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Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

@Farah Sohail please.. koi baat buri lagi hai tou hum sab (aur main individually) muafi maangtay hain..


dill dhoondhta hai wohi discussion kay raat din
koi tou jo poochay "ye justice ijaz ul ihsan kab monitoring karaingy" :D

Inhi baaton se ghussay main aayee theen.. aap aur ghussa dilado.. lolz..

Nahi bhaii.. main yahan kisi se ghussay main nahi hun.. kiun sharminda karrahy hain..aap log mujhe?
main kiun ghussay main hongi..yahan kisi se? kon sa yahan par kisi ne basheeray ki jagah faisla dena tha jo..yahan kisi se ghussya main hoti? aur agar hoti tu bataa deti..aisy araam se na chali jaati

Bas..yeh baat hai ke yahan mera POV yahan shayad sab se different hai... mujhe waqayi kuch hota nazar nahi aaraha.. ..esp basheera aur judiciary se... tu wohi baatein baar baar pehlay ki tarah repeat karnay ka faida?
 
Nahi bhaii.. main yahan kisi se ghussay main nahi hun.. kiun sharminda karrahy hain..aap log mujhe?
main kiun ghussay main hongi..yahan kisi se? kon sa yahan par kisi ne basheeray ki jagah faisla dena tha jo..yahan kisi se ghussya main hoti? aur agar hoti tu bataa deti..aisy araam se na chali jaati

Bas..yeh baat hai ke yahan mera POV yahan shayad sab se different hai... mujhe waqayi kuch hota nazar nahi aaraha.. ..esp basheera aur judiciary se... tu wohi baatein baar baar pehlay ki tarah repeat karnay ka faida?

Dil Garden Garden ho-gaya app ki post dekh kar.

Agar app ka POV different hey tau bohat achi baat hey. We can all learn from each other.

I think we also need to learn that things may happen at a different pace then what we expect them to be. Therefore, while the things are taking shape we need to show patience and resilience.

So! the following is for your POV from Ghalib:

Ashqi sabr talab hey aur tamanna betab
dil ka kya rang karoon khoonay jigar honey tak.

I think we all want to see and reach the end quickly but patience is needed. Just look at IK, he is fighting for 22-years.
 
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Two things here tell you what's going on behind the curtains:

1 - The way people are coming forward to witness against Shareefs and Dar without feeling insecure...
2 - Shareefs constant blabbering against PA and Judiciary

So things are not the same as they seem to the ordinary people like us. In case we take the word of Haroon Rasheed as true, even then it is a blessing in disguise for Pakistan.. Telliing Judiciary that we are here in case you need us, and telling Shareefs that we will act as per the constitution.. This is a huge help...

And I like Haroon Rasheeds analysis when he says that decisions are made by Allah alone.. To implement them, He puts ideas in the hearts of people... you never know that despite the nature of our current PA leadership, an idea has been put by Allah swt to act constitutionally, and provide security to judges and all the witnesses..



Noon is spending 100s of billion of Rupees on MNAs and MPAs to keep them together.. Until when is the question..

Allah ki pakar buhat sakht hai iss baar...

Counting on leadership of institutions to make the right decision has resulted in 35 years of perpetual rule of sharifs.

It is not my intention to malign anyone but so has been our history. I have been constantly repeating that I am counting on Allah Subhan Taala to do exactly what you have mentioned above but without hinting towards sarcasm.

We have all seen the fruits of larger national interest. Never forget Shahbaz factor. Iss quoom kay godon gitton maen SS aur ch.nisar jaisay loog baithay hain...

Coming back to witnesses. There are witnesses and then there are other witnesses.

The witnesses to date in these references are employees who deal with bank accounts and taxes. They are witness to things already present on record. They are just to confirm the authenticity of what their institutions were asked to submit.

The other type of witnesses who have actually collaborated in financial embezzlement and money laundering are yet to come on trial (apart from Hijazi and his pomp under arrest is a sign of what). Things will become clearer about who is standing where when that happens and Hudaibya case begins. It is all talk as of yet.

If Shahbaz gets away with what he and Nisar are wheeling dealing about then where will the feel good arguments fly to?

If people with power to make a difference actually want any good for Pakistan instead of self serving interests then Allah Subhan Taala May have mercy on our nation and give courage, strength and support to those in favour of true justice across the board. All plans to the contrary shall be rendered ineffective if so happens or else it shall be a continuation of turmoil as usual and more of the same in store for us.

The vibes from Army have been really encouraging with respect to siding with justice. It is a tightrope nonetheless. Let's hope and pray that we are all sincere with ourselves.

