Parts of exploded AIM-120 AMRAAM (27 Feb) revealed

[The Eagle]

Possibility of F-16 being hit by ground fire......since, Abhinandan was in the area, he is given the kill.

One of the Indian claims right from the time of action till the end of an embarrassing day. I am sure that many seniors are in knowledge that how many options IAF explored on that day to make a logical claim but failed with all by the time given the nature of lies that needs more of lies to cover or convince a single party. There is no loss of any fighter A/C of PAF on that day let alone F-16 that even foreign sources confirmed. Can't start to write all the statements & twists by IAF for such an imaginary kill on that day because, I have been writing those all claims and posted on this forum lastly as a reminder in another thread.

 

[ziaulislam]

One of the Indian claims right from the time of action till the end of an embarrassing day. I am sure that many seniors are in knowledge that how many options IAF explored on that day to make a logical claim but failed with all by the time given the nature of lies that needs more of lies to cover or convince a single party. There is no loss of any fighter A/C of PAF on that day let alone F-16 that even foreign sources confirmed. Can't start to write all the statements & twists by IAF for such an imaginary kill on that day because, I have been writing those all claims and posted on this forum lastly as a reminder in another thread.

claiming this by hand of mig21 doesn't help, they should have fabricated a claim about a jf17 by a su30

 

[Cookie Monster]

I am not sure why senior pak pdf members (who were part of discussions) immediately after feb-27 keep quiet whenever the ground fire assumption is questioned by other pak pdf members.

This "ground fire" assumption is bought up by a senior Indian member (unfortunately, I forgot his name) few days after feb-27. Based on his messages, he appeared "closer" to IAF thinking. He mentioned that IAF thinks that either Abhinandan hit F-16 or ground fire hit F-16.

It is up to Pak pdf members to believe what they want. There is so much discussion already on this topic.

PS: I found your calling me "son" as disrespectful. Please don't do that. It left bad taste.

So the fact that Abhinandan said he was looking for a target(as in hadn't found one yet let alone shoot at something), pics of all the missiles intact on his Mig21, US journalist saying all F16s are accounted for...
...and yet IAF still ignored all that...and gave Abhinandan the kill?

Are they that clueless?

Secondly...about ground fire...which is the first time I've seen it mentioned(and yes I have read the long running threads on PDF that have been around since the events took place)...
...it sounds like a desperate attempt to now bring up ground fire...since the claim of Abhinandan shooting down an F16 has no leg to stand on anymore(as per the evidence mentioned in the first paragraph). Also if it is ground fire...I'm assuming u r implying SAM(surface to air missile here)...then that too shows IAF as clueless if they don't know if it was ground fire(and are attributing it to Abhinandan). SAM missiles are continuously provided guidance by the ground radar...a fighter jet doesn't follow a predictable path like a ballistic missile might...hence the need for constant tracking and constant guidance of the missile. If the missile finds the target(or confuses countermeasures such as chaff as the target) and detonates itself in close proximity of the target...that information is known to the personnel operating the SAM system. So in either event of hitting the actual target...or if the target is "perceived" to be hit by the radar(as in the fighter jet engages in evasive manuevers...like for example deploys countermeasures like a chaff cloud/flares and dives to start flying low in a mountainous terrain)...still the personnel operating the ground defense(let's say Spyder SAM system) would know that it was ground fire that hit the target(or so it would seem to them). So are u implicitly implying that IAF and SAM operators don't know what they are doing?

Any time Indian members here try and pull stuff from their behind...to justify IAF claims...u guys manage to make them look more and more clueless.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Please educate yourself on defense matters. You need to revist thousands of pages, watch hundreds of minutes of clips, read thousands of pages of information on history of modern air war. Your post reflects an F grade understanding of what has happened.

Your post contain no answer at all. Suggest do as you suggest others.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Only difference being that the f16 claim has been debunked while su30 claim has been given a new life by pictures of an exploded AMRAAM

That picture prove nothing.

 

[Beefeatergin]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/m.times...-awantipora-base/amp_articleshow/68724410.cms
the mki pilots Killed were counted as a road accident

 

[Jungibaaz]

Your post contain no answer at all. Suggest do as you suggest others.

If you’re looking for evidence, it should be evident to you by now, there is none publicly available at this time. Feel free to dismiss our claims as baseless, it’s no bother to us. We are satisfied with the claims alone from the PAF.

 

[Hack-Hook]

No proxy allowed here. Share the correct flag of your current location while on the forum. Can't remind you further.

Missile remained with pylon if you can understand. It will be the first time that fired to activate proximity fuse yet it remains with the pylon. Proximity switch gets activated and still..... that's in-fact the new thing or I am missing a lot on this.

Well you want my current location flag or my proxy location flag . be clear on that . if you want my current location flag then it's what you see if you want the proxy that my network use well it change

 

[jk007]

So the fact that Abhinandan said he was looking for a target(as in hadn't found one yet let alone shoot at something), pics of all the missiles intact on his Mig21, US journalist saying all F16s are accounted for...
...and yet IAF still ignored all that...and gave Abhinandan the kill?

