Pak's Harba missile: How India is fortifying defences to prevent Moskva like incident

[Zarvan]

Since sinking of Russian flagship cruiser- Moskva, after being hit by a Ukrainian missile. India has been keeping a close watch on Pakistan navy’s anti-ship missile - Harba. In March 2022, Pakistan showcased its anti-ship cruise missile Harba for the first time in Qatar. It was developed for Pakistan navy to create an indigenous solution for its vessels. Watch this video for more.

 

[Kompromat]

Harba's actual range is undisclosed.

 

[khail007]

Since sinking of Russian flagship cruiser- Moskva, after being hit by a Ukrainian missile. India has been keeping a close watch on Pakistan navy’s anti-ship missile - Harba. In March 2022, Pakistan showcased its anti-ship cruise missile Harba for the first time in Qatar. It was developed for Pakistan navy to create an indigenous solution for its vessels. Watch this video for more.

Are not we worried about the same from BRAHMOS missile?
IMO, it is routine for both sides to check the punch of the enemy and to devise strategy/defensive moves from such missiles for neutralization, avoidance, and destruction before reaching their intended targets.

But a worrisome scenario as a country like Russia failed to save its flagship cruiser. India & Pakistan are nowhere to defend themselves from such attacks. Pakistan already tasted it from the 1971 missile attack on Karachi Port.
India, with all the best used from Israel EW suits in their MIGs never able to avoid the missiles fired from Pakistan.
Once fired, the missile is usually a potent force against its target. We witnessed the frustration and confusion of Indians as they shot down their own helicopter in the 'surgical strike' skirmish.

 

[Two banks of the River]

The 10 Talwar, 3 Shivalikh and 3 Delhi class will be in a bind against salvo attack from any contemporary anti ship missile because of the limitations of the arm launcher of Shtil1.

Shivalikh and Delhi have Barak 1, so some sort of terminal protection is there but the Talwar frigates will be in danger.

The 10 Talwar, 3 Shivalikh and 3 Delhi class will be in a bind against salvo attack from any contemporary anti ship missile because of the limitations of the arm launcher of Shtil1.

Shivalikh and Delhi have Barak 1, so some sort of terminal protection is there but the Talwar frigates will be in danger.

But out of these, 3 Shivalikh are under the Eastern Command and 3 Delhi after their MLU are to be transferred to the Eastern command to fill the gaps of retiring Rajput Class.

Out of 10 Talwars, the new 4 Frigates will also likely go to the Eastern Command.

The 6 remaining Talwar class Frigates and 4 ASW Frigates (Brahmaputra and Godavari) lack the B8. These ships will face problems.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Harba will first need to know where to target

U.S. Intelligence Helped Ukraine Strike Russian Flagship, Officials Say

The questions that need to be asked
What is agreement between China and Pak on geo-spatial intelligence sharing?

What space assets do Chinese have for monitoring IOR region?

What is time between Chinese space assets detecting Indian warship to Pakistani navy decision to target them?

Once decision is made, can Harba hit moving targets?

How many Harbas will be required to sink a Indian warship, given barak-1 can intercept them.

 

[Hassan Guy]

The questions that need to be asked
What is agreement between China and Pak on geo-spatial intelligence sharing?

A good one.

What space assets do Chinese have for monitoring IOR region?

Enough.

What is time between Chinese space assets detecting Indian warship to Pakistani navy decision to target them?

Fast.

Once decision is made, can Harba hit moving targets?

Perhaps.

How many Harbas will be required to sink a Indian warship, given barak-1 can intercept them.

One and above.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

A good one.

Enough.

Fast.

Perhaps.

One and above.

Your responses remind me of this guy

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Since sinking of Russian flagship cruiser- Moskva, after being hit by a Ukrainian missile. India has been keeping a close watch on Pakistan navy’s anti-ship missile - Harba. In March 2022, Pakistan showcased its anti-ship cruise missile Harba for the first time in Qatar. It was developed for Pakistan navy to create an indigenous solution for its vessels. Watch this video for more.

Pakistan is developing P-282 Supersonic Missile.

Next step will most likely be engine tech for cruise missiles (be it indigenous, imported under TOT or reverse engineered).


AFAIK Pakistan has good navigation/accuracy in CM which india lacks and india has good engines/speed which Pakistan lacks.