Everyone should read the clear writings on the wall. Whatever happens, the results are inevitable.
If justice prevails then there shall be no stopping Pakistan to achieve the dream of safety, prosperity and unprecedented progress. If not then it shall be a nation of the corrupt, by the corrupt and for the corrupt.

No middle ground for us. No mix and match among the corrupt. No pick and choose among the corrupt.

Me four
 
Bas..yeh baat hai ke yahan mera POV yahan shayad sab se different hai... mujhe waqayi kuch hota nazar nahi aaraha.. ..esp basheera aur judiciary se... tu wohi baatein baar baar pehlay ki tarah repeat karnay ka faida?

himat rakhain ... cogs in the machine but it is moving ... change is a slow process ... system rotted gradually and it is being fixed gradually ... 2018 will be a very interesting year ...

Sit back and enjoy the show. Look at the bigger picture.
 
ICIJ may expose offshore law firm Appleby's clients in its 'Panama Papers 2' tonight
By News Desk
Published: November 5, 2017
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PHOTO: Twitter

The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ),the media group that coordinated the Panama Papers investigation into offshore companies, is set to unravel its “new leak” on Sunday night.

In April last year, the ICIJ had published 11.5 million documents – dubbed the Panama Papers – from the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca that were leaked to a German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung. They revealed how some of the world’s wealthiest and most powerful people legally hide their cash.

This time, the ICIJ is expected to expose the financial secrets of the super-rich clients of offshore law firm Appleby.

According to a report published in Business Insider, Appleby admitted that its data had been stolen in a cyber attack last year.

The law firm, which has offices in territories including Bermuda, admitted it was “not infallible” and said some client data had been stolen in the hack, but denied any wrongdoing.

The ICIJ approached the firm with allegations of wrongdoing, after it was handed data obtained in the hack, which Appleby strongly refuted.

Appleby said in a statement it did not tolerate “illegal behaviour,” and said the ICIJ’s allegations were “unfounded and based on a lack of understanding of the legitimate and lawful structures used in the offshore sector.” The firm said it had investigated the allegations “thoroughly and vigorously,” and was satisfied there was no evidence of wrongdoing “either on the part of ourselves or our clients.”

Appleby, which has branches in tax havens including the Cayman Islands and British Virgin Islands, specialises in advising high-net worth individuals as well as public and private companies. Its clients are said to include FTSE 100 and Fortune 500 companies, and the individuals affected by the leak are reported to be among the richest in the UK.

The Panama Papers shook the world, especially Pakistan where they caused the ouster of Nawaz Sharif from the post of the prime minister.
 
ICIJ releases ‘Paradise Papers’ revealing offshore companies
Pakistan
by Muhammad Irfan | Published on November 5, 2017 (Edited November 5, 2017)
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WASHINGTON – The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) has released a database of around 13.4 million documents revealing over 25,000 companies owned by the world’s rich and influential individuals.

The ICIJ coordinated the Panama Papers investigation into offshore companies.

The latest files have disclosed the financial details of politicians, corporations, and celebrities among others.

The Paradise Papers comprise a major part of documents leaked from the company ‘Appleby’.

The documents — obtained by a German newspaper from two companies in Singapore and Bermuda — have made public the data of over 25,000 companies owned by individuals from 180 countries, from 1950 to 2016.

Around 381 investigative journalists from 67 countries worked extensively to bring these facts before the people.

Senior The News reporter and ICIJ member Umar Cheema was also part of the team that unearthed the Paradise Papers.

In Pakistan, only Jang Group partners with the ICIJ.

Pakistanis named in Paradise Papers
Shaukat Aziz:

Former prime minister of Pakistan Shaukat Aziz was found linked with Antarctic Trust.

Antarctic Trust set up by him whose beneficiaries include Aziz’s wife, their children and granddaughter.

Aziz had set up the trust in Delaware (USA) before becoming finance minister. Interestingly, the trust was neither declared during his stint as finance minister nor as prime minister.

Speaking through his attorney in New York, Shaukat Aziz said that he didn’t have to declare the trust in Pakistan as he was a settlor.

When asked if his wife or children declared the trust, he responded that they didn’t have to declare because they were beneficiaries, not the beneficial owners.

Aziz served as prime minister from August 28, 2004, to November 15, 2007 and was appointed as finance minister in 1999.

Aziz settled abroad after his tenure came to an end in 2007.

Ayaz Khan Niazi:

Moreover, former National Insurance Corporation Limited chairperson Ayaz Khan Niazi has also been identified in the records in connection with four offshore holdings in British Virgin Islands.

