What's new

Parsis and Hindutva's Ethnic Nationalism in India

Status
Not open for further replies.
No I am not Muslim...I am more in the tradition of @Indus Pakistan ...Atheist,red pilled and culturally Hindu (he being culturally Muslim)...But I take a lot of interest in Islamic history, especially the first 100 years and its brilliant military commanders in that time period

i am not really allowed to discuss religion here. so i will just say read the Quran at least once in your life. you are open minded, you at least listen to us (and vice versa) unlike the other indians here.
 
. .
@padamchen logged in into an Indian defence forum, told that he was a Parsi, was warmly welcomed by "Hindu nationalists". Despite humble responses, he kept on making it unnecessarily Hindu vs Parsis and was banned way later.
'The World's Best Minority': Parsis and Hindutva's ethnic nationalism in India
Jesse Buck
This putrid article by this uneducated author itself is a load ignorant and unknown rant. Indeed before writing such useless loads, he needs to learn that Hindu nationalism is not a religious or ethnic nationalism. At the time this term was coined, "Hindu" was synonym for "Indian" eventually all Indian religions such as Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism and Indian atheism. Indian National Congress and other Gandhian allies who were in favour of peaceful protests were labeled as "Indian nationalists" while actual "Indian nationalists" were called "Hindu" nationalists because they didn't like a foreign term "Indian".
There is an assumption that nationalist movements which are constituted by an ethnic majority are hostile towards all minorities, so how does one account for such a movement's affection for one minority and hostility for another?
Hindu nationalism is not an ethnic movement. What matters is caste based discrimination but racism based upon ethnicity or color etc. is seen as stupid in even India's remotest villages.
In this paper I explore this question using the case study of a Hindu nationalist movement in India called Hindutva which simultaneously expresses hostility towards Muslims and affection for another minority known as the Parsis.
Hindu nationalists also have very very high affinity with Jews and are even indifferent to Sikhs, Jains and Budhhists. Hindus, Jains and Sikhs often worship in, donate large amounts of money and organise bhandaras and langars in each others' temples and Gurudwaras. They marrying among each others' communities is common (my bhabhi is Sikh and my sister is married to a Jain businessman). I'm not a special case. This is a usual landscape of any average "Hindu mohalla", the social fabric among Indian religions which doesn't need a certificate from Freedom House, Democracy Index or any western think tank to prove its tolerance. I myself go to a Gurudwara every morning.

During 1984 anti Sikh riots when Indian "liberals" were on rampage to burn Sikhs alive throughout Punjab, "Hindu nationalist" politicians and RSS cadres hid Sikhs in their homes, resorts and branches and many were even killed in these attempts. Even after the Republic Day incident, these are BJP leaders themselves and not Congressis campaigning, "Don't hate Sikhs. They are one of us and those rioting in turban garb are from " that community"".

Even Muslims today would have been enjoying same status as Parsis and Jews if 1920s riots and Malabar massacre wouldn't have happened, Indian Muslim leaders would have been focused on India's independence in WW1 and not Turkey's khalifa, if India was not partitioned. They would even could have better image after independence yet if they didn't act stupid like Pakistani Muslims and pretend to be Arabs and Turks and supporting foreign countries instead of their own for the sake of "Islamic brotherhood". Muslims often win elections in Hindu majority areas but vice versa isn't true. Muslims live in ghettos and concentrated areas while other communities live mixed up.

They still can turn their image if they start to bother more about accepting and getting accepted in India's social fabric, coming out of ghettos and make houses near other communities, teaching same secular values which any urban family does.

My own parents taught me to be secular, my Muslim friends turned me critical of them.
I argue in societies that imagine themselves as plural there is a type of nationalist thought premised upon the existence of both exemplary and threatening minorities.
In plural societies from US to India, they accuse majority of intimidating them.

