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PDF Debate : Can ISIS establish a state in Iraq & Syria?

In my opinion, ISIS can and will and indeed did establish itself in the Middle East.

Now, i do not know much about politics, so my point is going to present in a pure military point of view. And the following short discussion would be based on past ISIS miltary action and prediction of future ISIS move.

1.) ISIS is an ideaology, and Ideology feed off people, as long as there are people supporting ISIS ideology, the organisation will exist, one way or another.

2.) What ISIS currently (from 2011 - present) fighting now is what the US Military Termed a 4th generation warfare. Where a war not simply involve combatent and non-combatent, but also political entity and civilian. In another word an insurgent with its own land.

3.) The inability of Iraq and Syria to puch ISIS with conventional warfare

4.) The ISIS is settling itself with conventional warfare with Iraq and Syria and unless the ISIS harm international/US interest in the area, International Organisation (UN) or US will not put boots on the ground, as with the international reaction to Syria Civil war.

5.) As long as Syrian Civil War continue to exist, this will give a breathing place (Or a breather) for ISIS to regroup and reorganisation even if Iraq push off all ISIS element within Iraq, the ISIS will simply move back to syria and regroup. Unless the international entity put an end to Syria Civil war, there are no way Syria can resist an ISIS present in its country.

6.) Iraqi Force was not trained to fight convention set piece battle, the bulk of the force was train on counter-insurgency, as with what the country gone thru in the past 9 years, they weren't train with combine warfare, and retraining takes time.

7.) ISIS battle strategy is divide and conquerer, where they bet on other country would not react when they target their secular enemy, and indeed it doesn't (A la case with PKK and Turkish, Kurd and Iraq, Iraq and Iran and Lebannon) As long as seculism exist, the ISIS would continue to bet on local enemy and use it agaisnt the host nation.

8.) US/Allies would not have stomach for another all out Iraq war, given they just withdrew 3 year prior.

9.) In the case with Iraq, the only way for IRaq to stand up tp ISIS is to disband itself (Military and government ) and present itself with all the resource to a foreign entity (US/UN) and have them control their military and country again fully, otherwise there are going to be a part of the government or Iraq would not want to participate and unless it's a hey-ho one giant push and flush the ISIS out of Iraq completely, any faction that harbour the ISIS would potential be the ground that ISIS rekindle. Think of the Sunni population in Iraq...

Hence from all the above factor presents, i concluded that ISIS would be sucessfully establishing statehoood in Iraq and Syria
 
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In my opinion, ISIS can and will and indeed did establish itself in the Middle East.

Now, i do not know much about politics, so my point is going to present in a pure military point of view. And the following short discussion would be based on past ISIS miltary action and prediction of future ISIS move.

1.) ISIS is an ideaology, and Ideology feed off people, as long as there are people supporting ISIS ideology, the organisation will exist, one way or another.

2.) What ISIS currently (from 2011 - present) fighting now is what the US Military Termed a 4th generation warfare. Where a war not simply involve combatent and non-combatent, but also political entity and civilian. In another word an insurgent with its own land.

3.) The inability of Iraq and Syria to puch ISIS with conventional warfare

4.) The ISIS is settling itself with conventional warfare with Iraq and Syria and unless the ISIS harm international/US interest in the area, International Organisation (UN) or US will not put boots on the ground, as with the international reaction to Syria Civil war.

5.) As long as Syrian Civil War continue to exist, this will give a breathing place (Or a breather) for ISIS to regroup and reorganisation even if Iraq push off all ISIS element within Iraq, the ISIS will simply move back to syria and regroup. Unless the international entity put an end to Syria Civil war, there are no way Syria can resist an ISIS present in its country.

6.) Iraqi Force was not trained to fight convention set piece battle, the bulk of the force was train on counter-insurgency, as with what the country gone thru in the past 9 years, they weren't train with combine warfare, and retraining takes time.

7.) ISIS battle strategy is divide and conquerer, where they bet on other country would not react when they target their secular enemy, and indeed it doesn't (A la case with PKK and Turkish, Kurd and Iraq, Iraq and Iran and Lebannon) As long as seculism exist, the ISIS would continue to bet on local enemy and use it agaisnt the host nation.

8.) US/Allies would not have stomach for another all out Iraq war, given they just withdrew 3 year prior.

