Pakistan’s Terror Game

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

well she nailed it in one sentence "This attack was not meant to spoil a peace process for the simple reason that there can be no meaningful peace process with Pakistan".

She exposed her irrational anti-Pakistan bias, shared by many Indian commentators, with that one sentence.

What she perhaps neglected to explicitly state, but is clearly evident in both that particular sentence and the content of the rest of the piece (as well as all her other irrational anti-Pakistan rants), is that her definition of a 'meaningful India-Pakistan peace process' is a process in which Pakistan capitulates to every single Indian demand (incidentally a view shared by Hussain Haqqani as well).

Fair and Haqqani don't want a 'peace process' or 'India-Pakistan dialog', they want complete Pakistani capitulation on all disputes with India - Haqqani pretty much comes right out and says as much.

 

[Fenrir]

Appreciate the tag, and thanks for remembering me, but I know very little about the dynamic between India and Pakistan. After reading the article I know slightly more about the subject from one angle, but am a cautious person and will reserve any judgement, not that I've enough info on the subject to make one, knowing that both sides have their views and their reasons for making them public. I'll refrain from too much input on this subject, it's already a contentious , even more so for an outsider and casual observer like myself..

Thus I will eagerly await the comments with intrigue and amusement.

Popcorn anyone?

 

[Spectre]

There was no bang for all the bucks plucked from our pockets, If the government is too spineless to provide security, refund our taxes. After all we are the biggest stakeholders in this "enterprise".

Would you say the same thing to Israel? After all they do suffer much more than us despite having the most aggressive security policy possible but you don't see Israel going to war with Iran.

India has many retaliatory options and it employs them but not always in the light of the day - they are called covert for a reason.

 

[MilSpec]

My suggestion is to stop becoming hysterical over unsubstantiated allegations against Pakistan and recognize the fact that successive Indian governments have manipulated the media to propagate anti-Pakistan hysteria and hatred through the Indian populace.

The inability to follow through on their scapegoating of Pakistan was first blamed on a weak Congress leadership, but with the '56 inch chest thumping Modi' in charge, whose government is spewing many magnitudes more anti-Pakistan poison, the reality remains the same, irrespective of how much jingoists in the Indian media might try to distort any foreign policy event into something that 'Modi accomplished'.

hehe.

Un-substantiated... you need substantiation of Pakistan's active role in terrorism in India, and you have been a Moderator on this forum, and keenly followed developments in this area for years now.

I am trying to be like all of my countrymen, I am asking for fiscal responsibility. If the government doesn't have the capability to provide security to citizenry as it leverages security with economic investment metrics, then atleast provide tax relief to the people. Say 10% for removal of national defences, and another 5% by elimination of military assets.

If they still need to maintain a military force for protection of ambanis and tata's assets they can accrue it from their coffers. Why burden the regular folks who neither care about their fellow citizens being blown to bits or have any concerns for sovereignty.

Would you say the same thing to Israel? After all they do suffer much more than us despite having the most aggressive security policy possible but you don't see Israel going to war with Iran.

India has many retaliatory options and it employs them but not always in the light of the day - they are called covert for a reason.

Please don't bring a country like Israel into the discussion. It will be to shameful to draw any comparison.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Appreciate the tag, and thanks for remembering me, but I know very little about the dynamic between India and Pakistan. After reading the article I know slightly more, but am a cautious person and will reserve any judgement, not that I've enough info on the subject to make one, knowing that both sides have their views and their reasons for making them public. In plain terms, I know an agenda when I see one, and Pakistan and India have been pushing competing ones for years. I'll refrain from too much input on this subject, it's already a contentious subject, even more so for an outsider and casual observer like myself.

Thus I will eagerly await the comments with intrigue and amusement.

A rule of thumb to keep in mind when reading geo-political analysis, at least when the parties involved are managed by institutional players, is that the world is composed of shades of grey, not black and white. Commentators like Christine Fair that are obsessively focused on demonizing one party and painting it as Satan incarnate in the world are, as I just said, obsessed and irrational.