Are they that clueless?

a) I *assume* the norm is to give the "kill" to pilot who is engaged in the skirmish, even if the opposing aircraft is bought down by ground fire.
b) Even the then IAF chief said that since Abhinandan was the only one in the area, he is given the "kill".
c) Informed members here can clarify as to who will be given "kill" when there is an engagement between 2 aircraft, but the ground fire bought down one of them.

Secondly...about ground fire...which is the first time I've seen it mentioned(and yes I have read the long running threads on PDF that have been around since the events took place)...

I guess you missed those posts that I was referring to. BTW - you are the second Pak pdfer (who claims to be reading posts for sometime) who missed those posts. @Oscar is part of that thread. @Oscar - please clarify.

...it sounds like a desperate attempt to now bring up ground fire...since the claim of Abhinandan shooting down an F16 has no leg to stand on anymore(as per the evidence mentioned in the first paragraph). Also if it is ground fire...I'm assuming u r implying SAM(surface to air missile here)...then that too shows IAF as clueless if they don't know if it was ground fire(and are attributing it to Abhinandan). SAM missiles are continuously provided guidance by the ground radar...a fighter jet doesn't follow a predictable path like a ballistic missile might...hence the need for constant tracking and constant guidance of the missile. If the missile finds the target(or confuses countermeasures such as chaff as the target) and detonates itself in close proximity of the target...that information is known to the personnel operating the SAM system. So in either event of hitting the actual target...or if the target is "perceived" to be hit by the radar(as in the fighter jet engages in evasive manuevers...like for example deploys countermeasures like a chaff cloud/flares and dives to start flying low in a mountainous terrain)...still the personnel operating the ground defense(let's say Spyder SAM system) would know that it was ground fire that hit the target(or so it would seem to them). So are u implicitly implying that IAF and SAM operators don't know what they are doing?

Any time Indian members here try and pull stuff from their behind...to justify IAF claims...u guys manage to make them look more and more clueless.

It is fine if you believe IAF is lying about F-16 kill. Actually, I am also Ok if there is no F-16 kill. Abhinandan displayed bravery + courage, which is important & enough for me. Particularly, Abhinandan is from a neighbouring state in south india (doubly proud of him).

But I worry - if IAF gave award to Abhinandan on a lie, that will be big reason for worry, as that indicates falling standards. However, I believe it is impossible in India to hide a lie, that too with the leftist media that we have.

You might disagree.

 

[SQ8]

a) I *assume* the norm is to give the "kill" to pilot who is engaged in the skirmish, even if the opposing aircraft is bought down by ground fire.
b) Even the then IAF chief said that since Abhinandan was the only one in the area, he is given the "kill".
c) Informed members here can clarify as to who will be given "kill" when there is an engagement between 2 aircraft, but the ground fire bought down one of them.



I guess you missed those posts that I was referring to. BTW - you are the second Pak pdfer (who claims to be reading posts for sometime) who missed those posts. @Oscar is part of that thread. @Oscar - please clarify.



It is fine if you believe IAF is lying about F-16 kill. Actually, I am also Ok if there is no F-16 kill. Abhinandan displayed bravery + courage, which is important & enough for me. Particularly, Abhinandan is from a neighbouring state in south india (doubly proud of him).

But I worry - if IAF gave award to Abhinandan on a lie, that will be big reason for worry, as that indicates falling standards. However, I believe it is impossible in India to hide a lie, that too with the leftist media that we have.

You might disagree.

Oblivious to what thread or content you are referring to - my narrative based on my own sources along with what @airomerix @Ark_Angel have stated is available.
JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort
There is a high probability that a Su-30 went down and eventually if it did go down the basic math of conspiracies to hide that event will have it come out within the next 3 years through a verified Indian source.
If it doesn’t come out by then, then it is will be chalked up as a claim. There are many claims between the PAF and IAF - which depending upon the honesty and openness of the airforce have been verified independently. Wikipedia is the last source for any of these but ACIG was a good site along with many non-desi authors on the subject.

Abhinandan may have been brave, but foolhardy goes along with it.
Dhanoa and the rest of IAF command is lying through their teeth because they are intimately aware as to what a fired R-73 looks like and one that burnt attached to the wing looks like; at the end of the day, when personnel from the USAF, RAF, RuAF and others have seen what we had to show and accepted our claim - the IAF comes really down the ladder of people we want to convince... like below the Senegalise Air force or something.

 

[jk007]

Oblivious to what thread or content you are referring to - my narrative based on my own sources along with what @airomerix @Ark_Angel have stated is available.

I was referring to a post by an Indian (who appeared "closer" to IAF thinking) that it is possible that F-16 might be down by ground fire.

There is a high probability that a Su-30 went down and eventually if it did go down the basic math of conspiracies to hide that event will have it come out within the next 3 years through a verified Indian source.

If it doesn’t come out by then, then it is will be chalked up as a claim.

