American cavalry to come to the SCS. If you were to live here, you'd have a better understanding of this.

@gambit We had a bit of a misunderstanding in the past, this explains better where I'm coming from. Hope you understand.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

To make it clear, in Europe and the middle east, I support Russia since I don't agree with what the US / NATO is doing there, examples: Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya and certainly Ukraine as well as the encirclement of Russia by Nato.
This American article expresses what I'm talking about regarding Europe and Russia, I totally agree with it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/putin-west-war_b_9991162.html

In the Asia Pacific region, I support USA since the big threat here is an imperialistic, expansionist China and that is definitely the big threat in Asia, and those of us that live in Asia are very clear about that. USA is the only power that can contain the chinese and we support that. Vietnamese also share this position (as well as many others). I should also say that USAs influence in East Asia has being rather benign since the end of the Vietnam war, they have nor started any war or created any major issues. We can live with that around here. Our big issue here is China.

I'm not anti American or anti anybody per se, neither I'm pro anybody per se, I oppose if I don't like something, I support if I like something. I believe that everybody has an agenda, some have a big agenda, some have an small agenda, but all have one. I don't like how Russia didn't give much support to Armenia during the conflict with Azerbaijan even that they are allies. I don't believe that any country is fully evil or fully a saint.

I believe that a "Deep state" / "Shadow government" has the real power in USA and is behind much if not all the American foreign policy actions to maintain hegemony and prevent the raising of a competing power (that has been the standard foreign policy for the last few decades). There is a growing movement of people in America that also believes that.

I actually call that "Deep state", a "financial oligarchy", money has taken control of the system, the politicians and the government and we know who it is that has / controls the money, right? Certain individuals control the Federal Reserve and the Banks and the mainstream media and that's the narrative that we always see and that's what brainwashes and controls people all over the world. Many people in America talk about the 1%, but the real core of the 1% is that financial oligarchy that I mentioned.

I get my news (the ones that I believe / trust most) from the so called "alternative media", but I don't follow anything / anybody per se, I have my own opinions and make my own analysis, I'm not a sheep that follows anybody. I very much dislike the way most of the alternative media and many of their writers / analysts follow a line that USA is evil and therefore, anybody that opposes USA is a saint.

Those writers (like Pepe Escobar for example or antiwar.com, etc) tend to always portrait China as some kind of benevolent / saint power just because they oppose USA and called what USA is doing in the SCS a provocation and look the other way / stay silent to what China is doing there. I believe they are wrong, dead wrong, China is a big threat, if they were to have the power that USA have, they would be even worse. I spent a lot of years in USA and I spend plenty of time in China also. I would choose to stay in USA rather than China any day. The alternative media / movement are very biased in their support of China.

Recently I started to see articles in the alternative media and in RT attacking Vietnam and India because "they are allying with USA against China and Russia". That's a total distortion of the reality. It reminds me of the distortions in the mainstream media. In this part of the world, we are very clear about what's going here in the same way that you understand what's going on in Europe.

So, that's my position and how I think, it may seem strange or awkward to others, but that's what it is and I'm very clear about it. What you call the "US meddling their affairs" is seen a bit different in this part of the world, here we mind "China meddling in our affairs". We are waiting for the American cavalry to come to the SCS. If you were to live here, you'd have a better understanding of this.

@gambit We had a bit of a misunderstanding in the past, this explains better where I'm coming from. Hope you understand.

Sorry, that's an inacceptable double standard void of historical facts and logic.

 

[Carlosa]

Sorry, that's an inacceptable double standard void of historical facts and logic.

Its a double standard based on the reality that there are 2 hegemons in our region, so we side with the most benign one in order to contain the worse one. The historical facts support the need to contain the chinese hegemon since their typical practice (supported by history) is that they always tried to either conquer their neighbors or make them tributary states. The Vietnamese know those historical facts very well since they been in that situation a few times and they had to constantly fight China for the last 2000 years. What part of that you don't get?

The Vietnamese already had the big fight with the US, enough of that, they are in the reconciliation phase now and they are certainly not going to allow themselves to be manipulated or controlled by USA's political designs, but they also know that they need further cooperation with them for the sake of containing China and to have a more balanced strategic situation in East Asia.

 

[BoQ77]

I must tell you, at this moment, US and Vietnam benefits meeting each other.
US is the late comer, they should run at double speed.

They lifted trade embargo in 1994 and Vietnam exported a lot to US
if they don't lift arm ambargo, they would suffer a lot more of trade deficit soon, especially after TPP
LOL.