One of them was a trust, Andalusian Discretionary Trust, while the other three were set up as companies: Andalusian Establishment Limited, Andalusian Enterprises Limited and Andalusian Holdings Limited.

All the three companies were set up in 2010 when Niazi was the chairperson of National Insurance Corporation Limited.

In the record, however, Niazi’s two brothers, Hussain Khan Niazi and Muhammad Ali Khan Niazi, were shown as the beneficial owners, whereas Ayaz along with his father Abdul Razaq Khan and mother Fauzia Razzaq acted as directors.

World leaders
Queen Elizabeth II:

Queen Elizabeth II has invested millions of dollars in medical and consumer loan companies, Appleby’s files show. While the Queen’s personal estate, the Duchy of Lancaster, provides some details of its investments in UK property, such as commercial buildings scattered across southern England, it has never disclosed details of its offshore investments.

The records show that as of 2007, the queen’s personal estate invested in a Cayman Islands fund that in turn invested in a private equity company that controlled BrightHouse, a UK rent-to-own firm criticised by consumer watchdogs and members of Parliament for selling household goods to cash-strapped Britons on payment plans with interest rates as high as 99.9 percent.

Queen Noor of Jordan:

Other royals and politicians with newly disclosed offshore ties include Queen Noor of Jordan, who was listed as the beneficiary of two trusts on the island of Jersey, including one that held her sprawling British estate.

Wesley Clark, a one-time Democratic presidential hopeful and a retired four-star US Army general who served as NATO’s supreme commander in Europe , was a director of an online gambling company with offshore subsidiaries, the files show.

In addition to disclosures about politicians and corporations, the files reveal details about the financial lives of the rich and famous – and the completely unknown. They include Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen’s yacht and submarines, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar’s Cayman Island investment vehicle,

Singers Madonna and Bono:

The Paradise Papers also reveal Madonna’s shares in a medical supplies company. Pop singer and social justice activist Bono – listed under his full name, Paul Hewson – owned shares in a company registered in Malta that invested in a shopping centre in Lithuania, company records show.

Stephen Bronfman:

The files reveal that Stephen Bronfman, Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau’s adviser and close friend, teamed up with Leo Kolber, another Liberal Party stalwart and former member of Canada’s Senate, and Kolber’s son to quietly move millions of dollars to a Cayman trust. The offshore manoeuvres may have avoided taxes in Canada, the United States and Israel, according to experts who reviewed some of the 3,000-plus files detailing the trust’s activities.

As the offshore riches grew, lawyers for Bronfman, the Kolbers and other wealthy interests lobbied Canada’s Parliament to fight legislative proposals to tax income from offshore trusts.

Bronfman remains a key fundraiser for Trudeau, who has championed openness in government and promised a crackdown on offshore tax dodging. In September, Trudeau told the UN General Assembly: “Right now, we have a system that encourages wealthy Canadians to use private corporations to pay a lower tax rate than middle-class Canadians. That’s not fair and we’re going to fix it.”

US Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross:

The Appleby files show how Wilbur Ross, Trump’s commerce secretary, has used a chain of Cayman Islands entities to maintain a financial stake in Navigator Holdings, a shipping company whose top clients include the Kremlin-linked energy firm Sibur. Among Sibur’s key owners are Kirill Shamalov, Russian President Putin’s son-in-law, and Gennady Timchenko, a billionaire the US government sanctioned in 2014 because of his links to Putin. Sibur is a major customer of Navigator, paying the company more than $23 million in 2016.

When he joined Trump’s cabinet, Ross divested his interests in 80 companies. But he kept stakes in nine companies, including the four that connect him to Navigator and its Russian clients.

These revelations come against a backdrop of growing concerns about hidden Russian involvement in US political affairs.



What is Paradise Papers?
The Paradise Papers is a database comprising around 13.4 million documents, which reveals over 25000 companies owned by the world’s rich and influential individuals.

The documents were obtained from two companies in Singapore and Bermuda by a German newspaper and shared with the ICIJ. A major part of the Panama Papers comprises leaked files from company ‘Appleby’.

The files reveal data of over 25,000 companies owned by individuals from 180 countries, from 1950 to 2016.

Below is a comparison of Paradise Papers with Panama Papers:

Number of politicians and public officials
Paradise Papers: 127 politicians and public officials (14 current or former country leaders included) from more than 47 countries

Panama Papers: 140 politicians and public officials from more than 50 countries

Which leak is the bigger than other?
Paradise Papers is bigger in the number of records (13.5 million in Paradise Papers vs. 11.5 million in Panama Papers) and Panama Papers is bigger in terms of the size of the leak (1.4 Tb in Paradise Papers vs. 2.6 Tb in Panama Papers).

