Peace in South Asia

[ANDUBYLL]

My perspective


As the largest nation in South Asia, India has to be seen as benevolent peace monger , as the nation, ready to do most for other smaller nations, so that historical animosity that exists are eradicated and peace returns to South Asia. Smaller nations to recipriocate

1) Solve Kashmir : Announce ceasefire : Provide for a fair resolution to the Kashmir issue as per the requirements at partition. Both Pakistan and India to conduct resolution in Kashmir. People who can trace themselves or their ancestors to prepartioned state of Jammu and Kashmir to vote in an UN sponsored plebcite. Only two options as was the case in 1947. Ascension to India or Pakistan. Independance option not to be exercised.Both nations to respect the judgement of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

2) Pakistan and Bangladesh to accept the historical reality that their nation was created for Indian muslims. Both nations to set a target of x number of Indian muslims to legally migrate to their nations. Ditto for Hindus of Pakistan and Bangladesh to India.

3) Solve border disputes between India and Bangladesh with visa free access to people across common border. Border jointly manned by both nations defence forces. Illegal immigration to be stopped, in place visa free travel through normal channels.

4) Pakistan and Afghanistan to resolve the Durand line, work for peace in Afghanistan, work alongside Indian and coaliation forces to stablise Afghanistan. Accept that Pashtuns on both sides of border can be of different nationalities. Make steps to ensure that x number of Afghan refugees are send back to Afghanistan as part of the peace process.

5) India and Pakistan to establish a free trade zone with zero tariffs, zero impedement to cross border commerce and establish greater trade and people to people link.

6) Reduce defence expenditures , engage in nuclear disarmnament and take steps to ensure , education becomes no 1 priority.

Cheers
Just my few rupees

 

[UnitedPak]

My perspective


As the largest nation in South Asia, India has to be seen as benevolent peace monger , as the nation, ready to do most for other smaller nations, so that historical animosity that exists are eradicated and peace returns to South Asia. Smaller nations to recipriocate

1) Solve Kashmir : Announce ceasefire : Provide for a fair resolution to the Kashmir issue as per the requirements at partition. Both Pakistan and India to conduct resolution in Kashmir. People who can trace themselves or their ancestors to prepartioned state of Jammu and Kashmir to vote in an UN sponsored plebcite. Only two options as was the case in 1947. Ascension to India or Pakistan. Independance option not to be exercised.Both nations to respect the judgement of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

Yes I absolutely agree on the plebiscite part, but I don't understand that point about tracing ancestors. Is this a bash at the higher birth rate of Muslims in Kashmir?

2) Pakistan and Bangladesh to accept the historical reality that their nation was created for Indian muslims. Both nations to set a target of x number of Indian muslims to legally migrate to their nations. Ditto for Hindus of Pakistan and Bangladesh to India.

Wrong.

Pakistan gained independence by forming a union between its provinces which happened to have shared religion, history and culture. Everyone in those provinces regardless of religion have a right to be there.

India also gained independence by the union of all its provinces, so there is no "creation" going on anywhere. Both countries gained independence together.
Partitions happened, that's the past, but its not a solution to be used again.

India has to take care of its own people.

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Yes I absolutely agree on the plebiscite part, but I don't understand that point about tracing ancestors. Is this a bash at the higher birth rate of Muslims in Kashmir?

Wrong.

Pakistan gained independence by forming a union between its provinces which happened to have shared religion, history and culture. Everyone in those provinces regardless of religion have a right to be there.

India also gained independence by the union of all its provinces, so there is no "creation" going on anywhere. Both countries gained independence together.
Partitions happened, that's the past, but its not a solution to be used again.

India has to take care of its own people.

No, A plebscite was supposed to be done at the time of partition. Today there are many other non Kashmiris in both Indian Kashmir and Pakistani Kashmir. I really dont think its necessary to involve people like Biharis and Punjabis in Jammu or Punjabis and Pathans in Pakistani Kashmir, if they or their ancestors were not there in 1947.