9.) In the case with Iraq, the only way for IRaq to stand up tp ISIS is to disband itself (Military and government ) and present itself with all the resource to a foreign entity (US/UN) and have them control their military and country again fully, otherwise there are going to be a part of the government or Iraq would not want to participate and unless it's a hey-ho one giant push and flush the ISIS out of Iraq completely, any faction that harbour the ISIS would potential be the ground that ISIS rekindle. Think of the Sunni population in Iraq...

Hence from all the above factor presents, i concluded that ISIS would be sucessfully establishing statehoood in Iraq and Syria

Hi,

This is indeed a strange post----. ISIS can only survive if it is sponsored by the united states. Neither does it have any agriculture base---nor it has any business base----there is no banking system either----there are no weapons production facilities---it does not have medical facilities and medical supplies---.

As for heavy weapons----it has no parts production or procurement abilities---how is it going to maintain its equipment.

The bottom line is that who is supplying them with FATA where the Taliban, freedom fighters etc had stocked ammo for over 30 years.
 
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Hi,

This is indeed a strange post----. ISIS can only survive if it is sponsored by the united states. Neither does it have any agriculture base---nor it has any business base----there is no banking system either----there are no weapons production facilities---it does not have medical facilities and medical supplies---.

As for heavy weapons----it has no parts production or procurement abilities---how is it going to maintain its equipment.

The bottom line is that who is supplying them with FATA where the Taliban, freedom fighters etc had stocked ammo for over 30 years.

Why is that you think ISIS survival depended on Sponsoring by the United State? I mean i would love some conspiracy theory but what you are saying is absurd, bordering insanity.

First of all, tell me why US support ISIS? I mean what good it cone down to if US support ISIS? Nothing

Second of all, if US indeed sponsoring ISIS, why ISIS still limited in Iraq and Syria but not destroying all US eneky or Israeli enemy in the Middle East? If US is behind that, that would be nire than easy enough to push Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen and even Saudi Arabia, but instead ISIS still only maintaining ground between some part of Iraq and Syria.

And have you ever think of how people in those region live becore the materialize of ISIS, would it be quite easy to answer how they live before is how they live now?

@Horus is it the method we are debating here ? when audience already assert their opinion before we actually can have a debate? Cos if we keep answering question pike that, then there are not gonna be any meaningful debate we can do.
 
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Why is that you think ISIS survival depended on Sponsoring by the United State? I mean i would love some conspiracy theory but what you are saying is absurd, bordering insanity.

First of all, tell me why US support ISIS? I mean what good it cone down to if US support ISIS? Nothing

Second of all, if US indeed sponsoring ISIS, why ISIS still limited in Iraq and Syria but not destroying all US eneky or Israeli enemy in the Middle East? If US is behind that, that would be nire than easy enough to push Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen and even Saudi Arabia, but instead ISIS still only maintaining ground between some part of Iraq and Syria.

And have you ever think of how people in those region live becore the materialize of ISIS, would it be quite easy to answer how they live before is how they live now?

@Horus is it the method we are debating here ? when audience already assert their opinion before we actually can have a debate? Cos if we keep answering question pike that, then there are not gonna be any meaningful debate we can do.

Stop reacting as if you are guilty. Because you gave some lame reasons for the survival of ISIS---without talking about the supplies and that would only mean that you are not concerned. For isis to survive it has to have a supply line----and none can supply a nation without the permission of the united states.

You wrote a bunch of bull crap. First thing a soldier would be talking about would be the supply lines---where the supplies to the isis are coming from---who is behind it.

ISIS is no ideology---its strategy is not divide and conquer---it is all about brutality---a sickness a perversity---.
 
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Stop reacting as if you are guilty. Because you gave some lame reasons for the survival of ISIS---without talking about the supplies and that would only mean that you are not concerned. For isis to survive it has to have a supply line----and none can supply a nation without the permission of the united states.

You wrote a bunch of bull crap. First thing a soldier would be talking about would be the supply lines---where the supplies to the isis are coming from---who is behind it.

ISIS is no ideology---its strategy is not divide and conquer---it is all about brutality---a sickness a perversity---.

so the United States support ISIS because you think ISIS cannot survive without US help, thats frickin convinence

And i did talk about supply line, what happened before is what happened now, Iraq does not require US to stay afloat and ISIS, part of Iraq now, would still not need the US to survive.

