Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[El Sidd]

tamaam ayeeni hathkande azmanay kay baad ye baat sabit hui kay maujood nizaam kisi qism ka ehtesaab dene se qaasir hai.......

ab is nizaam e hukoomat ki bisaat lapaitne ka waqt achuka hai........ agar ye kaam Pakistani khud karlen to karlen warna koi or karne kay liye tayyar betha hai

faisla abhi bhi Pakistan kay paas hai per waqt kam baki Allah ki marzi

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Farah Sohail I postd a while ago that I so hope that more of the SCP judges get to hear cases/appeals related to MNS and co that we may know who is who by the time the Panama references appeals get to SCP.

Whatever happens in Hudaibya, even if it is dismissed on technical grounds - for which the possibility is still minute thanks to Justice Khosa - still, the worries for Shahbaz Sharif should not end there due to his partnership in crimes of the elder brother over three dacades of rule.

Corruption allegations like the Multan Metro debacle raised by SECP's equivalent in China, should be investigated and raised as a seperate case by NAB. Even if NAB does not then it should be made part of a campaign to raise this issue by PTI and JI and Shaikh Rasheed so that NAB is ordered to investigate this Multan Metro Corruption Case.

I don't know why Sheikh Rasheed goes soft on Shahbaz Sharif and Ch.Nisar group but if MSS survives somehow then so will MNS legacy linger on.

With a view to Supreme Courts drive against corruption in coming years; these corruption cases have a very good chance to be taken up by SCP with Chiefs who are as strong as Ch.Iftikhar but not as compromised or tilted in favour of Sharifs and have a strong commitment to root out corruption.

Judges in high courts are lready sympathetic to sharifs... Agar hudaibya case reopen nahi hota..tu we should be really worried.. kiun ke..shahbaz sharif ke against agar doosray cases bhi aayein ge ..like metro scandal..they will eventually go in these courts only.. we all know about lower courts and high courts.. even agar SC se hudaibya jaisa obvious case reopen nahi hota..then we all should be really worried..

SC ke judges bhi agar itnay ziada sympathetic hian sharif family ke liye tu bas Allah khair karay..

And dont count on Justice Khosa or Gulzar becoming chief justice.. woh khud har case nahi sunein ge.. esp i think ..in cases about sharif family..mera khyal hai ke panama case judges nahi sunein ge ye appeals.. abhi jo references hain...basheeray ke pass...woh bhi jab SC aayein ge tu i dont think ke panama case judges usay sunein ge... koi aur hi judges honge..

Aur jaisy main pehle bhi keh chuki hoon... lagta hai ke SC main sab se better panama case judges hi hain.. baqi sab almost aisy hi honge jaisy Qazi Faez Isa.. inn logon ke pass agar appeals aati bhi hain tu koi faida nahi

Waisy bhi panama case ke 2 judges tu April/May 2018 main retire horahay hian.. Justice EJaz Afzal aur Justice Sheikh Azmat tu next year..April main retire horahay hain... inki jagah pata nahi kon aayega..?

Justice Khosa ya Justice Gulzar ke chief justice bannay ka ..atleast sharif family ke cases main koi faida nahi hoga kiun ke..i dont think ke woh sharif family ke against...mazeed koi cases sunein ge..aur jo doosray judges honge..cases sunein ge.....woh sab

 

[Realistic Change]

As if your posts weren't intriguing enough already.
Birds of a feather...i understand that there is a flock in sight.

I still stand by regarding MSS being partner in crime and must not be allowed to get away with it in any case.

There’s more to it - khair all in good time will become clearer and then clear

That’s the max I can divulge at this point in time.

 

[Shane]

You'll know the reason soon....very soon

Let's hope it is as soon as you say it will be, in sha Allah.

Any news on the health of Begum Kulsoom?

 

[PakSword]

Qazi Faez Isa ke baaray main ..in ki reputation ke baaray main generally? @PakSword

His reputation was good, until recently, some of his actions point to his inclination towards NS. I don't know what has changed him really.. but he is a changed man..