Ok and a very good rebuttal. However I am led to believe that Pakistan was to be the homeland of Indian muslims , the so called two nations theory. Since we disagree, we can see what others opinions

 

[UnitedPak]

No, A pleb
scite was supposed to be done at the time of partition. Today there are many other non Kashmiris in both Indian Kashmir and Pakistani Kashmir. I really dont think its necessary to involve people like Biharis and Punjabis in Jammu or Punjabis and Pathans in Pakistani Kashmir, if they or their ancestors were not there in 1947.

Ok and a very good rebuttal. However I am led to believe that Pakistan was to be the homeland of Indian muslims , the so called two nations theory. Since we disagree, we can see what others opinions

The issue of the Partition and the Pakistani identity has been discussed to death in other threads. Please look through the Military History forum. You will find lengthy threads pinned. They contain a lot of info, debates and responses.
You will also find a handful of Kashmir threads with plenty of info and debates.

Just for the record, not all of 'Kashmir' is Kashmiri speaking. There are Punjabi, Pashtun areas, Baltistan, Giglit, Jammu, Ladakh, Kargil, Aksai Chin etc. Kashmiris however are the biggest group.

 

[roadrunner]

Why should Pakistan take all of India's Muslims?

Pakistan has always been inhabited by people related to the people of today.

India can take some more Hindus, Pakistan can't take all of India's Muslims.

It's not right either for Pakistan to do so.

There should always be limited migration to countries.

Eradicating lineages with other lineages is something some people can't understand.

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Not all of India's muslims. India is a secular nation, therefore Indian muslims do not need to migrate to Pakistan or anywhere else. I mean , because Pakistan is a nation founded for Indian Muslims, then it should allow some migration (say 10,000 - 100,000) Muslims to Pakistan annually.

 

[roadrunner]

Not all of India's muslims. India is a secular nation, therefore Indian muslims do not need to migrate to Pakistan or anywhere else. I mean , because Pakistan is a nation founded for Indian Muslims, then it should allow some migration (say 10,000 - 100,000) Muslims to Pakistan annually.

Look.

How on earth was Pakistan founded for Kerlaite Muslims?

You think they're all going to go to Pakistan and live on top of one another?

When it says a place for Indian Muslims, it just means that under colonial times by the British, the Indian Muslims that were in the Indus Valley could have a place founded for themselves. It doesn't mean some Keralite should migrate there.

If Kerela Muslims want their own place they got to leave India and form their own place. If they want to be part of Pakistan, that's fine. Just rename Kerala as Pakistan.

It doesn't mean all the Muslims in the world can migrate there.

 

[UnitedPak]

Not all of India's muslims. India is a secular nation, therefore Indian muslims do not need to migrate to Pakistan or anywhere else. I mean , because Pakistan is a nation founded for Indian Muslims, then it should allow some migration (say 10,000 - 100,000) Muslims to Pakistan annually.

"Indian Muslims" before 1947 referred to the North Western provinces of the British Indian Empire which were vastly Muslim majority and had a different identity, history, culture and language from the rest of British India.
After 1947, Muslims from India were welcomed in to become Pakistanis, but the borders were closed again around 1950.

Nobody is referring to today's "Indian Muslims", but the extremist Hindutvas who want to throw all Muslims out of India.

Dont take quotes out of context.

 

[Beskar]

Not all of India's muslims. India is a secular nation, therefore Indian muslims do not need to migrate to Pakistan or anywhere else. I mean , because Pakistan is a nation founded for Indian Muslims, then it should allow some migration (say 10,000 - 100,000) Muslims to Pakistan annually.

Pakistan wasn't formed for the Muslims of India, but for the Muslims of "South Asia". That statement could be understood better if you understand that Bangali's, Pashtun's, Punjabi's, Kashmiri's, Balochis and Sindhis aren't from the same Ethnicity. Geographically, the area where these people belong to was South-Asia. So basically you can't say that Pakistan was formed for the Muslims of "India".

 

[roadrunner]

Pakistan wasn't formed for the Muslims of India, but for the Muslims of "South Asia". That statement could be understood better if you understand that Bangali's, Pashtun's, Punjabi's, Kashmiri's, Balochis and Sindhis aren't from the same Ethnicity. Geographically, the area where these people belong to was South-Asia. So basically you can't say that Pakistan was formed for the Muslims of "India".

ummmm ........