 

[Spectre]

A rule of thumb to keep in mind when reading geo-political analysis, at least when the parties involved are managed by institutional players, is that the world is composed of shades of grey, not black and white. Commentators like Christine Fair that are obsessively focused on demonizing one party and painting it as Satan incarnate in the world are, as I just said, obsessed and irrational.

And why would Christina Fair a respected Prof within Center for Peace and Security Studies (CPASS), within Georgetown University’s Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service and a fellow with counter Terrorism center at West Point be obsessively focused on demonizing one party and painting it as Satan incarnate in the world?

Just because you say so? Just because her opinions don't conform to your own?

 

[MilSpec]

She exposed her irrational anti-Pakistan bias, shared by many Indian commentators, with that one sentence.

What she perhaps neglected to explicitly state, but is clearly evident in both that particular sentence and the content of the rest of the piece (as well as all her other irrational anti-Pakistan rants), is that her definition of a 'meaningful India-Pakistan peace process' is a process in which Pakistan capitulates to every single Indian demand (incidentally a view shared by Hussain Haqqani as well).

Fair and Haqqani don't want a 'peace process' or 'India-Pakistan dialog', they want complete Pakistani capitulation on all disputes with India - Haqqani pretty much comes right out and says as much.

Well i disagree with her narrative,
I think it needs to be appreciated that Pakistan at-least shows courage in the face of a challenge, as I said, I have zero expectations from this government. Atleast Pakistan shows solidarity with Kashmiris, All my government shows is solidarity with FDI and business houses.

As I said, relinquish the state of Jammu and Kashmir, and go hide under your desks in New Delhi. Whatever glimmer of hope of a strong leadership was promised by this government has vanished into thin air with it's conduct.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

hehe.

Un-substantiated... you need substantiation of Pakistan's active role in terrorism in India, and you have been a Moderator on this forum, and keenly followed developments in this area for years now.

I need substantiation for Pakistani institutional support for terrorism in India just as much as you would need substantiation for Indian institutional support for terrorism in Pakistan. Why would terrorists attack a Pakistani military base housing AEW&C aircraft and specifically target those aircraft whose biggest contribution would be in a conventional India-Pakistani conflict?

Your biggest contribution as an Indian citizen would be to encourage your government to enter into negotiations with Pakistan and arrive at a compromise solution on Kashmir, or simply encourage your government to implement the UNSC Resolutions and allow the Kashmiris to choose. India had no qualms about militarily and forcefully annexing Junagadh and Munavadh (acceded to Pakistan officially) or using force to annex Hyderabad, so perhaps it is time for the Indian citizenry to recognize the wrong committed by their country and agree to a neutral referendum in J&K.

 

[MilSpec]

I need substantiation for Pakistani institutional support for terrorism in India just as much as you would need substantiation for Indian institutional support for terrorism in Pakistan. Why would terrorists attack a Pakistani military base housing AEW&C aircraft and specifically target those aircraft whose biggest contribution would be in a conventional India-Pakistani conflict?

Your biggest contribution as an Indian citizen would be to encourage your government to enter into negotiations with Pakistan and arrive at a compromise solution on Kashmir, or simply encourage your government to implement the UNSC Resolutions and allow the Kashmiris to choose. India had no qualms about militarily and forcefully annexing Junagadh and Munavadh (acceded to Pakistan officially) or using force to annex Hyderabad, so perhaps it is time for the Indian citizenry to recognize the wrong committed by their country and agree to a neutral referendum in J&K.

Even better,

I say take the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir, and promise to spare our measly lives. I am sure that would resonate quite clearly among the spineless cowards we have elected.

And why would Christina Fair a respected Prof within Center for Peace and Security Studies (CPASS), within Georgetown University’s Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service and a fellow with counter Terrorism center at West Point be obsessively focused on demonizing one party and painting it as Satan incarnate in the world?

Just because you say so? Just because her opinions don't conform to your own?

Credentials do not matter, here car salesmen can discredit serving ACM's and cab drivers can design better aircrafts than RAC, PAC, HAL and Boeing combined.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And why would Christina Fair a respected Prof within Center for Peace and Security Studies (CPASS), within Georgetown University’s Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service and a fellow with counter Terrorism center at West Point be obsessively focused on demonizing one party and painting it as Satan incarnate in the world?