But still i did not hear back from my question, so because you think it is, then it is? Who are you? Allah?

@Horus i want to know if this is the.method of this debate? If i am gonna have to make my point here and have to answer to nutcase like this? Or you are imagining this is a free for all? I thought we are to debate the issue academically not some witch hunt based on Conspiracy theory.
 
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There is no place for isis---it will be destroyed---6 months to year.

The post by the military professional was surprising---isis is no ideology---isis is all about brutality, murder, slaughter, rape, pillaging and all acts of being inhumane---and then this poster has his analysis and before it states that the post is vetted by someone only raises a red flag---that being---when so many countries are involved in working to neutralize isis---how is it going to establish a state----.

Because in real world---if you do not have the support of the U S and to some extent russia---behind you---there is no statehood for you.

I believe that the poster just got carried away in a moment of delusion. As for me being a 'nutcase'----maybe after another 15-20 years if I live that long---hehn.
 
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There is no place for isis---it will be destroyed---6 months to year.

The post by the military professional was surprising---isis is no ideology---isis is all about brutality, murder, slaughter, rape, pillaging and all acts of being inhumane---and then this poster has his analysis and before it states that the post is vetted by someone only raises a red flag---that being---when so many countries are involved in working to neutralize isis---how is it going to establish a state----.

Because in real world---if you do not have the support of the U S and to some extent russia---behind you---there is no statehood for you.

I believe that the poster just got carried away in a moment of delusion. As for me being a 'nutcase'----maybe after another 15-20 years if I live that long---hehn.

dude, do you know what is a debate? And there is a reason why you were not invited on this debate.
 
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Hi,

Todays development has been the information abut the ex wife of the isis leader under arrest in Lebanon. How she transfers money is very interesting---yesterday was a tv documentary on Al Jazeera on how isis is selling oil---how they are smuggling it thru turkey---sometimes million dollars a day. Why the factories have not been bombed!!!!

Then there was the congresswomen Sanchez a member defence committee----really upset at the govt goof up regarding isis---of govt letting it hang in the limbo. Now there is concern of isis coming into the u s---.

As I stated before----isis looked to be a setup of the united states----a U S sponsored group in Syria that went a different direction. And when it separated and started to take action on its own and started its invasion to take land----the americans sat laid back---and it convenienty happened at such a time when the americans had supposedly left.

Americans are also talking about Turkey---if it still fits into the framework of Nato anymore---I mean to say the reaction to isis has been such a clusterfcuk on all fronts----U S says it is tired f the war----Turkey says it cares less----it does not want any retaliation in its boundaries---. British, French are all cowed down----and the German----what can you say about the germans.
 
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1. It has already been established.

2. In order to fight their ideology, it is time for every body to help another Islamist group (moderate, more peaceful, and more controllable) who fight along side FSA in Syria, make them grow their controlling areas and in return it will help to suck all Jihadis into their camp which will help to decrease ISIS power and influence. Get them into the media. Egypt is also responsible creating this mess so we need Egyptian responsibility (and also Saudi). The responsibility is there because by crushing Muslim Brotherhood every where, including in Libya, Egypt (and Saudi) will make Jihadis go to famous and powerful extrimist group like ISIS due to the fact that ISIS has become the only hope for them.

3. UN and all powers must also put more money into all Syrian refuges camp (and also Palestinian refuges camp), and help them to integrate with hosting countries like Turkey, Lebanon, etc. The refugee must have good future, giving them education and integration into hosting countries society and economy. I believe IOC should have a meeting regarding this one. We should all share burden regarding Syrian refugees sufferer. It will help to cut many man power, money, goods, and weapon supply into ISIS since the frustated refugee in my opinion is the one who has a big stake in helping ISIS to grow.

4. The sort solution to eliminate ISIS is a political solution in Syria. And as Iran is responsible in prolonging the war by helping Syrian regime who was about to be defeated in the beginning of war and thus help creating ISIS indirectly by giving them a perfect situation to grow, so they have a moral obligation also to play. Iran must accept a must political solution (as offered by Syrian opposition) by taking out Bashar Al-Assad from future Syria politics. Only by taking out Bashar, Syria can have a peace future and ISIS can be easily eliminated, so I dont really understand of why this guy is so important for Iran and Hisbullah (except for ego reason) ?
 
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