 

[Carlosa]

I must tell you, at this moment, US and Vietnam benefits meeting each other.
US is the late comer, they should run at double speed.

They lifted trade embargo in 1994 and Vietnam exported a lot to US
if they don't lift arm ambargo, they would suffer a lot more of trade deficit soon, especially after TPP
LOL.

Absolutely. Actually, the Americans have been too soft with China. Its time to get serious.

One American plane was intercepted by chinese planes on the 17th, that's very good, it will create more anti chinese feelings in USA.

 

[BoQ77]

May 18 2016
STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ON PRESIDENT OBAMA’S VISIT TO VIETNAM
Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator John McCain, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, released the following statement on President Obama’s upcoming visit to Vietnam:

“The President’s trip to Vietnam this week represents another positive development in the partnership between our two countries. Today, Vietnam is an important emerging regional partner that is committed to upholding the principles of the ruled-based order in the Asia-Pacific: freedom of the seas, open trade, and peaceful resolution of international disputes.


“Given our shared interests with Vietnam, I believe the United States must pursue three lines of effort in the years ahead to encourage a greater role for Vietnam in promoting stability and security in the Asia-Pacific.

• “First, the United States must continue to work with partners like Vietnam to enhance maritime information sharing and response capabilities throughout the South China Sea. Over the last year, the Senate Armed Services Committee has led the way in creating the Maritime Security Initiative (MSI), a half-billion dollar effort that will work alongside the State Department’s Foreign Military Financing program to enhance the capabilities of countries like Vietnam and the Philippines as they seek to respond to increased maritime coercion.
• “Second, we will need to enable Vietnam’s ability to contribute to the maritime space by finally removing the prohibition on the sale of lethal military equipment to the Government of Vietnam. This symbolic ban of weapon sales is a product of our past history and an inhibitor of our future relationship. Vietnam should be allowed to purchase land and sea-based platforms that facilitate the Vietnamese armed forces' ability to operate more effectively on, above, and within its territorial waters. We cannot ask our partners to contribute more while continuing to take steps to directly limit the level of their contribution. The time has come for a full lifting of this prohibition.
• “Third, the United States Pacific Fleet and Vietnam People’s Navy (VPN) must move to expand their relationship, including increased port visits by U.S. naval vessels to Vietnamese ports and participation of the VPN in bilateral and even multilateral naval exercises.

“While the security elements of the U.S.-Vietnam relationship have become more pressing, it is also encouraging to witness the work the United States is doing to support Vietnam’s quest to train a new generations of leaders. This will reach new heights in the years ahead as we establish the Fulbright University Vietnam (FUV) in Ho Chi Minh City. I visited the nascent institution last year and am convinced it will be a catalyst for enhancing higher education in Vietnam and encouraging people-to-people engagement between our two countries.


“Finally, I believe that the President must use his trip to continue to publicly raise America’s support for civil society in Vietnam, including advocates for religious freedom, press freedom, and labor rights who seek to use peaceful means to build a strong and prosperous Vietnam that respects human rights and the rule of law. The President must also call for the release of political prisoners and other activists who have done nothing more than exercise their fundamental rights. As we continue to enhance our security partnership, it must be clear that America expects Vietnam to continue making progress on human rights.”

###
http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public...-mccain-on-president-obama-s-visit-to-vietnam

The Maritime Security Initiative is designed to unfold during a five-year period, at a cost of U.S. $425 million, according to The Diplomat. Funding has been allocated to help the Philippines connect its National Coast Water Center with other maritime domain organizations; assist Vietnam with modernizing its maritime patrol aircraft and vessels; host multinational engagements; and provide seminars on human rights, according to The Diplomat.

 

[ahojunk]

I wonder if Mr Obama will ask for access to Cam Ranh Bay.

If successful, the Americans will "pushed out" the Russians from this naval base.

 

[BoQ77]

I wonder if Mr Obama will ask for access to Cam Ranh Bay.

If successful, the Americans will "pushed out" the Russians from this naval base.

Singapore, Russia, France, Japan accessed Cam Ranh Bay this year. Next, India... Why not US?

The naval base? IT is for Vietnam Navy only

 

[Viet]

I wonder if Mr Obama will ask for access to Cam Ranh Bay.

If successful, the Americans will "pushed out" the Russians from this naval base.

you are clueless. Cam Ranh bay is big, and divided into two parts:
- inner part: reserved for VN Navy, the home port of our submarine fleet.
- outer part: free for foreign warships. vessels can receive maintenance, fuel, food, fresh water, accomodations, resting place. they must pay for the service of course. nothing is free.

so why not? russian and american warships can dock side by side in the outer part of the bay.
sure, if they don´t like each other and don´t want to see each other, either in the bay, it will make us difficult. maybe we can organise the schedule.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Its a double standard based on the reality that there are 2 hegemons in our region, so we side with the most benign one in order to contain the worse one. The historical facts support the need to contain the chinese hegemon since their typical practice (supported by history) is that they always tried to either conquer their neighbors or make them tributary states. The Vietnamese know those historical facts very well since they been in that situation a few times and they had to constantly fight China for the last 2000 years. What part of that you don't get?

The Vietnamese already had the big fight with the US, enough of that, they are in the reconciliation phase now and they are certainly not going to allow themselves to be manipulated or controlled by USA's political designs, but they also know that they need further cooperation with them for the sake of containing China and to have a more balanced strategic situation in East Asia.

Reality is that a young country by any measure has dropped two A-bombs on civilians, napalmed a huge region and sprayed Agent Orange where people have been suffering for generations and into the future and that country is the cavalero de fina estampa.

Now compare that to 2000 years of interaction between China and its neighbours.

 

[Carlosa]

Reality is that a young country by any measure has dropped two A-bombs on civilians, napalmed a huge region and sprayed Agent Orange where people have been suffering for generations and into the future and that country is the cavalero de fina estampa.

Now compare that to 2000 years of interaction between China and its neighbours.

Simple answer, ask the Vietnamese people themselves what they think about it. Don't try to impose your views on them, or talk on their behalf.

They got over it already. They see that war as a blimp in time, is all in past tense, China, on the other hand, its next door and they been fighting with them for 2000 years, not 10 years. Vietnamese are the most pro American country in Asia and I'm talking about the population, 70 to 80 % like USA. You might find it difficult to understand, but that's what it is. Vietnamese hate chinese, they hate their guts. Period. In this region, everybody hates the chinese and they have good reasons for that. You talk about the war, but Vietnamese people don't talk about it anymore.

The whole region is pro American, they are very clear about what the threat is, they know and understand chinese very well. Actually, chinese actions have pushed all these countries into the lap of USA.

2 A bombs or not, ask the Japanese what they prefer, They also massively dislike the chinese. Now the chinese are starting to drop hints that they have rights to Okinawa. China practices hard core imperialism, the old fashion way, they take from others what they want as they are doing now in the SCS and once they are done there, they'll go for the Malacca strait. I guess you don't see that.

I understand your position very well and I share much of your convictions, but the world is not all black and white and there is more than one hegemon and people here have already decided which hegemon they dislike most.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Simple answer, ask the Vietnamese people themselves what they think about it. Don't try to impose your views on them, or talk on their behalf.

They got over it already. They see that war as a blimp in time, is all in past tense, China, on the other hand, its next door and they been fighting with them for 2000 years, not 10 years. Vietnamese are the most pro American country in Asia and I'm talking about the population, 70 to 80 % like USA. You might find it difficult to understand, but that's what it is. Vietnamese hate chinese, they hate their guts. Period. In this region, everybody hates the chinese and they have good reasons for that. You talk about the war, but Vietnamese people don't talk about it anymore.

The whole region is pro American, they are very clear about what the threat is, they know and understand chinese very well. Actually, chinese actions have pushed all these countries into the lap of USA.

2 A bombs or not, ask the Japanese what they prefer, They also massively dislike the chinese. Now the chinese are starting to drop hints that they have rights to Okinawa. China practices hard core imperialism, the old fashion way, they take from others what they want as they are doing now in the SCS and once they are done there, they'll go for the Malacca strait. I guess you don't see that.

I understand your position very well and I share much of your convictions, but the world is not all black and white and there is more than one hegemon and people here have already decided which hegemon they dislike most.

What you describe is called Stockholm Syndrome. Not too long ago, the vast majority in Germany loved the US, but this has turned as more people are seeing behind the veil of the comprehensive propaganda. Your lack of sophistication in understanding how comprehensive propaganda works is appalling. I recommend you to read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

 

[Viet]

What you describe is called Stockholm Syndrome. Not too long ago, the vast majority in Germany loved the US, but this has turned as more people are seeing behind the veil of the comprehensive propaganda. Your lack of sophistication in understanding how comprehensive propaganda works is appalling. I recommend you to read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

come on man, you are just a hopeless leftist loser with a hidden propaganda. at least one thing you should recognise it is always true: today is more important than yesterday.

 

[Imran Khan]

so soon viets also sit on congress doors begging for approvals like us ?