Parallels between Turkish attempt at COUP and Egypt

[BATMAN]

only parallel in both cases is mourning in Iranian camp.

Did any one else noticed? or is it only me?

 

[pkuser2k12]

Democracy without a constitution that guarantee and protect human rights, freedom, and equality is like putting a sheep with with four wolves in one room and taking votes which one should be eaten. I don't expect islamists to understand that, since they have no respect whatsoever to human rights, women rights, and freedom of expression and belief, but you know what guys ?!! We need to move forward, and you guys need to catch up; its up to you.

....PUMPKINS AND FLOWERS world knows so called human rights records of the west .

human rights in west is only to record it in constitution they can terminate them any time for their own people or for the world

 

[agentny17]

dont BS you jerk whole world knows so called human rights records of the west .

human rights in west is only to record it in constitution they can terminate them any time for their own people or for the world

No .

 

[pkuser2k12]

No .

yes

agentny17 ask agent snowden

 

[tesla]

egypt's problem is in sight democracy but it seems more economy from backstage

 

[Pandora]

In a country where 50% of the people dont know the meaning of democracy you cant win in a democratic way.
You can still ''buy'' votes,if the father votes a way the whole familly votes that way,people vote the way the village elder votes.
All these people make allmost 50% of the population,they just dont know better.
Now you tell me,how you gonna win the election?
Btw,the opposition is devided and no real leader.

Well there is other 50% too which can make a difference. To be honest from an outside observer Erdogan has been doing a great job so just in case if you don't want him then send him packing to pakistan

 

[T-123456]

Well there is other 50% too which can make a difference. To be honest from an outside observer Erdogan has been doing a great job so just in case if you don't want him then send him packing to pakistan

As i posted,the other 50% is devided,no real opposition leader to bring them all together.
He has done a great job for the economy,but failure in foreighn affairs,inner politics(devided turkey in pro and contra instead of unity)freedom of speech expresion(limited all democratic freedoms).
You can have him(he would be a perfect leader for Pakistan).

 

[Lure]

How is Erdogan trying to change Turkiye into an Islamic Republic? Just because he passed a law that says women can wear hijabs to universities and other public places?

I toured through Turkiye. I slept on beaches and hitchhiked my way from Sinop to Istanbul. I saw many women outside of the cities wearing hijabs proudly.

Honest Question. How is Erdogon changing Turkiye into an Islamic Republic? Just because he's bringing some Political Islam into Turkiye? Honest Question.

Ok.. Let's make our facts straight shall we?

Every constitution is an agreement between the civil society and the government. It's simply the definition of the rights of the civil society and the limits of the authority of the government. If the government declares a secular regime in it's constitution (and it does) the government declares that they will not form a way of management with ideas/motivations based on religion. It gives responsibilites to all three brances of the government i.e cabinet, parliament and judiciary.

Parliament -> Parliaments can take measures about freedom of will this doesn't contradict with secularism however cabinets can't pass laws with religious motivations. Examples ;

- Every citizens right to worship is protected by the state. (Protects freedom of will doesn't contradict with secularism)

- It's forbidden to wear mini skirts for women. (Contradicts with secularism since this law has religious motivations)

Now what AKP does in parliament is they create laws with religious motivations but they try to defend this laws with secular arguments. Examples,

- The abortion/caeserean issue. Everyone knew all conservatives around the World supports anti-abortion and anti-caeserean causes with religious motivations. But a portion of society comes and says "I don't believe in any religion or it's ok for my religion (deisim/ new age etc.) or I'm not that religious so I'm ok with commiting sins" etc. Therefore you need to support this with secular arguments like "Right to live". Like the conservatives in the US, AKP in Turkey supported this with the same arguments and passed a law which simply makes abortion nearly impossible (you can do it until the 4th week of the pregnancy). Erdoğan stated that "Abortion is a murder, and that should be punished like it". Also the same law stated that "the doctors has every right to reject the abortion even if it's in legal period" and the caeserean type of birth is forbidden for the mothers without any birth complications. Thank God there was a strong public reaction and a very strong reaction from WHO hence they changed the pregnancy period to 10 weeks for abortion but the rest simply didn't change. This law is purely based on religion.

Since the US is not a secular country it's ok for them and their people to have such discussions but since Turkey is we shouldn't have.

Cabinets -> Cabinets can't create policies based on religious motivations. They should be very open about their appointments.

