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Pashtun Chiefs decry war in Pakistan

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Chiefs decry war in Pakistan

By Willis Witter
October 2, 2007


PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Pashtun tribal chiefs, who for centuries have held sway in the Hindu Kush mountain range along the border with Afghanistan, say they are being thrust into an Iraq-style war between violent Islamists and the Pakistani army.

"It's there. Bombs going off every day," said Haroon-ur-Rasheed, one of eight tribal leaders who drove for hours to the regional capital of Peshawar to speak with a reporter and photographer for The Washington Times.

The leaders described a violent tribal area in which Islamic militants routinely behead women suspected of adultery and use bombs to destroy schools for girls — so far only on Sundays, when no students are present.

Pakistani army forces who venture into the area are also being targeted with rockets, mortars and roadside bombs modeled on those being used to attack American troops in Iraq.


In the latest incident yesterday, a burqa-wearing terrorist detonated herself in the town of Bannu on the fringe of the tribal areas, killing 14. Wire agencies said it appeared to be the first instance of a female suicide bomber in Pakistan.

Shortly after President Pervez Musharraf seized power eight years ago, he won support from Islamist political parties by holding elections in which a six-party coalition — many with close ethnic and tribal ties to the Taliban — won control of the legislature of the North West Frontier Province, including its autonomous tribal zones.

"The tribes are loyal to Pakistan," insisted Mr. Rasheed, a former member of the national parliament.

"The tribal areas were used to supply the mujahideen [in Afghanistan] against the Russians," he added. "We faced everything right in front of us, the Russian army. When the fighting ended, we expected prosperity, but the Americans left and we had thousands of [Afghan] refugees."

Mr. Rasheed and his companions proposed the meeting in Peshawar on the grounds that their home territory has become so dangerous that they are unable to protect Western visitors.

Sporting tribal turbans and beards with varying streaks of gray, they all agreed that Gen. Musharraf's decision to redeploy troops to autonomous tribal zones along the Afghan border last month had thrust them into a war in which Gen. Musharraf and the Pakistani army had become proxies for President Bush and the U.S. forces.

Asked who represents the biggest threat to Islam — Osama bin Laden or the United States — one of the tribal leaders, Zarhur Afridi, said there was "no comparison."

"The U.S. doesn't need Osama. In Iraq, there was Saddam [Hussein] and he was no Osama but they attacked anyway. It's a wish of U.S. to attack Muslims," he said. "Now when we see Bush poking his head into our affairs, we don't like it."

The leaders were particularly concerned about occasional raids by U.S. forces based in Afghanistan who have pursued Taliban insurgents across the border into Pakistan. Mr. Rasheed resigned his seat in the federal parliament to protest one such raid last year.

Such raids could become even more common if former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto — who says she will return to Pakistan this month — is able to regain her post as prime minister.

"I would hope that I would be able to take Osama bin Laden myself without depending on the Americans," she said in an interview yesterday on BBC World News America. "But if I couldn't do it, of course we are fighting this war together and would seek their cooperation in eliminating him."

The tribal leaders scoffed at U.S. claims that Arab terrorists and other foreign fighters are hiding in the tribal areas. The only foreigners, they said, were fellow ethnic Pashtuns from Afghanistan.

"There never has been a full-fledged border. People are related, by blood. Members of the same family cross back and forth every day. It's been like this for centuries," said Mohammed Ameen. "The Americans see these people going back and forth and think they see the Taliban. To say they are Taliban is just as false as those chemical weapons in Iraq."

None of the leaders' arguments is likely to shake the convictions of U.S. military forces that Islamist militants have bases in Pakistan from which they train and wage war in Afghanistan, and that bin Laden is hiding in the area.

But the views of the eight tribal chiefs underscore the difficulty of the State Department's effort to implement a key goal of public diplomacy — to convince the Muslim world that the United States is not an enemy of Islam.

A year ago, the Pakistan government signed a series of truces with tribal chiefs in which government troops would withdraw and area leaders would stop militants from attacking Afghanistan. The U.S. reluctantly accepted the arrangement.

The deal unraveled in July, when Pakistani troops raided a militant mosque and adjoining madrassa in Islamabad, after months in which its students had patrolled the city as vigilante enforcers of Shariah law, kidnapping suspected prostitutes and smashing video shops.

At the same time, U.S. intelligence reports indicated that cross-border attacks on U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan had increased under the agreements.

When Gen. Musharraf redeployed troops to the tribal regions, fighting erupted almost immediately. At least 200 Pakistani soldiers were taken prisoner, at least 100 of whom remain captive.