In pro "homogeneous" societies like Russia, China and old Japan, racial and religious minorities were and still are systemically killed. They rather justify it with a stupid argument, "it is difficult to maintain a diverse society, so majoru dominance has to be maintained" and same experts writing "is India an illiberal democracy" rather portray this Nazi style racist bullshit as a progressive thought.
Hindutva is highly influential in India. It is comprised of a section of largely upper caste Hindus and is distinct from the religion of Hinduism (Jaffrelot 1993).
Upper caste majority is an 80s and 90s thing. BJP has 20 crore members, more than half of them, majority of BJP leaders belong to lower castes.
Upper caste was voter of Indian National Congress while lower castes in India voted for other left parties. BJP brought politics on Hindu cause which took away voters from both groups and made BJP a dominant party.

Railway minister Piyush Goyal and Home Minister Amit Shah are Vaishya (Baniya), Defence Minister Rajnath Singh is a Kshatriya, Late Foreign minister Sushma Swaraj was a Brahmin, Prime Minister Narendra Modi is an OBC (Backward Caste), President Ramnath Kovind is a scheduled caste (lowest among India's all backward castes).
The combo is sufficient to reflect whether BJP is an upper-caste party or a pan-Hindu party.
Buddhism is currently seen as the middle stepping stone to Islam (or to an extent Christianity).
Budhhism is a peaceful cult version of liberal atheistic sects of Hinduism.
Islam and Christianity are directly opposite radical cults which regard anyone who don't believe in them as sinners.
Interestingly, only they as minorities or majorities have problem in India as well as rest of world, not any other community.
Savarkar's hostility to Muslims was inversely matched by his affection for Parsis
Case also lied with other RSS leaders like Golwalker, Deendayal Upadhyay.
"A narrow religion, a sectarian religion, an exclusive religion can live only for a limited time and a limited purpose."

Altogether, India is indeed a liberal democracy where right wing was about cultural nationalism and facilitated reforms in economics too. They weren't conservative, themselves pushed anti religious laws, they came in 90s and built India's industrial base what actually built India's economy in 21st century. Even in past, not government but these organisations public funded and created "institutions" of India which liberals love to boast about (it's a fact that government denied funds). Their only problem is Muslims because of stigma of partition. No amount of defamation is going to play them down. India isn't a western country and left right political thingo is irrelevant here.
Mine is the present day street view of the bhim sena boudh dalit converts and their numbers being eaten into by proselytizing faiths, under the radar of the Hindu watch.
That isn't Budhhism, that is a pathetic confused cartoon religion without an iota of Gauthama and gets thrown away and ridiculed by real Buddhists a lot.
 
Last edited:
.
but, neutral venues can become home venues as the decades roll by due to birth rates, migration and conversion. and then...
I dont care what happens outside our shores.
In India, at the same rate, it will take centuries before Muslims can possibly be in majority.
You're occupying millions in J&K - India, Pakistan and the UN committed to resolve the J&K dispute via plebiscite.

Those people and that land is not Indian.
You can say whatever you want. Kashmir belongs to India and the world knows that. They just want us to explain that to you calmly. No one will help you on that.
As I said Islam is the only organized religion of any relevance and importance on the face of the Earth today..It still has a strong,vibrant,coservative core...the other religions bent over backwards to accomodate liberal feminism, promiscuity, pre-marital/extra martial sex and have lost all vitality...but the problem of liberal feminism/promiscuity has swept through Islamic countries such as Turkey as well ....and gender segregation is being removed in many Islamic societies..the strength of Sharia is being gutted..in KSA, women are joining the armed forces...you know what happens if men and women share barracks (which is eventually bound to happen)...I think only Islam has the strength to repel these forces of sexual immorality, but till now the global Muslim community has just accomodated to West's relentless pressure of societal change
you are mixing issues here. Some things like greater female participation in workforce / armed forces are good, and others such as increasing promiscuity, extra martial affairs are bad (for both sexes). You are clubbing good things with bad.
 
Last edited:
.
In India, at the same rate, it will take centuries before Muslims can possibly be in majority.

sure, it will take a few centuries. but the % of indians that are muslim is growing fast, and hindus % is dropping. then either hindutva forces the balkanisation of india, or the hindus just leave indian muslims alone and eventually muslims will become the majority. if by then Kashmir is still with India, maybe then Kashmir will accept India, but by then India would have finally been made into the Islamic Republic of India. then we can also tear down the ram mandir in Ayodhya and rebuild the Babri Masjid.

