Pakistan's UAV - Drone developments

[fatman17]

Pakistan flexes UAV muscles at IDEAS:


Gordon Arthur, Karachi, Pakistan
James Hardy, London Section:

2012-Nov-14


Pakistan's Global Industrial & Defence Solutions (GIDS) used the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) in Karachi in early November to highlight its range of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV), one of which showed signs of close co-operation with China.

The Shahpar shares some design features with the CASC CH-3 UAV. (Robert Hewson) The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3. IHS Jane's reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011. It is unclear whether the Shahpar is one of those 20 systems, an indigenously developed variant of the CH-3, or a separate programme.

According to the company, the Shahpar is powered by a 100 hp Rotax piston engine with a maximum speed of 150 km/h, has an endurance of 7 hours, and is capable of day/night surveillance. GIDS officials added that it had completed qualification tests and was ready for production.

The Shahpar is the most modern UAV in the GIDS stable. (Gordon Arthur) The Shahpar will complement GIDS' Uqab tactical UAV. Fitted with a gyro-stabilised gimbal with colour day camera and a thermal imager with target tracking and locking capabilities, the Uqab has been in service with the Pakistan Army since 2007 and recently entered service with the Pakistan Navy in a coastal surveillance role. The navy is also acquiring an Uqab-derived UAV called the Huma, which is truck-launched using a rocket booster and recovered by the use of a parachute. A GIDS spokesman said the navy is currently conducting trials of the UAV, which has a ceiling of about 4,600 m.

GIDS also exhibited its 4 kg Scout Mini: a hand-launched UAV with a 15 km range and endurance of 45 minutes that is designed for use with a two-man team and is in the process of being commissioned by the army.

COMMENT
It is unclear what the relationship between the CH-3 and the Shahpar is, but UAV analysts point to the large number of similarities between the two platforms and previous reports of CH-3 sales to Pakistan. That Islamabad and China are "all-weather friends", the bromide used by officials from both sides, adds to the belief that some kind of joint venture has taken place.

Meanwhile, the navy's deployment of the Uqab UAV, which has been in service at Pakistan Naval Station (PNS) Mehran in Karachi since July 2011, provides it with a step up in capabilities and may go some way to filling the cap caused by the destruction of two Lockheed Martin P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft at PNS Mehran by militants in May 2011.

While those two aircraft were subsequently replaced by the delivery of two P-3Cs in 2012, it is likely that the P-3C fleet will be smaller than originally intended and so UAVs will give commanders more operational flexibility.


JDW

 

[The Deterrent]

For comparison:

GIDS Shahpar UAV

CASC CH-3 UCAV

 

[Thorough Pro]

Bolded part is exactly what I said in my post, reproduced below for your reference.

We need tounderstand that battlefield recon drones with 100/200 mile range are good for formation commanders for a limited area survelience, but when we talk of UCAV, we need to understand that armed drone missions are planned much like other airforce assets. They require refueling, re-arming and system checks which are better done at "normally" airforce bases, and airforce bases would normally be farther than 200 KM range from the target area and thus require a reliable communication channel which can effectively communicate beyond line of sight distances and and in all terrains.

Not necessarily. Satellite based datalinks are necessary for UAVs operating too far away from the control stations (like some MQ-9s are controlled by operators in UK and USA).
For Pakistan to control UAVs inside Pakistan is no big deal, datalinks can be provided. An example is the Shahpar UAV, it can transmit real-time data from over 250 km away from the control station.

Originally Posted by Conceal Carry

A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013).

Untill then it's all talk

 

[Viper0011.]

A very important element of an integrated UAV/UCAV system with decent range is a satelite which [/B]can act as a communication bridge between control station and the bird. We will not see a fully functional effective UAV/UCAV systemuntill our GPS satellite does not become fully functional (reported earlier to be functionalby June 2013)

Not only for long range ops, the sat link is also needed for real time situational awareness, three d imaging of the area, etc. A sat can show three d images or infra red images of the area and all objects

 

[ANG]

Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones - Yahoo! News


Pakistan struggles in race to develop armed drones
By SEBASTIAN ABBOT | Associated Press – 4 hrs ago

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan is secretly racing to develop its own armed drones, frustrated with U.S. refusals to provide the aircraft, but is struggling in its initial tests with a lack of precision munitions and advanced targeting technology.

One of Islamabad's closest allies and Washington's biggest rivals, China, has offered to help by selling Pakistan armed drones it developed. But industry experts say there is still uncertainty about the capabilities of the Chinese aircraft.

The development of unmanned combat aircraft is especially sensitive in Pakistan because of the widespread unpopularity of the hundreds of U.S. drone strikes against Taliban and al-Qaida militants in the country's rugged tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

The Pakistani government denounces the CIA strikes as a violation of the country's sovereignty, though senior civilian and military leaders are known to have supported at least some of the attacks in the past. Pakistani officials also call the strikes unproductive, saying they kill many civilians and fuel anger that helps militants recruit additional fighters — allegations denied by the U.S.