Due to that, I would recommend saying “one of the biggest leaks in the history of journalism” instead of the biggest and then you could compare some of the different figures related to the data size between Paradise Papers and previous leaks.

Journalists in Paradise Papers project
Media partners, countries, journalists:

* Number of journalists 381

* Number of media partners 96

* Number of countries 67

If you just consider the number of journalists, yes. There are more journalists working on the Paradise Papers than the Panama Papers at the time of the project release (381 Paradise Papers – 376 Panama Papers).

As for the number of media partners and number of countries, there are a few less. Panama Papers had 100+ media partners and 76 countries. The ICIJ currently has for Paradise Papers 96 media partners and 67 countries.

Disclaimer: It is pertinent to note here that not every offshore firm is necessarily illegal.
 
Counting on leadership of institutions to make the right decision has resulted in 35 years of perpetual rule of sharifs.

It is not my intention to malign anyone but so has been our history. I have been constantly repeating that I am counting on Allah Subhan Taala to do exactly what you have mentioned above but without hinting towards sarcasm.

We have all seen the fruits of larger national interest. Never forget Shahbaz factor. Iss quoom kay godon gitton maen SS aur ch.nisar jaisay loog baithay hain...

Coming back to witnesses. There are witnesses and then there are other witnesses.

The witnesses to date in these references are employees who deal with bank accounts and taxes. They are witness to things already present on record. They are just to confirm the authenticity of what their institutions were asked to submit.

The other type of witnesses who have actually collaborated in financial embezzlement and money laundering are yet to come on trial (apart from Hijazi and his pomp under arrest is a sign of what). Things will become clearer about who is standing where when that happens and Hudaibya case begins. It is all talk as of yet.

If Shahbaz gets away with what he and Nisar are wheeling dealing about then where will the feel good arguments fly to?

If people with power to make a difference actually want any good for Pakistan instead of self serving interests then Allah Subhan Taala May have mercy on our nation and give courage, strength and support to those in favour of true justice across the board. All plans to the contrary shall be rendered ineffective if so happens or else it shall be a continuation of turmoil as usual and more of the same in store for us.

The vibes from Army have been really encouraging with respect to siding with justice. It is a tightrope nonetheless. Let's hope and pray that we are all sincere with ourselves.

Everyone should read the clear writings on the wall. Whatever happens, the results are inevitable.
If justice prevails then there shall be no stopping Pakistan to achieve the dream of safety, prosperity and unprecedented progress. If not then it shall be a nation of the corrupt, by the corrupt and for the corrupt.

No middle ground for us. No mix and match among the corrupt. No pick and choose among the corrupt.


Me four


I think we both are on the same page.. What I am saying is that I believe Allah has started taking action against Shareefs.. Now as we say that He puts ideas in the hearts of people, we may see some good actions from people who in our opinion have become useless.. Like Chairman NAB, Basheera, DG NAB Lahore etc..

Regarding witnesses, there are witnesses who are coming forward from outside institutions.. Like Saeed Ahmed.. Servant of Dar etc..

So affairs are not very gloomy..
 
Only Shaukat Aziz's name disclosed, Kind of disappointing.

Only shows that Zardari is the absolute master of this game - his name was not in Panama papers and now not in the Paradise papers either.
 
I think we both are on the same page.. What I am saying is that I believe Allah has started taking action against Shareefs.. Now as we say that He puts ideas in the hearts of people, we may see some good actions from people who in our opinion have become useless.. Like Chairman NAB, Basheera, DG NAB Lahore etc..

Regarding witnesses, there are witnesses who are coming forward from outside institutions.. Like Saeed Ahmed.. Servant of Dar etc..

So affairs are not very gloomy..

Some signs are encouraging, others not so much.
 
No middle ground for us. No mix and match among the corrupt. No pick and choose among the corrupt.

There's a term sir 'Qeht ur Rijaal' that is we are in today. These people have some vote and support. If we don't choose among them then who? We'll be like political orphans, like headless chicken running here and there. After creating this vacuum it's better to have techno govt till the mechanism is formed to bring the replacement in front.
 
Why NAB has requested UK and Saudia for providing Docs ???? this is not the responsibility of NAB to request countries when the convicted person already ACCEPTED that the properties own by him and his family. All the burdern on the person who admitted that to prove not the area of NAB according to the LAW.

"Supreme Court put entire BURDEN OF PROF on Respondents not on NAB" bc NAB chutya bana rahe hey....
 

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