Pakistan's terrible idea to develop battlefield nukes

[Solomon2]

Yes Pakistan need to have these tactical nukes to prevent any invasions also if india -

Due to local circumstances they won't serve that function. (Tactical nukes will, however, work excellently to Indian advantage at destroying Pakistani fortifications.)

Pakistan should not ban anything which other countries have in their inventory. WHY ALONE PAKISTAN DO THIS ?

I guess you're expressing the real reason Pakistan is pursuing tactical nukes: it wants to possess what other countries seen as powerful have. And the question of whether it makes good sense matters very little, yes?

 

[notorious_eagle]

Didn't you knew that Indian tech is from Mars

Nothing matches their tech in this world. Be it nukes or tanks

Indeed, Indian Tech definitely is from Mars. I was going to reply to our lovely Indian friend here, but than i read this and decided otherwise. It would be an utmost waste of my time to have an intellectual discourse with an individual whose bias has clouded his judgement.

Even the People of Pakistan would start supporting Indian Invasion and stop supporting the already corrupt administrative institutions...

 

[Solomon2]

India is first met with conventional resistance and if things go beyond a certain point , with tactical nuclear warheads ... Small armored columns , am i missing something here ? :
Why ?

Company-sized armored thrusts are better countered by conventional means than nuclear.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Company-sized armored thrusts are better countered by conventional means than nuclear.

The Armoured Thrusts are more likely going to be bigger than that. A company sized armoured thrust would make things very easy for PA. Well dug in PA defenders can target them by creating ATGM hell holes, create a kill boxes with A-100 and artillery shells. For an enemy like PA, IA needs Division sized attacks and this is exactly what they are aiming for. 8 simultaneous Division Sized attacks, a tactical nuke exploded over them is enough to fry them and send a message to India that the nuclear threshold has been reached.

 

[somebozo]

Indians expect that Pakistan should welcome their invading CBG's with roses and jasmine - which is more impossible than alien abduction.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Indians expect that Pakistan should welcome their invading CBG's with roses and jasmine - which is more impossible than alien abduction.

I could not believe my eyes when i read that , but hey this is the side affect of watching too many Bollywood movies.

 

[Solomon2]

The Armoured Thrusts are more likely going to be bigger than that. A company sized armoured thrust would make things very easy for PA. Well dug in PA defenders can target them by creating ATGM hell holes, create a kill boxes with A-100 and artillery shells. For an enemy like PA, IA needs Division sized attacks and this is exactly what they are aiming for. 8 simultaneous Division Sized attacks, a tactical nuke exploded over them is enough to fry them and send a message to India that the nuclear threshold has been reached.

You think the IA will deploy a division in Thar close enough together that a tactical nuke would be useful? Why would they do that, since no fortifications or natural barriers exist to channel the battle? India would only need to do that to counter a similar-sized concentration of mobile force from Pakistan - which India could just as well wait to wallop with its own tactical nuclear arsenal once the Pakistani force crosses the border.

Once again, Pakistan is the projected loser in such a conflict.

 

[Ticker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Thar attack scenario India invades Pakistan with many small armored columns; thus, tactical nukes will not be employed there.

I think it's still quite a stretch to see ANY scenario where Pakistan could actually employ tactical nukes to its practical advantage in a war with India. That's why, even if India and Pakistan don't want to get rid of their nukes entirely, it makes good sense for them to ban these - at least for Pakistan.

The Americans planned to use 50-60 nukes against the Soviets within the first few minutes of initiation of hostilities in case their tank columns started rolling down from East Germany.

These nukes were to be mainly launched against the depth targets in East Germany, reserves, artillery concentrations, logistical echelons and communication infrastructure etc.

The idea being to isolate the advancing fighting echelons from its support infrastructure and thus envelop them.

The Germans particularly and the Allies in general were against use of these nukes on European territory.

This forced, amongst other reasons, technological development which led to the initial Land Air Warfare Concept. Use of superior conventional means to achieve same objectives and therefore reduce the chances of a nuclear exchange.