But with Brahmos tech falling in Pakistan and the scandal few years back where top scientists of Brahmos was compromised. Pakistan has stuff to reverse engineer too.

TOT and other stuff is on the table as well. So we might see increase in speed of Pakistani Cruise Missiles.

 

[RescueRanger]

Indians accidentally gave us a n early Eid present - those who know- know

 

[White privilege]

Indians accidentally gave us a n early Eid present - those who know- know

That was no accident, but yeah gifts are good.

 

[Zarvan]

The 280 KM range is BS. It's the range which we have declared for export version. As we can't officially export a missile with more then 300 KM range. Real range in all probability is above 500 KM at least. Pakistan needs to soon come with 1000 KM version of it. Plus work with China and use their navigation system to target moving ships with same accuracy as they can hit target on land with. That would be game changer.

 

[White privilege]

The 280 KM range is BS. It's the range which we have declared for export version. As we can't officially export a missile with more then 300 KM range. Real range in all probability is above 500 KM at least. Pakistan needs to soon come with 1000 KM version of it. Plus work with China and use their navigation system to target moving ships with same accuracy as they can hit target on land with. That would be game changer.

What is more important is to have the ISR capability to find, track and Indian Naval assets, at very fast pace.I believe Chinese are already assisting us with that.

Also, 1000 km range is pretty much useless with a subsonic missile.We need high supersonic or hypersonic capable missiles to hit moving targets that far out.

 

[Tornado23]

The 280 KM range is BS. It's the range which we have declared for export version. As we can't officially export a missile with more then 300 KM range. Real range in all probability is above 500 KM at least. Pakistan needs to soon come with 1000 KM version of it. Plus work with China and use their navigation system to target moving ships with same accuracy as they can hit target on land with. That would be game changer.

Real range is in excess of 700km

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Harba will first need to know where to target

U.S. Intelligence Helped Ukraine Strike Russian Flagship, Officials Say

The questions that need to be asked
What is agreement between China and Pak on geo-spatial intelligence sharing?

What space assets do Chinese have for monitoring IOR region?

What is time between Chinese space assets detecting Indian warship to Pakistani navy decision to target them?

Once decision is made, can Harba hit moving targets?

How many Harbas will be required to sink a Indian warship, given barak-1 can intercept them.

We are going for very comprehensive layer of serveilen

Harba will first need to know where to target

U.S. Intelligence Helped Ukraine Strike Russian Flagship, Officials Say

The questions that need to be asked
What is agreement between China and Pak on geo-spatial intelligence sharing?

What space assets do Chinese have for monitoring IOR region?

What is time between Chinese space assets detecting Indian warship to Pakistani navy decision to target them?

Once decision is made, can Harba hit moving targets?

How many Harbas will be required to sink a Indian warship, given barak-1 can intercept them.

1) will not Long range maritime patrol aircrafts provide us surveillance capabilities over IOR?

We will have 10 MPAs in near future.

Alone in peace time but escorted by fighter jets in war time.

What about surveillance capabilities provided by high altitude Long endurance UCAVs?

And there will be our surface vessels (Type 54 A/P frigates ,Covettes) also in open sea.What about their radars? They will also provide surveillance and target capabilities.



And there will submarines also.



And what about ground based long range radars? They can also provide surveillance and target capabilities to our ground based coastal defence systems.





2) we do not know enough about China-Pakistan co-operation in maritime surveillance through satellites.



3) According to Eurasian times,we have huge stock piles of Harbah but according to GIDS guy reported here by @ Bratva,there was only limited production of Harbah and it was upgraded also with time.

It means that Navy is eyeing for something more better than Harbah (most probably P-282 super Sonic cruise Missile which will take two more years for its development••• reference @ Bratva who quoted GIDS representative).

 

[Zarvan]

What is more important is to have the ISR capability to find, track and Indian Naval assets, at very fast pace.I believe Chinese are already assisting us with that.

Also, 1000 km range is pretty much useless with a subsonic missile.We need high supersonic or hypersonic capable missiles to hit moving targets that far out.

Subsonic missile is pretty effective and it's most difficult thing to detect. One weapon which is working for Russia and Ukraine are their subsonic cruise missiles. The more the range the better. US is also providing Harpoon to Ukraine for a reason. Subsonic is most stealth. The more the speed the less stealthy they become.