Untitled.png

@padamchen logged in into an Indian defence forum, told that he was a Parsi, was warmly welcomed by "Hindu nationalists". Despite humble responses, he kept on making it unnecessarily Hindu vs Parsis and was banned way later.

if even his fellow indians (ideologically and ethnically) cant tolerate him then i dont know why PDF does. anyways, all these parsis are fake aryans. their bloodlines are purely indian now after centuries of marrying nothing but indians.
 
.
sure, it will take a few centuries. but the % of indians that are muslim is growing fast, and hindus % is dropping. then either hindutva forces the balkanisation of india, or the hindus just leave indian muslims alone and eventually muslims will become the majority. if by then Kashmir is still with India, maybe then Kashmir will accept India, but by then India would have finally been made into the Islamic Republic of India. then we can also tear down the ram mandir in Ayodhya and rebuild the Babri Masjid.

View attachment 722979
Linear projection of above is a very simplistic view. Most educated & upper class Muslims migrated to Pak in 1947. The muslims left in India were generally poor. Poor and less educated people have more children irrespective of religion. With increasing education, fertility rate is going down for Muslims as well. So this percentage will not increase at such rate now.

On a side note, this increase clearly negates the Pak propaganda of Muslim genocide in India. Can you show the trend of Hindu percentage in Pak since 1947 ? That would lay bare the protection of minorities in Pak.

if even his fellow indians (ideologically and ethnically) cant tolerate him then i dont know why PDF does. anyways, all these parsis are fake aryans. their bloodlines are purely indian now after centuries of marrying nothing but indians.
Parsis are some of the strictest in terms of bloodlines. They generally frown upon Parsis marrying non-Parsis.
 
. .
Linear projection of above is a very simplistic view. Most educated & upper class Muslims migrated to Pak in 1947. The muslims left in India were generally poor. Poor and less educated people have more children irrespective of religion. With increasing education, fertility rate is going down for Muslims as well. So this percentage will not increase at such rate now.

lol, now who is taking the simplistic view.

On a side note, this increase clearly negates the Pak propaganda of Muslim genocide in India.

no it doesnt. we never said muslim population of india is declining. we said muslims are targeted and told what they can/cant practice of their faith directly by the government. hindus in Pakistan have no such restrictions. we have debated this many times and you have never found a single law in Pakistan to prove that we dont let hindus practice this or that of their faith. whereas i can point out many laws in India where muslims arent allowed to do this or that even inside their homes.

Can you show the trend of Hindu percentage in Pak since 1947 ? That would lay bare the protection of minorities in Pak.

after reading the stats in the article below, you should lay bare and parade your shamelessness for the world to see. saara muhalla dekhe ga. you a serial liar. tu bachpan se jhoota tha, aik number ka dhokebaaz.




after reading the figures, since Pakistan's hindu population % is increasing, whereas India's hindu population % is dropping, does that mean India is doing a bigger genocide on the hindus than Pakistan? lol

again, i repeat, name me one law where hindus in Pakistan arent allowed to practice their religion. in India there are many laws where muslims arent allowed to practice fully.

Parsis are some of the strictest in terms of bloodlines. They generally frown upon Parsis marrying non-Parsis.

these parsis love telling porkies. do many of them even look Aryan? do the people in the pic below look Aryan?

parsi_wedding_rituals4.jpg
 
. . . .
lol, now who is taking the simplistic view.

no it doesnt. we never said muslim population of india is declining. we said muslims are targeted and told what they can/cant practice of their faith directly by the government. hindus in Pakistan have no such restrictions. we have debated this many times and you have never found a single law in Pakistan to prove that we dont let hindus practice this or that of their faith. whereas i can point out many laws in India where muslims arent allowed to do this or that even inside their homes.

after reading the stats in the article below, you should lay bare and parade your shamelessness for the world to see. saara muhalla dekhe ga. you a serial liar. tu bachpan se jhoota tha, aik number ka dhokebaaz.




after reading the figures, since Pakistan's hindu population % is increasing, whereas India's hindu population % is dropping, does that mean India is doing a bigger genocide on the hindus than Pakistan? lol

again, i repeat, name me one law where hindus in Pakistan arent allowed to practice their religion. in India there are many laws where muslims arent allowed to practice fully.
Apart from the very dangerous blasphemy law (which gets arbitrarily applied by people for personal vengence), there may not be any other apparent law.
But clearly, we see scores of Hindus migrating to India but not any Muslims running over to Pak (Infact, couple of famous Pak muslims came here). Are you saying that it is only because of better economic scenario of India?