Why can't the tactical nukes be used in such an environment. Use of nuke size for target neutralization be governed through use of tactical nuclear weapons or tactical use of nuclear weapons.

 

[notorious_eagle]

You think the IA will deploy a division in Thar close enough together that a tactical nuke would be useful?

Looking at their deployments right now, they have the capacity to attack Thar at a Corps Level. In the past they were training to fight PA on a Corps Level, only recently their method of thinking has changed, at least on paper. A Company sized attack is to small to make a dent against PA, it will easily be quashed. In order to threaten PA and gain a victory in the eyes of their domestic audience, IA needs to initiate an attack at least on a Division Level. Anything less than that is a loss.

Why would they do that, since no fortifications or natural barriers exist to channel the battle?

No fortifications exist . Would you mind looking at the defensive deployments of PA's infantry and see where the ATGM hell holes are installed. Its not enough to annihilate a division sized attack but is certainly enough to slow them down and cause attrition.

India would only need to do that to counter a similar-sized concentration of mobile force from Pakistan - which India could just as well wait to wallop with its own tactical nuclear arsenal once the Pakistani force crosses the border.

PA forces won't be crossing over and i am yet to see an operational Indian tactical nuke. I am not saying that they don't have the means to get it, but as of right now its not operational.

Once again, Pakistan is the projected loser in such a conflict.

How so? You are yet to put up a credible argument, all you have done is run around in circles.

 

[Solomon2]

Looking at their deployments right now, they have the capacity to attack Thar at a Corps Level. In the past they were training to fight PA on a Corps Level -

Do you think this Corps will be fighting close together enough in the desert to make a tactical nuclear strike useful?

In order to threaten PA and gain a victory in the eyes of their domestic audience, IA needs to initiate an attack at least on a Division Level. Anything less than that is a loss.

How do you know this is Indian thinking and not Pakistani?

No fortifications exist . Would you mind looking at the defensive deployments of PA's infantry and see where the ATGM hell holes are installed. Its not enough to annihilate a division sized attack but is certainly enough to slow them down and cause attrition.

News to me, I cannot evaluate.

i am yet to see an operational Indian tactical nuke. I am not saying that they don't have the means to get it, but as of right now its not operational.

If a tactical nuke arms race is started then India, with its greater experience with plutonium-fueled weapons, will almost certainly be at a great advantage.

 

[Contrarian]

@ Ticker - Blockading Pakistani ports cannot invite nuclear strike. For doing that you would have to locate a constantly moving CBG in the first place. Secondly, IN doesnt need to use a CBG to blockade Pakistan. It can be done by a regular SAG. Infact it is a certainty, not a speculation that IN will blockade Pakistan. There is no Navy bar USN that can prevent IN from doing so. Yes that includes PLAN as well. In IOR, they are underdogs.


@notorious eagle - You say International opinion will not be with India? You realize that any attack from India will essentially be in response to a terrorist attack on India conducted by Pakistani state/non state(same thing) actors. You have been villified enough in front of the world by your own doing. You will not get any sympathy. Even in Kargil, the staunchest supporter of Pakistan, China did not support Pakistan. In case of a terror attack on India, you are isolated. As India's economic and military might grows, other nations will be more inclined to favour India in anycase.


There is a declared statement that any strike on Indian forces anywhere will invite nuclear retaliation.
Now that retaliation can be a massive strategic strike.
Or another limited yield strike on the offending base/nearest military installation from the area which Pakistani tac nuke was launched.

The second option is most likely. It will have responded Pakistani use of nukes on Indian forces by a launch on the offending forces, while not being a strategic city strike.

At the guy who mentioned that it would take India and Pakistan roughly the same amount of time to assemble their nukes.
Within 5 years, India would have a ready deployed nuke at sea. The response to a tac nuke by Pakistan need not wait for assembly of components on Indian mainland. It would be already deployed at sea.

Within a decade, India plans to have 3 boomers on patrol. Point being - no need to wait to assemble nukes. Pakistani use of tac nukes can be responded to with minimal time gap.