Lets see how he saves NS and SS from Hudaibiya..

agar ye kaam Pakistani khud karlen to karlen warna koi or karne kay liye tayyar betha hai

kaun?

 

[El Sidd]

kaun?

Koi hain aweim taang arrane wale

 

[PakSword]

Koi hain aweim taang arrane wale

aap ka matlab langri daingay?

 

[El Sidd]

aap ka matlab langri daingay?

Wo to waqt hi btaega

 

[Shane]

we all know about lower courts and high courts..

High court did reject Nawaz's appeal to combine references. Imagine the waste of time it would have resulted if this appeal was approved. It is not as gloomy after all.

That’s the max I can divulge at this point in time.

I understand but do comment on another aspect that seems quite strange:

I think that PTI and other parties are either playing it very very very fair or they are letting it slip but there is always a possibility of something saner rather than sinister or verging on incompetence in the policy of observe and watch from a distance with regards to accountability court proceedings.

If the judge is allowing a party's leaders to assemble in and outside, without feeling the pressure than why not atleast the lawyers and leaders of other parties go.

What is stopping PTI and other parties to observe inside and comment outside the trial court? I believe it is a public hearing or is it? Is this just the right of PMLN to attend the trial court proceedings? If PMLN goons are allowed then why can't others go? And more importantly, why are they so docile and always so agreeable to concede legal and political space to PMLN? Wouldn't it be a great pain in the @@@ of Nawaz if a fawad or chohan type pti spokesman was there to breath down their necks outside the trial court with some of their own medicine. It is after all political showmanship of Nawaz with focussed and one sided media coverage that is being allowed to go on without any challenge or counter. A low level opposition rep to rub some salt in, can be the best counter as well as insult to a disqualified crook.

 

[Farah Sohail]

His reputation was good, until recently, some of his actions point to his inclination towards NS. I don't know what has changed him really.. but he is a changed man..

Lets see how he saves NS and SS from Hudaibiya..

Hmm..matlab ...hum ne sahi andaza lagaaya Qazi Faez Isa ke baaray main..

Waisy ek Ejaz Afzal hain..who changed for the better and i really respect him for tht.. aur ek Qazi Faez Isa .jo bigar gaye

 

[PakSword]

Hmm..matlab ...hum ne sahi andaza lagaaya Qazi Faez Isa ke baaray main..

Waisy ek Ejaz Afzal hain..who changed for the better and i really respect him for tht.. aur ek Qazi Faez Isa .jo bigar gaye

maybe.. he also changes with time..

By the way, there is no comparison with any of the Panama bench judges.. Panama judges belong to another league...

I respect all of them.. Justice Khosa and Gulzar are the most respected.. but the other 3 aren't far behind.. no comparison..

 

[Farah Sohail]

maybe.. he also changes with time..

By the way, there is no comparison with any of the Panama bench judges.. Panama judges belong to another league...

I respect all of them.. Justice Khosa and Gulzar are the most respected.. but the other 3 aren't far behind.. no comparison..

Qazi Faez Isa change hi tu huay hain..tab hi tu bigray hain Aap bhi tu keh rahay hain ke his reputation was good but he is a changed man now.. aur jo NS ke itni buri tarah expose ho jaanay k baad ..esp after his "Mujhe kiun nikaala" campaign aur roz NS ki SC ke judges ko bura bhala bolnay ke baad uski taraf inclined ho....usay kia kaha jaa sakta hai? We can give benefit of duobt to Ejaz Afzal who was sympathetic to sharifs initially but he changed with time.. lekin ab jo NS ke itnay buri tarah expose honay ke bawajood uski taraf inclined ho..kiya usay honest kahaa jaa sakta hai? Ab NS aur kitna expose hosakta hai..is se ziada? Ab koi honest insan kaisy NS ki taraf inclined hosakta hai? So Qazi Faez Isa ..ke baaray main kia kahein?