Pakistan has demanded the U.S. provide it with armed drones, claiming it could more effectively carry out attacks against militants. Washington has refused because of the sensitive nature of the technology and doubts that Pakistan would reliably target U.S. enemies. The U.S. has held talks with Pakistan about providing unarmed surveillance drones, but Islamabad already has several types of these aircraft in operation, and the discussions have gone nowhere.

Inaugurating a defense exhibition in the southern city of Karachi last week, Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf indicated Islamabad would look for help from Beijing in response to U.S. intransigence.

"Pakistan can also benefit from China in defense collaboration, offsetting the undeclared technological apartheid," said Ashraf.

Pakistan has also been working to develop armed drones on its own, said Pakistani military officials and civilians involved in the domestic drone industry, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the classified nature of the work.

Pakistan first began weapons tests seven or eight months ago with the Falco, an Italian drone used by the Pakistani air force for surveillance that has been modified to carry rockets, said a civilian with knowledge of the secret program. The military is also conducting similar tests with the country's newest drone, the Shahpur, he said. An unarmed version of the Shahpur was unveiled for the first time at the Karachi exhibition.

The weapons tests have been limited to a handful of aircraft, and no strikes have been carried out in combat, said the civilian.

Pakistan lacks laser-guided missiles like the Hellfire used on U.S. Predator and Reaper drones and the advanced targeting system that goes with it, so the military has been using unguided rockets that are much less accurate.

While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target, said the civilian. Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile's weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.

Pakistan's largest drone, the Shahpur, has a wingspan of about seven meters (22 feet) and can carry 50 kilograms (110 pounds). The U.S. Predator, which can be equipped with two Hellfire missiles, has a wingspan more than twice that and a payload capacity over four times as great.

Pakistani drones also have much more limited range than those produced in the U.S. because they are operated based on "line of sight" using radio waves, rather than military satellites. The Shahpur has a maximum range of 250 kilometers (150 miles), while the Predator can fly over five times that distance.

The British newspaper The Guardian reported Tuesday that Pakistan was working on an armed drone but did not provide details.

The market for drones has exploded in Pakistan and other countries around the world in recent years, as shown by the array of aircraft on display at the defense exhibition in Karachi. Hoping to tap into a worldwide market worth billions of dollars a year, public and private companies wheeled out over a dozen drones that ranged in size from hand-held models meant to be carried in a backpack to larger aircraft like the Shahpur.

All the Pakistani drones on display were advertised as unarmed and meant for surveillance only. One private company, Integrated Dynamics, even promotes its aircraft under the slogan "Drones for Peace." But several models developed by the Chinese government were marketed as capable of carrying precision missiles and bombs.

The Chinese government has offered to sell Pakistan an armed drone it has produced, the CH-3, which can carry two laser-guided missiles or bombs, industry insiders said.

Also being offered to Pakistan is a more advanced drone, the CH-4, which closely resembles a U.S. Reaper and can carry four laser-guided missiles or bombs, according to Li Xiaoli, a representative of the Chinese state-owned company that produces both the CH-3 and CH-4, Aerospace Long-march International Trade Co., Ltd.

Pakistan has yet to purchase any armed Chinese drones because their capabilities have yet to be proven, but is likely to do so in the future, said the civilian with knowledge of the Pakistani military's drone program.

Only a few countries, including the U.S., Britain and Israel, are known to have actually used armed drones in military operations.

"China is a bit of a tough nut to crack as you'd expect," said Huw Williams, a drone expert at Jane's International Defense Review. "They frequently wheel out exciting looking aircraft but are yet to really demonstrate anything earthshattering."

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Pakistan racing to develop armed drones, officials say - World - CBC News

 

[a1b2c145]

If I may make a recommendation, Pakistan should put away all the aforementioned unremarkable toy UAVs and move up to the CH-4 [NOT CH-3]; now that look like serious stuff...IYKWIM. When that thing flies, it will be the most Reaper-esque drone Chinese have come up with. Maybe after wasting some money & time on CH-3, Pakistan will trade up to CH-4. So many toys and so little money to choose with.......

You Mean this baby, CH-4？ Yes!!! much better than Wing Loong(they are simlar, but quite different)!
CH-4:

Wing Loong:

 

[a1b2c145]

Boys are assembling a Wing Loong during the Zhuhai air show:

 

[Thorough Pro]

While Hellfire missiles are said to have pinpoint accuracy, the rockets used by Pakistan have a margin of error of about 30 meters (100 feet) at best, and an unexpected gust of wind could take them 300 meters (1,000 feet) from their intended target, said the civilian. Even if Pakistan possessed Hellfires and the guidance system to use them, the missile's weight and drag would be a challenge for the small drones produced by the country.

Bullcrap...........are we talking about paper rockets here?

 

[ANG]

Bullcrap...........are we talking about paper rockets here?

Hi, more importantly, I do not think the PA/PAF is that backward to use unguided rockets on a UAV. It is an interesting article; I am sure the PAF is struggling with targeting systems, due to lack of a satellite system. However, using unguided rockets, I do not believe that.

 

[qwerrty]

China’s UAS Aimed at Buyers in Developing Countries
Posted on November 19, 2012 by The Editor

In one half-hour period on the opening day of the show, a delegation of a dozen military officers from Myanmar stopped by the CASC display for a few minutes to hear a quick sales pitch, followed by a handful of more dapper officials from Kenya who chatted a little longer with the reps about a forthcoming trip to Beijing.