I did not like IAF using Mirage-2000 in balakot, when SU-30 is available in large numbers. I am aware that SU-30 is primarily an air superiority fighter, but still zero SU-30 crossing border on Feb-26th (and subsequent reliance on mirage-2000) is not palatable to me.

40 year old plane vs 20 year old plane.

Part of me want you guys to shoot down couple of SU-30 (if it is indeed bad), then it will force IAF to buy more rafale + F-15 / F-35 (my favourites) + stop any thoughts about SU-57 / MIG-35.

Even Modi referred to Rafale. What are 272 SU-30s for? Assume India had 272 Rafale or 272 f-16s or 272 mirage-2000.

PS: my intention is not to troll.

 

[PakFactor]

I am not sure why senior pak pdf members (who were part of discussions) immediately after feb-27 keep quiet whenever the ground fire assumption is questioned by other pak pdf members.

This "ground fire" assumption is bought up by a senior Indian member (unfortunately, I forgot his name) few days after feb-27. Based on his messages, he appeared "closer" to IAF thinking. He mentioned that IAF thinks that either Abhinandan hit F-16 or ground fire hit F-16.

It is up to Pak pdf members to believe what they want. There is so much discussion already on this topic.

PS: I found your calling me "son" as disrespectful. Please don't do that. It left bad taste.

My apologies if it left a bad taste I will take it back.

But what I want you to remember, India Median is Bollywood on steroids, you need to look past the clutter. And most of all the random info and reports that are misleading do a dis-service to IAF and Abhinondone himself -- one to many stories concocted to see which one sticks.

 

[Beefeatergin]

a) I *assume* the norm is to give the "kill" to pilot who is engaged in the skirmish, even if the opposing aircraft is bought down by ground fire.
b) Even the then IAF chief said that since Abhinandan was the only one in the area, he is given the "kill".
c) Informed members here can clarify as to who will be given "kill" when there is an engagement between 2 aircraft, but the ground fire bought down one of them.



I guess you missed those posts that I was referring to. BTW - you are the second Pak pdfer (who claims to be reading posts for sometime) who missed those posts. @Oscar is part of that thread. @Oscar - please clarify.



It is fine if you believe IAF is lying about F-16 kill. Actually, I am also Ok if there is no F-16 kill. Abhinandan displayed bravery + courage, which is important & enough for me. Particularly, Abhinandan is from a neighbouring state in south india (doubly proud of him).

But I worry - if IAF gave award to Abhinandan on a lie, that will be big reason for worry, as that indicates falling standards. However, I believe it is impossible in India to hide a lie, that too with the leftist media that we have.

You might disagree.

India did try to ban accurate analysis of f 16 was shot down
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/india-trying-suppress-military-analysts-twitter-63282

 

[SQ8]

I was referring to a post by an Indian (who appeared "closer" to IAF thinking) that it is possible that F-16 might be down by ground fire.



I did not like IAF using Mirage-2000 in balakot, when SU-30 is available in large numbers. I am aware that SU-30 is primarily an air superiority fighter, but still zero SU-30 crossing border on Feb-26th (and subsequent reliance on mirage-2000) is not palatable to me.

40 year old plane vs 20 year old plane.

Part of me want you guys to shoot down couple of SU-30 (if it is indeed bad), then it will force IAF to buy more rafale + F-15 / F-35 (my favourites) + stop any thoughts about SU-57 / MIG-35.

Even Modi referred to Rafale. What are 272 SU-30s for? Assume India had 272 Rafale or 272 f-16s or 272 mirage-2000.

PS: my intention is not to troll.

If I could and my sources opsec would allow it, I would post a recent picture from crew chiefs of every viper that was involved in that operation sitting pretty unless one of them was the one piloted by Wg Cdr Nauman for the display.

We did something similar when it was claimed we lost a Mirage in 71 until we brought them all out , put them in a line and had the french attache go and verify by serial number.

As acerbic as it sounds, the day India starts producing honest leadership like Manekshaw again is the day I will consider Pakistan finished - currently your crop is mostly yes men or endless self fellatio types; that is reflected even in general Indian online denizens and is why even those Pakistanis who are disgusted of their own national failures and issues aren’t resigned to defeat against India.

 

[jk007]

As acerbic as it sounds, the day India starts producing honest leadership like Manekshaw again is the day I will consider Pakistan finished - currently your crop is mostly yes men or endless self fellatio types; that is reflected even in general Indian online denizens and is why even those Pakistanis who are disgusted of their own national failures and issues aren’t resigned to defeat against India.

I do not agree here.

The person sitting on top is Ajit Doval. I can't believe he allows dishonest / inefficient team anywhere near him.
You may not agree but Modi is extremely efficient + intelligent. India is an extremely complex country to govern. He is doing successfully, and meeting expectations of huge humanity.

BTW - I do not believe India can finish off Pakistan as a nation. Not happening. Indians do not want that to happen. Indians want LOC to become border. Pak is not going to get any more kashmir. India has no territory to give to satisfy Pak. That is reality. The day - Pak realises that, south asia will become peaceful.