Just because you say so? Just because her opinions don't conform to your own?

Not because I 'say so', but because her arguments have been demonstrated time and again to be flawed and irrational, as in this piece - it's a load of unsubstantiated nonsense and speculation.

Her basic underlying contention is, as I pointed out, that Pakistan capitulate to India on everything, since she has the gall to continue to call Pakistan's position on the Kashmir Dispute as 'baseless', and continues to parrot a completely out-of-context excerpt from the UNSC Resolutions to trumpet her claim. A commentator who cannot be bothered (or refuses to recognize) her inherently flawed theories and claims, despite having them pointed out time and again, and instead chooses to engage in vulgar Punjabi/Urdu expletive laden tirades against an entire country, nationality and/or ethnic group is pretty obviously off her rocker and incapable of unbiased and rational analysis.

 

[MilSpec]

Your biggest contribution as an Indian citizen would be to encourage your government to enter into negotiations with Pakistan and arrive at a compromise solution on Kashmir, or simply encourage your government to implement the UNSC Resolutions and allow the Kashmiris to choose. India had no qualms about militarily and forcefully annexing Junagadh and Munavadh (acceded to Pakistan officially) or using force to annex Hyderabad, so perhaps it is time for the Indian citizenry to recognize the wrong committed by their country and agree to a neutral referendum in J&K.

As an Indian Citizen, my job is to sing national anthems, follow bollywood gossip, vote for the best PR campaign every 5 years, pay taxes and STFU.
that is my job.

 

[dadeechi]

Because this isn't poker. If the "bluff" turns out to be real, what then?.

That was the risk that I was referring in my post.

 

[Spectre]

Not because I 'say so', but because her arguments have been demonstrated time and again to be flawed and irrational, as in this piece - it's a load of unsubstantiated nonsense and speculation.

Her basic underlying contention is, as I pointed out, that Pakistan capitulate to India on everything, since she has the gall to continue to call Pakistan's position on the Kashmir Dispute as 'baseless', and continues to parrot a completely out-of-context excerpt from the UNSC Resolutions to trumpet her claim. A commentator who cannot be bothered (or refuses to recognize) her inherently flawed theories and claims, despite having them pointed out time and again, and instead chooses to engage in vulgar Punjabi/Urdu expletive laden tirades against an entire country, nationality and/or ethnic group is pretty obviously off her rocker and incapable of unbiased and rational analysis.

I see nothing in your arguments to confirm that the her views are fallacious except that she paints Pakistan for what it is and doesn't shy around the fact because she has no skin in the game unlike officials from the state dept. who have to work with Pakistan no matter how bad it's track record has been.

The actions speak much louder than words and we just have to observe Pakistan's track record to come to the correct conclusion.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Even better,

I say take the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir, and promise to spare our measly lives. I am sure that would resonate quite clearly among the spineless cowards we have elected.

Again, no need for hysteria - just encourage your government to accept the commitments she made multiple times on implementing the UNSC Resolutions on J&K.

Credentials do not matter, here car salesmen can discredit serving ACM's and cab drivers can design better aircrafts than RAC, PAC, HAL and Boeing combined.

Since when does Georgetown specifically demand an absolutely rational and objective view on India-Pakistan relations as part of their hiring requirements?

When did Fair start with her expletive laden tirades/rants against Pakistan, Pakistanis, Punjabis? Before or after her being hired?

If these irrational tirades started prior to her employment at the School, were these unhinged tirades flagged to the university hiring panel?

 

[Spectre]

Again, no need for hysteria - just encourage your government to accept the commitments she made multiple times on implementing the UNSC Resolutions on J&K.

Since when does Georgetown specifically demand an absolutely rational and objective view on India-Pakistan relations as part of their hiring requirements?

When did Fair start with her expletive laden tirades/rants against Pakistan, Pakistanis, Punjabis? Before or after her being hired?

If these irrational tirades started prior to her employment at the School, were these unhinged tirades flagged to the university hiring panel?

Please debate her conclusions not her personality in a classic case of ad hominem. Her credentials have been vouched for people much more qualified and experienced in these matters - how else would she become a fellow in counter terrorism at West Point?