One of the most troublesome areas is the scenic Swat Valley, once billed in tourism promotions as the "Switzerland of the East." Lately it has been taken over by extreme militants attempting to enforce the Taliban prohibition against girls attending school.

Schools throughout the valley have received threatening letters, warning students to follow strict dress codes and teachers to keep boys and girls separate.

On Sunday, a bomb struck a girl's high school in the valley and local news reports said the two-story building was destroyed.

Chiefs decry war in Pakistan - - The Washington Times, America&#39;s Newspaper


Between the Devil and the Deep Sea, these Pashtuns?

What is the situation for the beleaguered Musharraf, who means well and yet it is a no win situation?

Brave words from Benazir, but will cost votes even if it means US support and US money!

What is the end game?
 
Between the Devil and the Deep Sea, these Pashtuns?

What is the situation for the beleaguered Musharraf, who means well and yet it is a no win situation?

Brave words from Benazir, but will cost votes even if it means US support and US money!

What is the end game?

................... and the most important bit which you did not highlight at all >

"The tribes are loyal to Pakistan," insisted Mr. Rasheed, a former member of the national parliament."

I do agree with the tribal chiefs that there are no "Islamist bases" in Pakistan, since Pakistan has no interest to wage war against Afghanistan currently. Other countries would have greater interest. I don't agree with their claim there are no foreign fighters in the region. There's a problem with foreign fighters there, such as Uzbeks and Arabs, there was the recent violence to show for it.

But Musharraf is in no difficult position like you say. He only has one choice which is to clear the foreign fighters out of the region. This is for Pakistan's benefit.
 
Since Islamabad is about tgo bring back some of those draconian colonial statutes, yes the tribes are in trouble.
 
so....the tribes are pro pakistan?
thats good to hear....I was under the impression that Pakistan was breaking apart... damn news agencies and their propaganda style news reporting!!!!!!
 
The tribal people are acting up.

It is time that Musharraf and the NATO forces work out a joint effort and take them on to each other's mutual benefit.
At least 58 killed in Pakistan tribal clashes

9 hours ago

MIRANSHAH, Pakistan (AFP) — At least 58 people including 16 soldiers were killed Sunday in two major battles between militants and troops in Pakistan's restive tribal areas, the military said.

Security forces launched an attack against militant bases and hideouts in the restive North Waziristan region bordering Afghanistan, military spokesman Major General Waheed Arshad said.

He said at least 20 militants were killed in the fighting, which also left six soldiers dead and wounded another six, according to a military statement.

Local residents said four civilians also died, including three women, although the military could not confirm this.

The operation against the militants was launched in retaliation for overnight attacks Friday by extremists on two military convoys in the region that left two soldiers dead and another 30 wounded, Arshad said.

In a second battle, extremists attacked a military convoy in the Hasu Khei area of the same region, with resulting clashes killing 10 soldiers and 18 militants, Arshad later said.

President Pervez Musharraf has been under mounting pressure to tackle Al-Qaeda and Taliban militants, who US officials say have been regrouping in the tribal areas since fleeing over the Afghan border in 2001.

Musharraf, a key US ally at the centre of international efforts to combat Islamic extremism, won a landslide victory in Saturday's presidential election and pledged to continue the fight "100 percent" against terrorism.

Musharraf crushed token rivals in the vote by national and provincial parliaments that was mostly boycotted by the opposition, although the Supreme Court must hear legal challenges before the result is declared official.

Violence has escalated in the troubled region since security forces raided the Al-Qaeda-linked Red Mosque in Islamabad in July.

Nearly 300 people in Pakistan have died in attacks since the crisis, most of which have been suicide bombings. A further 250 militants have been killed in clashes with security forces since the mosque standoff, the army says.

Pro-Taliban militants are also holding more than 200 Pakistani soldiers in nearby South Waziristan district since abducting them in late August.

They shot dead three of the soldiers earlier this month to put pressure on the Musharraf government to halt military operations in the rugged region, officials said. The Pakistan military has around 90,000 soldiers fighting Al-Qaeda and Taliban rebels on the border.

A rights group Sunday accused the government of ignoring pleas for help from civilians living in the tribal areas, who are being targeted by Islamic militants.

The independent Human Rights Commission said militants in the deeply conservative region, emulating the ultra-orthodox Taliban who ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, are striving to impose a strict brand of Islam.

And the government was turning a blind eye as militants bombed girls' schools, threatened teachers and attacked shops selling videos and music deemed un-Islamic, the commission said.
AFP: At least 58 killed in Pakistan tribal clashes
 
thats good to hear....I was under the impression that Pakistan was breaking apart... damn news agencies and their propaganda style news reporting!!!!!!

i dont know from where you guys hear the news that Pakistan is breaking apart, Pakistan is created to remain forever no Tom,Dick& harry can break it apart.