For example,
- if you claim to be a secular country than you can't form religious alliances with other countries in your international policies. No one can think that AKP and MB are forming an alliance with pragmatic motivations. It's evident that Turkish international policy is based on religion and it's secterian. Otherwise it should have withdrawn it's support from MB like everyone else did.

- Alcohol prices and the taxes on alcohol in Turkey steadily increased with AKP management. In alcohol consumption we might be in top spots among the muslim majority countries (1,5 liters of pure alcohol per year) but if we are compared with Europe (10 liters of pure alcohol per year) we are far behind which shows that you can't generate a good income by taxing the alcohol. Thus this kind of approach is an evidence of a cabinet policy based on religion.

- And for the appointment case. There are very strong reports in Turkish media that AKP cabinet makes the state appointments based on religios groups. Like if you are a member of some religious orders you can easily get appointed for the public jobs.

- There was a filing scandal a couple of months ago. It turns out that Erdoğan uses the Turkish Intelligence to create files on businessmen in Turkey files everything about their lifestyle and religious beliefs and that files has very strong influence on AKP when they are giving some government tenders to some businessmen.

Judiciery -> Judiciery can't make interpretations of laws based on religious motivations. It should use the universal truths and ethics in their interpretations rather than local religious beliefs.

AKP also made it's way in the judiciary and some of the judges and most of the prosecuting attornies are right now violating secularism. Example,

- Fazıl Say (an open atheist Turkish composer) shared a thousand year old poem from Ömer Hayyam (an Iranian mathematician) this poem was;

You say there will be wine flowing from the rivers of Heaven
Is the Heaven a bistro?
You say there will be two houris for a believer
Is the Heaven a pimphouse?

Than for sharing this poem Fazıl Say was sentenced to 6 months of prison because of "leading on the people to violance". What kind of an interpretation gave such a result? Of course an interpretation based on religion.

So.. Don't expect an overnight change of Roman Law to Sheria Law. And don't expect absurd laws like "banning alcohol" or "forcing women to wear hijab". If such things occurs, there are millions of Turks/Kurds who will very happily give their lives in a civil war to protect their secular regime. It's just that some of the remark of AKP makes people think that AKP will lead Turkey to an Islamist Nation and people wanted to show AKP what would happen if that goes in that direction.

 

[Safriz]

^^ Then why elect him over and over again?

If he was voted in,its evidence enough that majority of Turks like what he is doing...

 

[damm1t]

Then what's with the alcohol ban?

Then what's with non-muslim countries with the alcohol ban?

 

[flamer84]

"SUCKULARISM AND ZIONIST MASTERS! STUPID ANTI ISLAMIC CLOSED MINDED IDIOTS!"

The irony is overwhelming. Can you stop posting here please?

Edit: Just saw this little gem



So...I doubt you will heed my request of not posting any further. How would you like to discuss the mean literacy rates, quality of life and social welfare in these fabulous Islam-run countries?
And Im not talking about dirty oil money going to one family.

Lol,and a what a "gem" it is...I'm quite shocked to see how many people fail to see that Europe under the church rule in medieval times was quite similar to islamic ruled countries nowadays,the same absurd rules,persecution of minorities and corrupted religious fervor.As another poster said in here there's nothing wrong in beeing a religious person,i myself am a practicant christian but religion can't run a state,a man or political party can't speak for God,as history has shown us multiple times man will always abuse absolute power and when you rule in the name of religion you rule with absolute power.

 

[Safriz]

Their point is you can do whatever you want but the motivation mustn't be religious values.

In a country legally declared secular.....no religious laws should be imposed...true.
But judging the motive behind a law is anybody's guess and conclusions shouldnt be reaced based on paranoia..
Erdogan never said his laws are based on religion or did he?

 

[-SINAN-]

In a country legally declared secular.....no religious laws should be imposed...true.
But judging the motive behind a law is anybody's guess and conclusions shouldnt be reaced based on paranoia..
Erdogan never said his laws are based on religion or did he?

Yes he recently never said that he acts based on religion. But his actions are.

And yes he is anti-secular.

 

[T-123456]

Yes he recently never said that he acts based on religion. But his actions are.

And yes he is anti-secular.

Erdogan is quiet these days,i wonder why.
Maybe his islamisation of the country didnt work as planned,btw bro im drinking raki you want one to or beer?

 

[Safriz]

And we were all trying to impresse you,we will try harder.
You are so unimpressed that you hang out in theTurkish section evry day.
Btw do you want a beer?

Your attempts to bait me into a religious discussion will fail...