Pakistan's Sub Programme

[T-Rex]

Pakistan Navy has recently received its first F-22 type frigate from China. It will certainly enhance PN's capability. However, we should remember that surface ships are very vulnerable to air assaults. Americans can afford to operate huge ships like the carriers for they have the state of the art air defence systems. For PN I think it will be wiser to give priority to its sub programme. It should develop attack subs like the US seawolves. During the WW-II the German U-boats almost cut off the allied supply lines, it was only after the Americans and the British had managed to break the code of the U-boat transmissions that the U-boats were defeated.

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan Navy has recently received its first F-22 type frigate from China. It will certainly enhance PN's capability. However, we should remember that surface ships are very vulnerable to air assaults. Americans can afford to operate huge ships like the carriers for they have the state of the art air defence systems. For PN I think it will be wiser to give priority to its sub programme. It should develop attack subs like the US seawolves. During the WW-II the German U-boats almost cut off the allied supply lines, it was only after the Americans and the British had managed to break the code of the U-boat transmissions that the U-boats were defeated.

PN sub program is on-line

besides the old agosta's, 3-new agosta-90B's have been inducted and the german merlin contract is close to signing which will replace the retired daphne's.
with ToT, the more agosta-90B's can be built at the khi shipyards if required.

 

[sohailbutt]

Fatman bhai, frankly speaking I dont think there is any GERMAN MERLIN, I think MERLIN is French, you must have been mistaken with U-214 which PAK navy was very much interested in!!!

 

[IceCold]

Fatman bhai, frankly speaking I dont think there is any GERMAN MERLIN, I think MERLIN is French, you must have been mistaken with U-214 which PAK navy was very much interested in!!!

He meant that either the german or the merlin deal are closing to the signing off between the two countires. Both deals are on the cards, but we are favouring the U-214 over the french merlin, as merlin is relatively a new design and that too on paper and not much is known about its capabilities.However if the U-214 does not go forward, we will go for the merlin class keping in view with our experince with the french products. Besides not many strings will come attached with the merlin deal.

 

[Always Neutral]

He meant that either the german or the merlin deal are closing to the signing off between the two countires. Both deals are on the cards, but we are favouring the U-214 over the french merlin, as merlin is relatively a new design and that too on paper and not much is known about its capabilities.However if the U-214 does not go forward, we will go for the merlin class keping in view with our experince with the french products. Besides not many strings will come attached with the merlin deal.

If you go for the U214 what sub launched missile will you go for ? There are only french missiles, US missiles and russian missiles available. I think it will be the marlin.

Regards

 

[IceCold]

If you go for the U214 what sub launched missile will you go for ? There are only french missiles, US missiles and russian missiles available. I think it will be the marlin.

Regards

It would be probally the harpoon. As with the merlin deal too, we did not wanted the french exocet rather we wanted the harpoon to be inducted and the french were ready but the integration and testing cost would have to be bear by us.

 

[Mustapha]

I would prefer the U-214, since it would diversify PN's weapons.

For Russian equipment, hopefully the next Russian guy Vladimir Medvedev won't be too "Putiny" in some policies. Though it look like Medvedev is very loyal. We wil have to wait and see...

 

[Marshal]

I would prefer the U-214, since it would diversify PN's weapons.

For Russian equipment, hopefully the next Russian guy Vladimir Medvedev won't be too "Putiny" in some policies. Though it look like Medvedev is very loyal. We wil have to wait and see...

Sorry.....No offence but.....
Excuse me......I think The next Russian Pressident is Dmitri Medvedev not Vladimir.

 

[fatman17]

Fatman bhai, frankly speaking I dont think there is any GERMAN MERLIN, I think MERLIN is French, you must have been mistaken with U-214 which PAK navy was very much interested in!!!

i stand corrected - thanks.

 

[Quwa]

I wouldn't worry much about the PN's ammunition in the future. Even the Turks are interested in the U214, but they intend to use their own torpedo technology. Pakistan might follow suit and proceed with a local AShM. We will be dealing with SLCMs on those submarines...might as well work in all local weapon-systems. There was a flippish news report claiming that PN wants local AShM & ASROC capability...for ASROC it will also need a local lightweight torpedo project.

 

[fatman17]

I wouldn't worry much about the PN's ammunition in the future. Even the Turks are interested in the U214, but they intend to use their own torpedo technology. Pakistan might follow suit and proceed with a local AShM. We will be dealing with SLCMs on those submarines...might as well work in all local weapon-systems. There was a flippish news report claiming that PN wants local AShM & ASROC capability...for ASROC it will also need a local lightweight torpedo project.

well intentioned but very ambitious wish-list!

 

[araz]

Brothers
i am a bit confused. Is the f22p ready to undergo sea trials and weapons fixation and due for delivery in2009 or has it been delivered? my thinking was the former.Thanks for clearing up this confusion in advance.
Araz

 

[fatman17]

Brothers
i am a bit confused. Is the f22p ready to undergo sea trials and weapons fixation and due for delivery in2009 or has it been delivered? my thinking was the former.Thanks for clearing up this confusion in advance.
Araz

correct - weaponisation & sea trials remain.

 

[Quwa]

well intentioned but very ambitious wish-list!

Sir;

1) The Turks are already on the heavy (local) & lightweight torpedo (with S.Korea) projects. Pak-Korea cooperation is on the rise, starting with the occassion of artillery ammunition.

2) The Turks are already hoping for SLCM capability; they have seeked strategic capability for a while now. Due to MTCR it would be impossible to procure or have a JV with Pakistan on an naval cruise missile with a range of +300km. However cooperation on very specific technology relating to propulsion, airframe, etc, is very much possible...a generic MoU was signed on R&D of "turbojet rocket/engine" and "precision guidance" fairly recently b/w Turkey & Pakistan.

Though I would not expect long-range strategic strike capability so soon. Pakistan is better off to develop an MTCR compliant SLCM & VL-LACM with the Turks, and use the experience & technology to further develop the design & Babur.

3) Local AShM & ASROC is a little more difficult. Though an MTCR-legal AShM was already developed by the Chinese in the form of C-803. Assistance from them in this area is possible, though that report (posted below) solely mentioned South Africa. Give them a number of years, I am confident an interesting design for AShM will surface in Pakistan. ASROC would more difficult...either a separate system entirely...or a system based on that AShM.

Though with South Africa, it is very much possible there could be ramjet cooperation - it was offered in 1999. The Indian Brahmos is a ramjet design, so the PN may be looking at similar AShM capability through local industry & foreign cooperation/assistance. Seeker technology could be developed through help from China and/or MBDA-France. Again ASROC might be achieved using the AShM as a basis like the Otomat was for the Milas ASROC.

The Nation

Pakistan has asked for long-range South African missiles having capacity of being routed under water in addition to hitting surface target from a ship, well-placed sources told TheNation on Tuesday.

The sources were of the view that more than the products Pakistan would be interested in this particular missile technology that is purely meant for Naval forces. The South African missiles to be launched by a ship in both categories that are surface-to-surface meaning thereby ship-to-ship by air, and second is to target both ships and submarines moving under water

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Mark, I've also seen these articles dealing with co-op between pakistan and south africa in ramjet powered BVR missiles. but has pakistan actually gone ahead with the project? such a joint-venture would be hard to resist from pakistan.

I understand we most likely won't find out for a while, just like the H-2 and H-4 A2G weapons in partnership with Denel. yet, do you have the slightest hint from someone like pshamim?