Parts of exploded AIM-120 AMRAAM (27 Feb) revealed

[Comfortably Numb]

False claims of both governments:

F 16 shootdown
Su 30 Mki Shootdown.

But people from both countries are not ready to accept.

Only difference being that the f16 claim has been debunked while su30 claim has been given a new life by pictures of an exploded AMRAAM

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Only difference being that the f16 claim has been debunked while su30 claim has been given a new life by pictures of an exploded AMRAAM

Both...... both provided the BS and crap evidence.
Pakistani's will stand with Pak govt and Indians will stand India govt.

But actually, both are BS claims..

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Both...... both provided the BS and crap evidence.
Pakistani's will stand with Pak govt and Indians will stand India govt.

But actually, both are BS claims..

It is likely that SU 30 sustained minor damage and landed back safely and I am saying this based on the credibility that PAF enjoys compared to other services on either side. But you are right that none of the claims can be taken seriously in the absence of any evidence and which hasnt been provided by either.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

It is likely that SU 30 sustained minor damage and landed back safely and I am saying this based on the credibility that PAF enjoys compared to other services on either side. But you are right that none of the claims can be taken seriously in the absence of any evidence and which hasnt been provided by either.

This picture of wreckage though is of a missile that exploded and that could happen only in the vicinity of something that it perceived as its target. Whether or not that was a plane, we donot know.

 

[Mav3rick]

SU-30MKI kill may be debatable.

However, what is not debatable is the fact that IAF disappeared when PAF came knocking despite being on highest alert level. It is evidence enough that the MKI's were found wanting when engaged by PAF and opted to stay out of the fight. No wonder the Indian leadership resorted to the option of a SRBM strike which too had to be averted in favour of tears on non-availability of Rafale!

 

[Daghalodi]

yes false till no concrete evidence.

Than what is this BS your airforce is coming up you stupid troll

 

[The Eagle]

my current location is always the same , the use of proxy , well for many sites I use proxies and don't disable it when i post here . also the tail can stay intact after the proximity switch go off ad it is in the middle part of missile

No proxy allowed here. Share the correct flag of your current location while on the forum. Can't remind you further.

Missile remained with pylon if you can understand. It will be the first time that fired to activate proximity fuse yet it remains with the pylon. Proximity switch gets activated and still..... that's in-fact the new thing or I am missing a lot on this.

 

[The Eagle]

My Contibution to this thread:

RIP to Doosara Banda. Hope his courage and valor will be recognised if shooting of any of the plane Su30 or F16 happened during that fateful day.

Let's all pray for him.

That point was cleared on the same day by DG ISPR officially but seems like it is hard for you to read that and not to troll here again & again.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

False claims of both governments:

F 16 shootdown
Su 30 Mki Shootdown.

But people from both countries are not ready to accept.

Please don't conflate the two issues. Conspiracy theories cannot be conflated with reality. Many have tried but without any success.

 

[glycogen]

Don't you see that the motor is still intact with pylon and that burnt piece is still visible. Have a closer look my friend. That will be a whole new set of science that proximity switch activates even the missile is still hanging with pylon and wasn't fired at all.

By the way, what's that with use of proxy/vpn for false flag? Well, it will be better to share correct flag of your current location.

Regarding the r73, normally in fighter aircraft if you dont hold down pickle for about two seconds, it messes up the weapon pylon, causing a failure and not being able to be launched from the pylon. Again there could be many reasons to why the r73 malfunctioned, but this theory is based on modern aircraft weapon systems knowledge

 

[The Eagle]

Regarding the r73, normally in fighter aircraft if you dont hold down pickle for about two seconds, it messes up the weapon pylon, causing a failure and not being able to be launched from the pylon. Again there could be many reasons to why the r73 malfunctioned, but this theory is based on modern aircraft weapon systems knowledge

As per the account by officer himself; he wasn't able to fire anything which led the discussion to such point let alone if he could have tried to shoot or lob missile at all.