The ball would then be in Pakistan's court - whether it wants to continue using nukes. There would be no domestic backlash in this case as well - which is certain in case India accepts a nuke on its forces without retaliation.

 

[Rafi]

Pakistan maintains enough conventional ability with it's offensive capability - all the tactical nuke does is give us an insurance policy, against being overrun with sheer numbers.

Pakistan has war gamed and planned for indian attempts at a naval blockade suffice to say our C-602 ASM with 400km + range is just one of the many welcomes the enemy will receive.

 

[Secur]

Typical Instant response without even thinking... whats written or whats being said.
Those who are Uneducated are not required to read this

Besides that India is the only country in the world which operates FBR

Indeed , the first thought in my mind when I saw your very post dreaming of the best case scenario for your country and the worst case for others ... You talk about Plutonium enrichment capability of Pakistan ? Ever heard of Khushab reactor ?

In late 2006, the Institute for Science and International Security released intelligence reports and imagery showing the construction of a new plutonium reactor at the Khushab nuclear site. The reactor is deemed to be large enough to produce enough plutonium to facilitate the creation of as many as "40 to 50 nuclear weapons a year."[57][58][59] The New York Times carried the story with the insight that this would be Pakistan's third plutonium reactor,[60] signaling a shift to dual-stream development, with Plutonium-based devices supplementing the nation's existing HEU stream to atomic warheads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khushab_Nuclear_Complex

Let me help you , kid ... Pakistan is fast shifting its focus to a plutonium based nuclear program and there isn't a single indication of any operational plutonium based warhead in your inventory except for your fan boy statements and fantasy thinking ! You only have a single FBR operational as at now , lying and distorting facts about having 7 of them operational wont change the reality on ground , will it ? ... Some future planning doesn't count ( enough experience with Indian deadlines and their continuous extensions ) since even we have a lot of plans for the future , shall i begin posting about them ?

Really ? Another God's exclusive gift to India ? ... What are you smoking to think that you are the only country in the world to have a single FBR ?

Those who think their country has achieved some milestone by deploying nuclear bombs on an aircraft and Pakistan doesn't have enough delivery methods need not post even ...

 

[Secur]

Do you think this Corps will be fighting close together enough in the desert to make a tactical nuclear strike useful?

How do you know this is Indian thinking and not Pakistani?

News to me, I cannot evaluate.

If a tactical nuke arms race is started then India, with its greater experience with plutonium-fueled weapons, will almost certainly be at a great advantage.

Yeah , they have to ... Otherwise they are no match for well dug in fortified PA ... They are supposed to overwhelm Pakistani defenses , attain a near impossible surprise factor , gain some territory and have a bargaining chip when it finally comes to negotiation !

The whole idea behind " Cold Start " is to gain a victory in the eyes of domestic audience and punish Pakistan , just not to cross Pakistan nuclear threshold which again is very low ... So , a massive power projection is needed by IA for that ...

If you are not aware of the Pakistani fortifications along the IB , remember PA's not crossing the border , then whats more left to discuss here ?

Nuclear and conventional arms race has always there ... What sort of absurd logic is that Pakistan should abandon its tactical nukes program just because India has a bit more experience with Plutonium based nukes , what does it change on the ground ?

P.S Why are you so keen for Pakistan to disband / abort tactical nukes ? Is it a huge success ?
We measure the success of our weapons by the amount of propaganda and venom spitted by our enemies so continue providing us more reason to believe that !

 

[Riteon]

The Armoured Thrusts are more likely going to be bigger than that. A company sized armoured thrust would make things very easy for PA. Well dug in PA defenders can target them by creating ATGM hell holes, create a kill boxes with A-100 and artillery shells. For an enemy like PA, IA needs Division sized attacks and this is exactly what they are aiming for. 8 simultaneous Division Sized attacks, a tactical nuke exploded over them is enough to fry them and send a message to India that the nuclear threshold has been reached.

Not reached...has been crossed for both nations .