Asian and European delegates also could be seen ambling up to the railing to get a closer look.

Guo said that Pakistan had already purchased several CH-3 drones, but those have been now upgraded to CH-4 capability due to a service agreement they’d hatched together.

The latest CH-4 on display can be used for reconnaissance and combat, carries up to four precision-guided bombs, can reach an altitude of eight kilometers, has a range of 3,500 kilometers, and fly for up to 30 hours depending on how heavy a payload it is carrying.

The company, which is based in Beijing but manufactures in the nearby municipality of Tianjin, is currently negotiating with Egypt on selling a “whole package air defense system,” Guo said, which will also include medium-range CH-91 military surveillance UAVs that cost around $3 to $5 million including the vehicle and operating system.

CASC also displayed a handful of smaller short range drones and set up a flashy ground-to-ceiling UAS attack simulation compete with a dozen technicians glued to computer screens in a the make-believe war room.

“Our company has set up a pretty aggressive sales target for UAVs, but the global market competition is quite fierce,” Guo said. “There are many similar products in the global market and they are quite mature, so we haven’t had a big impact in the market. It will take some time for our products to be known and accepted.”

Compared to the glitz of the displays and openness from the CASC reps, who talked frankly to delegations, journalists and your average Zhou, there was a stark difference in how the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) — the company’s main competitor — played its hand.

Its showcase offered only small-scale models of UAS and while all but one had printed material to give viewers a better idea of the capabilities of the drones, guides said there was none for their major product — the Wing Loong — almost an identical twin to the CH-4.

Out under the hot sun on a far corner of the tarmac, an actual Wing Loong was on display, along with several other drones including a mini-jet UAV called the Blue Fox used for air-to-air combat training, but company representatives were assuredly tight-lipped about their top drone.

Although security allowed Chinese reporters inside the fenced-off area to get close to the vehicle and take group photos next to it, they refused to allow any foreign reporters or foreigners not in an official delegation inside.

Reports in the Chinese press indicate the Wing Loong can fly for around 20 hours maximum, has a range of around 4,000 kilometers, and costs around $1 million for the vehicle itself.

AVIC representatives also displayed a few drones that have been converted from military to civilian use that they hope to sell, but admitted that they have not sold any yet outside of China.

One of them, the SW-1, costs around $640,000, which doesn’t include the price of the large truck that holds the computer system needed to operate the drone. A rep also said that it takes two or three months to train someone to use the UAV, which is a considerable investment considering the ease of training on new drones coming down the pipeline.

Source: Alaska Despatch

does pakistan have any military comm satellite?

China Makes Foreign UAS Sales at Zuhai Airshow
Posted on November 19, 2012 by The Editor

The two Chinese aircraft were designed to be controlled by a ground station via satellite relay.

The export versions are controlled only by ground stations, limiting their range and to conform to international arms sale regulations.

Source: Global Times

......................

 

[Najam Khan]

The Shahpar shares some design features with the CASC CH-3 UAV. (Robert Hewson) The 470-kg medium-range Shahpar bears more than a passing resemblance to the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) CH-3. IHS Jane's reported in 2010 that China was preparing to deliver 20 systems, along with the CASC FT-5 65 kg-class 'small diameter bomb', to Pakistan in 2011. It is unclear whether the Shahpar is one of those 20 systems, an indigenously developed variant of the CH-3, or a separate programme.
....
A GIDS spokesman said the navy is currently conducting trials of the UAV, which has a ceiling of about 4,600 m.

Shapar/Ch-3 seems like good design and can be operated by Navy/army units who need firepower other than CAS by Air Force. But If one sees these drones or Pterodactyl -1 as a long term solution to Pakistani armed forces,then they need some serious design changes. 100-200kg payload is not enough, even MQ-1 had loaded weight of 2,250 lb (its latter version MQ-9 carries 3,800 lb (1,700 kg) weight on 7 hard points). Plus, service ceiling has to be over 7000m (23,000ft).

Wing Loong / Pterodactyl costs 1 million USD$, its way too low than its US counterparts but it has lesser punch and lesser service ceiling (endurance is not much issue for Pakistan, as we don't have operations in stand-off ranges). If such changes are addressed in later designs then we can see a combat drone in service with Pakistani armed forces.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Apart from R & D being carried out in developing a UCAV, Pakistan should also start working on such a system

Drone Economics: Tiny tactical drones get dirt-cheap, GPS-guided bombs | Ars Technica

It can give Pakistan Army a useful tactical weapon. Less expensive then Hellfire type missile and without even a satellite link we can deploy it in range of 100kms or so. Already Pakistan has got drones which can carry 50kg payload. Guys if you can brainstorm over this..

 

[Safriz]

chinese wing loong is dirt cheap at only 1 million dollars,compared to USA's reaper at 34 million USD.

 

[Oldman1]

chinese wing loong is dirt cheap at only 1 million dollars,compared to USA's reaper at 34 million USD.

You pay what you get.