 

[glycogen]

This is a classic case of 'chopping own feet' in the quest for face saving. The timing of f-16.net cry and this is interesting nonetheless. However, for those who view these matters from a purely critical and technical standpoint. Some facts remain to be analyzed. And the onus is on IAF once again. Many of these facts and technicalities have been mentioned earlier by many members here. But nonetheless, many of our Indian friends need to be educated time and time again. Just for fun for the most part.

AMRAAM is 3.6 meters in length and weighs over 150 kg on launch. The picture released does not even account for 20% by volume, and 10% by weight. The structure of the missile clearly depicts detonation. This means, the missile was in close proximity of the target when the slugs were released. Those tiny metal pieces are in fact slugs and remains of the missile's outer sheet.

View attachment 662010

The argument by our dear neighbors is based on the following narrative. And there are massive problems and contradictions with it that does not settle well, even with someone with a mediocre knowledge set when it comes to this subject.

1) AMRAAM missed the target and hit the house

Had the missile 'missed' its target. It would not have detonated. Missiles have protocols to follow, and AMRAAM is a $500,000 missile that is programmed on millions of lines of code. It will not detonate on a 'house' or target an old man, once its own radar finds itself without a target or propellant. The system shuts down and the missile falls down either like a brick or at an angle.

Either way, the missile should be found in a 'solid form' that will be either 'bent' or 'broken'. When I say broken, I refer to Mig 21's missiles that were missing tips and nozzles initially.

2) The missile hits the chaff.

This is the most civilian (read: Hollywood) concept out there. In today's era, chaff and flares are the least effective methods to counter incoming missiles. There is a reason why new systems such as MAWS, laser jamming and electronic attack pods are increasingly gaining popularity.

Having said that, deployment of chaff would only blossom a cloud of aluminum foils that would dissuade the guidance system of AMRAAM, ultimately (in best case scenario, also highly unlikely) making the AMRAAM miss the aircraft and go straight. Even in this case, the key point is that missile does not 'hit' the chaff. Since chaff is merely composed of thousands of small metal pieces that is rapidly falling down. An AMRAAM homing in at Mach 4+ will never catch a rapidly dissipating tiny metal pieces at high altitudes. The missile simply misses the aircraft, runs out of propellant, and goes to situation #1.

Lastly, the effectiveness of chaff has been highly unreliable due to factors such as its echo area (the way metal pieces separate themselves), the material used, fall rate, bloom time, and polarisation. Especially when compared with modern missiles such as AMRAAM. And mind you, C5 is a fire and forget version. Hence, this Chaff theory is laughable.

3) The missile self destructs

It was the Q4 of 2006, when Raytheon actually concluded testing of a capability called 'command destruct/self destruct) technology for AMRAAMs. That particular software update was destined for C7 versions (the most modern of that time).

Pakistan placed an order for 500 C5's around the same time. Hence it is highly unlikely, Pakistani AMRAAM versions will retain the capability that was still under testing around that time. Even if it did, CD/SD capability is controlled by the pilot or WSO. And there is no reason why Hassan Siddique would self destruct the missile himself. And there is no such thing as an auto self destruct.

4) The lack of sense/contradiction in Indian narrative

i) Indians have consistently failed to produce 4-5 AMRAAMs as they claimed. In fact, they have only produced 0.1 of the AMRAAM, for all the right reasons.
ii) Indians are saying that AMRAAMs have hit the chaff and exploded. Hence the pieces. A lofting AMRAAM detonating in the sky cannot be found in weeks. Let alone, a day.
iii) Indians claim the AMRAAM hit the house and detonated.


I would ignore your opening statement. As it's a plain sobbing with zero substance. However, Alan Warnes covers over 60 airforces. He would be kicked out from AFM, a highly reputed magazine, had he claimed anything unreasonable. You're just angry.



Unimportant information that has nothing to do with reality. Americans have shown proofs because they invaded those countries and they had satellites on their side. Genius.



HUD does not tell anything except a missile release and its bearings. No wonder you're the spokesperson of Teja.



Highly classified data. We don't make MS paint drawings in AHQ Islamabad, unlike AHQ Delhi.