Regards
Wilco
 
It's time to do away with all sorts of tribal systems and bring these people into the modern world.
 
SS,

Totally correct!

Jana,

Could you let us know as to why the tribal are shy of joining the mainstream?
 
This is war. Pakistan is facing a real test on its soverinity. The amount of soldiers killed in Pakistan after lal masjid might sound as if PA is working in hostile territory like the US in Iraq.
Is that the way actually the tribaks see PA, occupiers or foriegn army?
 
It's not a test of Pakistan's soverignty. The tribal areas have always had their own laws, their own police, their own army. Difficult to do a comparison of the soldiers like you did though.
 
This is war. Pakistan is facing a real test on its soverinity. The amount of soldiers killed in Pakistan after lal masjid might sound as if PA is working in hostile territory like the US in Iraq.?
No it does not sound like that :)
indeed the attacks have been sped up after Lal Masjid and we all know there were some anti-Pakistan elements backing the Ghazi brothers.


Is that the way actually the tribaks see PA, occupiers or foriegn army?

well not a good try Bull ;)

The tribes do not see PA as occupiers foriegn army as the no tribe in the tribal is fighting army rarher its one individual Abduallh Mehsud who is behind all these incidents. He is even not supported by his own Mehsud tribe.
I already said his role is also doubtful as he is not fighting taliban nor for the tribals, rather he is being used by foreign elements as proxy against Pakistan just like Naik Muhammad.
 
SS,

Totally correct!

Jana,

Could you let us know as to why the tribal are shy of joining the mainstream?


:) Sir let me come back after a while as my Boss is grinnign at me for glowing to the forum.
 
No it does not sound like that :)
indeed the attacks have been sped up after Lal Masjid and we all know there were some anti-Pakistan elements backing the Ghazi brothers.

Thats unbelievable!!!

In today's report 59 rebels have been killed by PA inside NWFP. 59, that's a very very large number. PA had to use helicopter gunships in this operations, artillery and fighter jets too have been used in previous cases.

This massive rebellion cant be done alone by a 'foreign party'. Commonsense is all that's' required to see the genuine rebellion against Pakistan/Punjab happening there.

Even in Kashmir (which you and others say are 200&#37; anti India, Pro Independence or Pro Pakistan) you dont witness such violence. IA never uses fighter jets / artillery / heli gunships on its own sovereign land.

By looking at the severity of violence, bloodshed, kind of weapons used by PA( jets,artillery,gunships) we can easily say NWFP needs freedom more than Kashmir.
 
Thats unbelievable!!!

In today's report 59 rebels have been killed by PA inside NWFP. 59, that's a very very large number. PA had to use helicopter gunships in this operations, artillery and fighter jets too have been used in previous cases.

This massive rebellion cant be done alone by a 'foreign party'. Commonsense is all that's' required to see the genuine rebellion against Pakistan/Punjab happening there.

Even in Kashmir (which you and others say are 200&#37; anti India, Pro Independence or Pro Pakistan) you dont witness such violence. IA never uses fighter jets / artillery / heli gunships on its own sovereign land.

By looking at the severity of violence, bloodshed, kind of weapons used by PA( jets,artillery,gunships) we can easily say NWFP needs freedom more than Kashmir.

The bloodshed and violence are occurring primarily in Waziristan, not the NWFP.

Are you stating that the terrain, culture, customs and ideology of the Kashmiris is identical to that of the Tribals and specifically the Taliban? Only if that were the case could you make the comparison of Kashmir to Waziristan.

And why oh why have Naik Mohammed, Abdullah Mehsud and Baitullah Mehsud never, even when issuing inflammatory statements to the press while articulating their demands, never mentioned "independence from Pakistan"?
 
And why oh why have Naik Mohammed, Abdullah Mehsud and Baitullah Mehsud never, even when issuing inflammatory statements to the press while articulating their demands, never mentioned "independence from Pakistan"?

Who would bother if they did?

To have your voice heard, you have to have the western media behind you. In this case, the West is fighting the rebels in Pakistan.

The current crisis in Burma is known because of the western media and western interests.

Any news on the Chechens?

No. Why? Because the West has cut a deal with Putin! Or it does not want to annoy Putin beyond a limit. And Chechens don't serve western interests!

And anyway, I think that secessionists, be they anywhere, should not be encouraged if they want their voice heard by the power of the gun.

Pakistan should crush these Taliban and AQ and this supporters in FATA, NWFP or anywhere, even though they are Zia's creations!
 
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