I agree with you.. panama bench judges are the best.. Justice Khosa aur Gulzar tu best hain hi.. but Justice Ijaz ul Ahsan and Ejaz Afzal are also very good.. ijaz ul Ahsan tu shuru se hi achay thay......but Ejaz AFzal has really really earned my respect..the way he changed himself...shows how honest person he was....jinhon ne sachayi saamnay aanay par bohat bahaduri se apnay aap ko change kar liya.. very few can do tht... justice Sheikh Azmat is my least favorite among panama bench judges.... but he is still much better than the rest

Waisy mujhe Justice Umar Ata Bandial aur Justice Faisla Arab bhi theek thaak lagtay hain.. i dont know what verdict they will give in IK case..but i think they are honest ppl

But still...as u said ..panama case judges ka koi comparison nahi.. they are in a different league

 

[Shane]

Hmm..matlab ...hum ne sahi andaza lagaaya Qazi Faez Isa ke baaray main..

Waisy ek Ejaz Afzal hain..who changed for the better and i really respect him for tht.. aur ek Qazi Faez Isa .jo bigar gaye

I'm still hesitant to say either way about Justice QFI. But this much i can say: Haven't we had one example already where five judges who saw and stated the reality of the crooks as they are? Now the five are unable to be part of any bench that has any thing to do with those cases so here is the point of my two cents; even if any or all the 3 judges allow the Hudaibya case to reopen, the ones who go against the accused should keep the comments and order limited in that they don't seem to stand as partisan as e.g Justice Khosa...

In the end if all or most judges give verdicts in different appeals or reviews in other or related cases against the tubber, then there may be a time that most judges would have gone against Nawaz (or for nawaz, then same should apply on them too). If so happens then we may see the likes of justice khosa sitting in a larger or full bench that hears the eventual/ final appeals.

 

[Realistic Change]

Match is between entire Govt machinery, NAB, SECP, SBP, FBR, FIA, three biggest financiers (Ch Munir, Malik Riaz and Mian Mansha) of PMLN, and all other political parties including JI vs Few Judges of SCP & PTI.

One hell of match - the reason why PTI is not going to Accountability court was above - we do not want to open another unnecessary front to let PMLN paint judicial process as politically motivated already Mian Amer's TV and Mir Shakil are hell bent on twisting the facts. I have explained it several times - this decision like all other are up for scrutiny and some will like it and some will oppose it like @Shane is opposing and not agreeing to, like him there were members who were initially of this view - but that's the final decision which was deliberated upon hours and hours - in fact days!

 

[Shane]

Match is between entire Govt machinery, NAB, SECP, SBP, FBR, FIA, three biggest financiers (Ch Munir, Malik Riaz and Mian Mansha) of PMLN, and all other political parties including JI vs Few Judges of SCP & PTI.

One hell of match - the reason why PTI is not going to Accountability court was above - we do not want to open another unnecessary front to let PMLN paint judicial process as politically motivated already Mian Amer's TV and Mir Shakil are hell bent on twisting the facts. I have explained it several times - this decision like all other are up for scrutiny and some will like it and some will oppose it like @Shane is opposing and not agreeing to, like him there were members who were initially of this view - but that's the final decision which was deliberated upon hours and hours - in fact days!

One hell of a match indeed.

I understand that the strategy that is not being employed here was very much in practice during the entire Panama proceedings successfully.

I'm not suggesting a reinvention of the wheel and no where near a confrontation and not even on every hearing but rather a toned down version with only a couple of second tier reps led by lawyers like Baber or Fawad to keep their presence felt in court as well as media. They needn't hold a presser afterwards but a few quips while walking out to keep the fire warm. Eventually, This move would also have been enough to put a leash on the pmln workers being assembled there by design.

I still think that what I'm suggesting is a middle ground instead of the extremes of confrontation or a complete walk over that seems like a completely one sided political concession.