The 2nd link also shows the steep fall in Hindu percentage in East Pak from 1950 to 1970. Would you (Pakistan) take no responsibility for it.

these parsis love telling porkies. do many of them even look Aryan? do the people in the pic below look Aryan?
Parsis were from Iran. Features of Iranians are not too different from North Indian / Pakistanis.
 
.
Apart from the very dangerous blasphemy law (which gets arbitrarily applied by people for personal vengence), there may not be any other apparent law.

this is called running away from the debate. you said the hindu population was going down in Pakistan, but it clearly isnt. its actually going up, in numbers and %. you got a comment on that, bit*h? or are you going to take jabs, get confronted with facts and then do a runner like always?

but we can talk about the blasphemy laws after we settle earlier points.

But clearly, we see scores of Hindus migrating to India

we also clearly see many of them coming back to Pakistan. we just dont scream from the rooftops about it. our media game isnt as good as india.

but not any Muslims running over to Pak

bullshit. i know many that have. easy for me since i myself come from the muhajir community.

(Infact, couple of famous Pak muslims came here). Are you saying that it is only because of better economic scenario of India?

obviously. i cant think of one famous practicing muslim out of those that left Pakistan for India. they were muslim in name only. they would swap india for any other country if they could get more money there.

The 2nd link also shows the steep fall in Hindu percentage in East Pak from 1950 to 1970. Would you (Pakistan) take no responsibility for it.

we can get back to it after we settle earlier points. i am not going to let you keep shifting goalposts like you always do.
Come on Persians are not white

they sort of do. but they definitely dont look like parsis, because most of them look indian.
 
.
The biggest problem Islam has liberal promiscuity/liberal feminism that the West is trying to pump in...(Iran has already fallen to it)..I donot know how Islam plans to win that battle...cuz without strict segregation of the sexes as espoused in Islam, it is very easy for sexually libertine philosophies to take hold in Muslim societies

Islam can crush feminism easy,that is not the threat.Feminism is a mortal threat to western civilization on the other hand due to affecting their demographics.Iran will be non-muslim/atheist in 1-2 generations -the young generation hate it.But other than that no major defections.

Islam has 3 big problems-
Poor industrialization levels.
Inability to produce scientific knowledge because madrasa system cant do it.Islam is a belief system that demands submission and conformity,scientific enquiry requires the opposite,as long as mullahs have any say in society its not going to happen.Muslim societies will remain scientifically backward .
3rd reason is tied to above two without industry and science muslim military strength is hopeless.Historically they depended upon cavalry armies which dont require scientific achievement to master.That is gone.Numbers without money and tech are irrelevant,they cant even overwhelm israel.

There are 2 additional factors -
Climate change,the muslim world is situated bang centre the arid zone of the world with limited water supplies.They will take the brunt of climate change,it will be devastating for the middle east.With coming end of oil,they may not have the capital to fix it.

If the muslims of the west - europe in particular cant assimilate they will face a 2nd holocaust in the next 2-3 decades.If the europeans face an existential crisis it wont take them much long to bring out a 2nd hitler.This will also happen if there is a recession and scapegoats are needed.A right wing party comes to power,you think they will tolerate grooming gangs,knifings etc and stuff..no way,it will be state sponsored pogroms.Sad part is all non whites may get caught up in the tragedy which europeans themselves caused by inviting mass migration .

Muslim world also lacks unity with no central powerful state.Turkey has ambition but is dependant on europe for economic survival.Also lacks the manpower,technology level and size.
 
. .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom