Pentagon backs proposal to give US fighter jets ‘Make in India’ tag

[Ali Zadi]

Conformal fuel tanks has an adverse effect on the handle characteristics of the F16.

 

[wiseone2]

And that you know, right? Halfway across the world

you believe the reasons the Indian government stated. They mentioned lowest cost and transfer of technology. Given the haggling with Rafale and $200 million plus unit cost both of them do not hold water

Conformal fuel tanks has an adverse effect on the handle characteristics of the F16.

By definition aren't conformal fuel tanks supposed not to impact a fighter aircraft performance ?

 

[Skillrex]

Will USA able to sell us 200 fighters in a matter of 5 years? Our fleet strength is depleting and Tejas production rate is not good enough to fill the gaps. In a two front war we may need huge number of fighters. While Tejas, Migs and Mirages fight Pakistan we can have F-16, MKI ready for China. A second production line by a private firm for F-16 is OK.

I am interested in AESA, electronic warfare and Aim-120D.

Guys, Any idea about the specs of F-16 Block 70? Cost?

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thanks for the tag mate.. F16 is an excellent jet.. and iconic.. in my view.. i am stil very sceptical about induction of F16 no matter which version US offers.. point is still F16.. a jet which has been flown and still flying in our neighbourhood for over 2 decades.. is it good idea to still go for f16? i dont think so.. yes it will bring technologies.. but it will take years to absorb those certain techs from US.. but we cant really over look the equation of our neighbour jet, as they know d inside out of the jet.. yes yes.. it will different V70.. or whatever.. but its still F16.. And one more point.. F16 is been slowly dying.. and LM will do anything and everything to keep its product alive.. Simple !!

 

[wiseone2]

thanks for the tag mate.. F16 is an excellent jet.. and iconic.. in my view.. i am stil very sceptical about induction of F16 no matter which version US offers.. point is still F16.. a jet which has been flown and still flying in our neighbourhood for over 2 decades.. is it good idea to still go for f16? i dont think so.. yes it will bring technologies.. but it will take years to absorb those certain techs from US.. but we cant really over look the equation of our neighbour jet, as they know d inside out of the jet.. yes yes.. it will different V70.. or whatever.. but its still F16.. And one more point.. F16 is been slowly dying.. and LM will do anything and everything to keep its product alive.. Simple !!

if the price is right (I am expecting the price to be high) and the IAF can maintain a 5 year inventory of spares
why not induct 150 F-16s to do base air defense ?

 

[Kinetic]

thanks for the tag mate.. F16 is an excellent jet.. and iconic.. in my view.. i am stil very sceptical about induction of F16 no matter which version US offers.. point is still F16.. a jet which has been flown and still flying in our neighbourhood for over 2 decades.. is it good idea to still go for f16? i dont think so.. yes it will bring technologies.. but it will take years to absorb those certain techs from US.. but we cant really over look the equation of our neighbour jet, as they know d inside out of the jet.. yes yes.. it will different V70.. or whatever.. but its still F16.. And one more point.. F16 is been slowly dying.. and LM will do anything and everything to keep its product alive.. Simple !!

Pakistani F-16 and Indian F-16 will be totally different just like Chinese Su-30 and Indian MKI.

 

[Skillrex]

if the price is right (I am expecting the price to be high) and the IAF can maintain a 5 year inventory of spares
why not induct 150 F-16s to do base air defense ?

ok fine.. Suppose we make 150 odd F16 for base defense.. arent you forgetting something ?? our own homegrown lca is designed specifically for this exact job.. thats point defence.. lca was never designed for long range mission.. after so many hurdles lca is finally on induction path.. and you wana kill it with f16 ... final nail on LCA coffin.
secondly.. say even after all d odds.. we do make 120-150+ f16.. it will take atleast 5-6 years for the first jet to roll out.. @PARIKRAMA.. m i right or wrong? little help here..

 

[wiseone2]

ok fine.. Suppose we make 150 odd F16 for base defense.. arent you forgetting something ?? our own homegrown lca is designed specifically for this exact job.. thats point defence.. lca was never designed for long range mission.. after so many hurdles lca is finally on induction path.. and you wana kill it with f16 ... final nail on LCA coffin.
secondly.. say even after all d odds.. we do make 120-150+ f16.. it will take atleast 5-6 years for the first jet to roll out.. @PARIKRAMA.. m i right or wrong? little help here..

does LCA have its own engine ? you are importing the engines from Americans

 

[Skillrex]

Pakistani F-16 and Indian F-16 will be totally different just like Chinese Su-30 and Indian MKI.

yes.. some v70... if i am not wrong.. but my problem is its f16 with little more bells and whistles then pakistanis..

 

[Kinetic]

View attachment 332038 View attachment 332039 View attachment 332040


Hindustan times claims its $70 Mn

Other costs includes base infra, support package, training, spares, weapons, etc etc.. That will be over and above this $70 Mn

SABR + AIM-120D combo looks good enough for chinese low end fighters like J-10 and others.

yes.. some v70... if i am not wrong.. but my problem is its f16 with little more bells and whistles then pakistanis..

We are not going to buy it rightway, first Defmin will find it worthy or not.

 

[Skillrex]

SABR + AIM-120D combo looks good enough for chinese low end fighters like J-10 and others.




We are not going to buy it rightway, first Defmin will find it worthy or not.

The way LM are pushing it with newspaper ad.. facebook ad.. and the way ongoing US-India relation are going.. it would be very difficult for our DF to reject it rightway.. i am all hands for f18.. but i as i said m very much sceptical with f16.. 3rd.. not very much comfy with buying that many jets from US.. as it may create problems in future..

 

[Kinetic]

The way LM are pushing it with newspaper ad.. facebook ad.. and the way ongoing US-India relation are going.. it would be very difficult for our DF to reject it rightway.. i am all hands for f18.. but i as i said m very much sceptical with f16.. 3rd.. not very much comfy with buying that many jets from US.. as it may create problems in future..

Adv and all will not even make a 0.0001% impact on MP or BJP. If F-16 and LM's offer suite our needs, it will join IAF else no. This is 2016, people understand advertisements.

 

[Perpendicular]

US has linked the future of a joint jet engine development project to a proposal to manufacture American combat aircraft under the Make in India initiative, with Pentagon formally putting all options on the table, including sharing of high-end weapons, radar and power plant technology. India will now be able to formally evaluate two proposals from US companies Boeing (F/A 18 Super Hornet) and Lockheed Martin (F16 Super Viper) to make jets in India with Pentagon giving a written assurance for transfer of technology.
It will be a tricky situation now for Indian defence planners, since Pentagon has linked the tech transfer with F16 or F18. Interesting times ahead

 

[wiseone2]

US has linked the future of a joint jet engine development project to a proposal to manufacture American combat aircraft under the Make in India initiative, with Pentagon formally putting all options on the table, including sharing of high-end weapons, radar and power plant technology. India will now be able to formally evaluate two proposals from US companies Boeing (F/A 18 Super Hornet) and Lockheed Martin (F16 Super Viper) to make jets in India with Pentagon giving a written assurance for transfer of technology.
It will be a tricky situation now for Indian defence planners, since Pentagon has linked the tech transfer with F16 or F18. Interesting times ahead

Jet engine technology is worth acquiring 150 F-16 fighter aircraft

 

[PARIKRAMA]

India wont get Jet Engine tech- Not the researched part, not the metallurgy, nor the core modules..
The best you will get is a licenced production with max 70% localisation enabling it to be pitched under Make In India. The Pune plant will make those engines ...

The issue is critical part when left out does not help us much. There is a reason why Safran said Kaveri and did not say M88 new version.

On top without formal foundation agreements and unconditional Senate approval, the rest 30% content of the engine will never be shared..

ok fine.. Suppose we make 150 odd F16 for base defense.. arent you forgetting something ?? our own homegrown lca is designed specifically for this exact job.. thats point defence.. lca was never designed for long range mission.. after so many hurdles lca is finally on induction path.. and you wana kill it with f16 ... final nail on LCA coffin.
secondly.. say even after all d odds.. we do make 120-150+ f16.. it will take atleast 5-6 years for the first jet to roll out.. @PARIKRAMA.. m i right or wrong? little help here..

Any approval given then about 3 years for the plant setup and formal beginning of production after that. and ramping gradually to stable production in max 2 years.

Since it will be assembled the first one will come out within 1 year of plant being live so from today

1 year (for decision making)+3 years plant+ 1 year rollout = 5 years approx or more..

And yes if we get so many F16s their capability, range and advanced avionics, radar and EW will ensure IAF will like the more as frontline fighters even though they come categorically above light fighter due to weight. That will make IAF surely not think beyond 120 LCA and max 80 Mark1A any given day.

That is the sole reason i am vehemently against Saab and LM offer of Gripen and F16s. Whatever be the case, LCA is our baby, we need to make it work and iron out the issues causing delays and increase the production rate..

 

[jha]

The US has linked the future of a joint jet engine development project to a proposal to manufacture American combat aircraft under the Make in India initiative, with Pentagon formally putting all options on the table, including sharing of high-end weapons, radar and power plant technology, during Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar's recent visit.

Sources told ET that India will now be able to formally evaluate two proposals from US companies Boeing (F/A 18 Super Hornet) and
Lockheed Martin (F16 Super Viper) to make jets in India with Pentagon giving a written assurance for transfer of technology.

A renewed push for the jet aircraft project came during the Parrikar visit, with an assurance that high-end jet engine technology that India seeks for its future combat aircraft programmes is also on the table.

In fact, officials told ET that US Secretary for Defence Ashton Carter may be visiting India as early as December to take the process forward. Sources who took part in the discussions said that while in April, when the two US companies had first offered the two jets for a Make in India plan, there was reluctance in Washington on how much technology could be shared.

However recent initiatives, including India's entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) and the signing of a military logistics support agreement, have changed things on the ground.

It is learnt that the offer from Boeing, which makes the F/A 18, is for the setting up of a new worldclass production facility in India that would cater to the production of futuristic combat aircraft.

Lockheed Martin proposes to shift its F 16 fighter line from Texas to India as the sole production facility in the world.

As reported first by ET, in April rivals Boeing and Lockheed Martin jointly met top defence ministry officials in New Delhi offering to locally manufacture the fighter jets.


The offer came after Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar publicly stated that the ministry is interested in setting up production lines for 'one or two' fighters at the earliest, beyond the Rafale fighter jet deal with France.


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