Americans have it. Along with an MKI kill mark on the recent F-16V presentation to Slovakia.



Good point. But far from conclusive.

Killed in car crash in March. Google is your best friend.

These are intricate details that are always not available. PAF wouldnt know. Neither would Americans. Its a large fleet with 250+ jets. What do you expect?



A hanger in the Srinagar base.



You're repeating the earlier point just for the sake of the length of your post.



The old man from the interview said it all. Listen to him instead of BS Dhanoa.


Does not mean, no loss



Does not mean no loss.

Listen to the old man.


Acknowledgment from India. A country that claimed a bison downed a viper without firing a missile.




To understand basic physics you need to have basic common sense. Contact or proximity did lead to slugs getting insertion in the aircraft




He is not neutral because he did not buy Indian BS. Christian Fair also not neutral. Only BS Dhanao is neutral. Lol.



2 AMRAAMs were fired at two aircraft. Rest is history.



Please educate yourself on defense matters. You need to revist thousands of pages, watch hundreds of minutes of clips, read thousands of pages of information on history of modern air war. Your post reflects an F grade understanding of what has happened.



This is classified information.

@Horus @Dubious @AgNoStiC MuSliM @araz @airomerix @Arsalan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @BHarwana @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Foxtrot Alpha @ghazi52 @Hodor @Irfan Baloch @Imran Khan @Jango @Raider 21 @krash @LeGenD @Moonlight @Side-Winder @SQ8 @waz @Windjammer @dbc @Aamir Hussain @The Eagle @WebMaster

@Adam_Khan @Ahmet Pasha @Akh1112 @aliyusuf @Areesh @ARMalik @assasiner @Blacklight @crankthatskunk @Cookie Monster@Counter-Errorist @Dalit @DESERT FIGHTER @Dil Pakistan @Falcon26 @Flight of falcon @FuturePAF @graphican @GriffinsRule@Gryphon @GumNaam @Haris Ali2140 @HRK @Hakikat ve Hikmet @HawkEye27 @I S I @JamD @Khanivore @khansaheeb@khanasifm @Liquidmetal @loanranger @masterchief_mirza @Maxpane @Mirage Battle Commander @Microsoft @mingle @Mrc@mshan44 @Muhammad Omar @NA71 @Nasr @notorious_eagle @Pakistani Fighter @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakShaheen79@PanzerKiel @Path-Finder @PDFChamp @PWFI @Rafi @Reichsmarschall @Riz @SABRE @Safriz @Shane @Signalian @Starlord@Stealth @StormBreaker @The Accountant @TheTallGuy @Tank131 @Thorough Pro @TOPGUN @Tipu7 @Tps43 @TsAr @Trango Towers @Ultima Thule @undercover JIX @Viper27 @Vortex @Verve @Zarvan @ziaulislam @Zulfiqar
My

hommies @PakSword @Super Falcon @Sabretooth @PradoTLC @khail007 @War Thunder @ZedZeeshan @Crystal-Clear

Wait what is the MKI kill mark on the f-16V an actual thing? Is there a way I can get some link?

 

[glycogen]

As per the account by officer himself; he wasn't able to fire anything which led the discussion to such point let alone if he could have tried to shoot or lob missile at all.

yep makes sense

 

[danger007]

After multiple neutral third parties have concluded that an F16 downed a SU30 last year. IAF's troll army has to come out to spit any non sense to counter. Its hilarious.

Well can you please share details and your sources??.. there is no concrete evidence...

 

[danger007]

We have the following information, but it is upto PAF to release it.

1. Launch parameters of AIM 120C being met, Fox 3 launch.
2. SU-30 Pilot announcing a lock on and taking evasive maneuvers, on RT.
3. Video of Blip of SU-30 disappearing from Radar.
4. Confirmation of "Hit" by the AMRAAM recorded by the onboard computer on the F-16.
5. Frantic calls on RT by the wingman and ground controller unanswered and subsequent exit by the wingman alone.

I don't know if we have visual confirmation and images of the downed SU-30 but this is proof enough that something happened to that SU-30.

Can you post the video?