 

[beetel]

Not all of India's muslims. India is a secular nation, therefore Indian muslims do not need to migrate to Pakistan or anywhere else. I mean , because Pakistan is a nation founded for Indian Muslims, then it should allow some migration (say 10,000 - 100,000) Muslims to Pakistan annually.

What are you on..
ARE they sheeps that can be transported in thousands..
They are proud Indians and nothing like this can be imaginable ..
cut this crap ...

 

[roopesh]

Why should Pakistan take all of India's Muslims?
Pakistan has always been inhabited by people related to the people of today.
India can take some more Hindus, Pakistan can't take all of India's Muslims.
It's not right either for Pakistan to do so. There should always be limited migration to countries. Eradicating lineages with other lineages is something some people can't understand.

Thanks roadrunner. Most of the pakistan ppl here support you. I believe India welcomes all hindus if they apply for indian visa. Now you can understand yourself that why pakistan failed to represent as ISLAMIC REPUBLIC. It only made to terrors to use holy name of Jihad. You dont care for Afghan muslims, Indian muslims.. what made you so special to care of kashmir muslims. OR is it only for water ????

There is no way India hands over kashmir land to pakistan. UN US what ever ..who cares for UN..they are puppet of US. Except colleting money, donating food packets is there anything else UN doing?
So lets see if pakistan want to get kashmir ppl

 

[ahmeddsid]

i SAY bring back the League Of Nations, all is forgiven! UN is UNable to do anything in Palestine and looked on a mute spectator! When UN rules apply to the US and its allies, then India will Implement all its agreements. Let me reiterate here that Kashmir is an Integral Part of India, just like you believe Karachi to be an integral part of Pakistan!

 

[ANDUBYLL]

Pakistan wasn't formed for the Muslims of India, but for the Muslims of "South Asia". That statement could be understood better if you understand that Bangali's, Pashtun's, Punjabi's, Kashmiri's, Balochis and Sindhis aren't from the same Ethnicity. Geographically, the area where these people belong to was South-Asia. So basically you can't say that Pakistan was formed for the Muslims of "India".

In 1940, at the 27th annual session of the Muslim League, held in Lahore, Jinnah with other Muslim leaders analyzed the political problems of Muslims in great deal. A resolution was passed unanimously which is known as Lahore Resolution. In this resolution it was demanded that Muslims of the Indian Sub-Continent should have a separate homeland comprising the regions of the Sub-Continent having a Muslim majority.
Indian sub-continent, South Asia and India can be interchanged because pre 1947, all of the area that became East and West Pakistan , were part of and administrated directly by the British as British India.

Look.

How on earth was Pakistan founded for Kerlaite Muslims?

You think they're all going to go to Pakistan and live on top of one another?

When it says a place for Indian Muslims, it just means that under colonial times by the British, the Indian Muslims that were in the Indus Valley could have a place founded for themselves. It doesn't mean some Keralite should migrate there.

If Kerela Muslims want their own place they got to leave India and form their own place. If they want to be part of Pakistan, that's fine. Just rename Kerala as Pakistan.

It doesn't mean all the Muslims in the world can migrate there.



Pakistan was also found for Keralite muslims. Why should you discriminate between muslims communities of pre independance India ? If Pakistan was to be the homeland of Indian muslims, then one and all should be included , not a select group of people native to the regions that constitued Pakistan?

 

[ANDUBYLL]

i SAY bring back the League Of Nations, all is forgiven! UN is UNable to do anything in Palestine and looked on a mute spectator! When UN rules apply to the US and its allies, then India will Implement all its agreements. Let me reiterate here that Kashmir is an Integral Part of India, just like you believe Karachi to be an integral part of Pakistan!

Whilst , the Raja of Kashmir made a decision to make his state a part of India, the unique position of a muslim majority state coming to India willingly is disputed. In fact , India should abide by the UN resolution and hold a plebscite !