Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Don't know mate. It might come down to choosing between arming 30% troops with best rifle or 100% with much better one. An LMG replacement is also getting due and may be packaged or affected by this deal. Let's see. Things should clear up by year's end. Chief will likely finalise before he leaves office.

That's now how it works .. Even if they select AK it would take years to replace the G-3...

They can either go for a cheaper rifle that's already outdated for the next 20+ years or the best which would easily soldier on for decades and looking at Gen Raheel I'm sure he's force wm to go for the best..

 

[Zarvan]

How did you get this info?

Well member balixd is the source

That's now how it works .. Even if they select AK it would take years to replace the G-3...

They can either go for a cheaper rifle that's already outdated for the next 20+ years or the best which would easily soldier on for decades and looking at Gen Raheel I'm sure he's force wm to go for the best..

We would have never tested FN SCAR if we had money issue. The moment we chose FN SCAR we knew what we are going for.

 

[MastanKhan]

M-21 series is reliable but kicks like a mule .. I don't think they will go for an AK type weapon .. Otherwise they would have just standardised the T-56s in service ...

The aim of choosing a new rifle is to upgrade the army .. A rifle that will work for the next 20 years at least... POF is also tying to overhaul itself..

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View attachment 302731
Personally I like Bren too... It's affordable and seems reliable ..



They should also start exporting G3 semi variants and the semi automatic "Sportster" sniper to US.. I'm sure they will make a killing.

Hi,

First they need to find out that the used military rifles---once refurbished in a semi automatic mode---what would they sell for in the U S---.

If they can sell 10000 rifles at 1000 dollars profit----they have a million bucks---they can buy 3 times the number of AK types for police and rangers----if they can sell 500000---they have 5 million dollars made---buy 30k AK's for the police---and the rest for their top tier rifle.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Entire army would be say roughly 600,000 strong @ roughly 500 a pop would mean US$ 300,000,000 @ PKR 100 a Dollar would be PKR 30,000,000,000.

Can you please share the "we calculated everything" calculation?

It would go for entire Army and when we began the trials we calculated everything than trials were started and Sir I should remind you we would get the Gun with TOT so we can increase production rate as economy improves.

Finally for using public in war I think it should happen and it will happen.

 

[Zarvan]

Entire army would be say roughly 600,000 strong @ roughly 500 a pop would mean US$ 300,000,000 @ PKR 100 a Dollar would be PKR 30,000,000,000.

Can you please share the "we calculated everything" calculation?

Sir 14 companies wanted to come including Chinese and MPT-76. We didn't invited them so before testing FN SCAR we knew what we are doing and what we are opting for.

 

[Thorough Pro]

NO It's not doing so well. The good thing was that POF created a new 'license produced" segment besides very expensive HK MP5 and pretty expensive locally workshop produced clones from kits or imported parts. POF entered at a comparatively low price ($1499) range with genuine 2nd push pin (hinged lower), good build quality, and superb functional reliability but it really sucked at finishing and some times misaligned sight tree, and tube. Once the market was established Turkish made MP-5's entered the market with better finish and sight alignment etc and is now dominating that segment. That is what happens when you enter a market without proper home work and for temporary gains.

Yep MK, I hear POF manufactured MP-5 is doing quite well over in the states, so why not G-3.kudos

Yes we knew what we wanted but how can you say that we wanted that for entire 600,000 soldiers and not only 30 or 50 or 100k strong strike force?

Sir 14 companies wanted to come including Chinese and MPT-76. We didn't invited them so before testing FN SCAR we knew what we are doing and what we are opting for.

 

[Zarvan]

NO It's not doing so well. The good thing was that POF created a new 'license produced" segment besides very expensive HK MP5 and pretty expensive locally workshop produced clones from kits or imported parts. POF entered at a comparatively low price ($1499) range with genuine 2nd push pin (hinged lower), good build quality, and superb functional reliability but it really sucked at finishing and some times misaligned sight tree, and tube. Once the market was established Turkish made MP-5's entered the market with better finish and sight alignment etc and is now dominating that segment. That is what happens when you enter a market without proper home work and for temporary gains.



Yes we knew what we wanted but how can you say that we wanted that for entire 600,000 soldiers and not only 30 or 50 or 100k strong strike force?

Sir we are going to replace the Gun for entire Army. @balixd Sir please you are needed here and also @DESERT FIGHTER @

NO It's not doing so well. The good thing was that POF created a new 'license produced" segment besides very expensive HK MP5 and pretty expensive locally workshop produced clones from kits or imported parts. POF entered at a comparatively low price ($1499) range with genuine 2nd push pin (hinged lower), good build quality, and superb functional reliability but it really sucked at finishing and some times misaligned sight tree, and tube. Once the market was established Turkish made MP-5's entered the market with better finish and sight alignment etc and is now dominating that segment. That is what happens when you enter a market without proper home work and for temporary gains.



Yes we knew what we wanted but how can you say that we wanted that for entire 600,000 soldiers and not only 30 or 50 or 100k strong strike force?[/QUhttp://men.c4defence.com/Agenda/fnss-signs-agreement-with-oman-/543/1OTE]

NO It's not doing so well. The good thing was that POF created a new 'license produced" segment besides very expensive HK MP5 and pretty expensive locally workshop produced clones from kits or imported parts. POF entered at a comparatively low price ($1499) range with genuine 2nd push pin (hinged lower), good build quality, and superb functional reliability but it really sucked at finishing and some times misaligned sight tree, and tube. Once the market was established Turkish made MP-5's entered the market with better finish and sight alignment etc and is now dominating that segment. That is what happens when you enter a market without proper home work and for temporary gains.



Yes we knew what we wanted but how can you say that we wanted that for entire 600,000 soldiers and not only 30 or 50 or 100k strong strike force?

Sir Pakistan is looking for NEW STANDARD ASSAULT RIFLE for its Army. In Army terms it means a Gun on which every soldier is trained and carries it. @Thorough Pro

 

[Thorough Pro]

Thank you for educating me, I didn't know that. by the way how many types of guns does PA currently use? and why would it want for every single individual soldier to use the same type?

Even if I accept what you are saying that PA wants one single type for the whole army, it will take approximately 7+ years to accomplish that due to financial constraints and manufacturing capability. Let's do a calculated guess how many guns can be produced on a single plant with lets say 3 complete lines? 100 guns per line per day that would be 300 guns per day, for 300 work-day year that would come to 90,000 guns a year and 630,000 in 7 years provided there are zero stoppages on account of material unavailability, machine breakdowns, preventive maintenance, power disruptions, natural calamities, financial constraints, spare shortages, manpower issues, etc. etc.

Sir Pakistan is looking for NEW STANDARD ASSAULT RIFLE for its Army. In Army terms it means a Gun on which every soldier is trained and carries it. @Thorough Pro

 

[Zarvan]

Thank you for educating me, I didn't know that. by the way how many types of guns does PA currently use? and why would it want for every single individual soldier to use the same type?

Even if I accept what you are saying that PA wants one single type for the whole army, it will take approximately 7+ years to accomplish that due to financial constraints and manufacturing capability. Let's do a calculated guess how many guns can be produced on a single plant with lets say 3 complete lines? 100 guns per line per day that would be 300 guns per day, for 300 work-day year that would come to 90,000 guns a year and 630,000 in 7 years provided there are zero stoppages on account of material unavailability, machine breakdowns, preventive maintenance, power disruptions, natural calamities, financial constraints, spare shortages, manpower issues, etc. etc.

Yes we use many kind of Guns but G3 is considered stand assault rifle of Pakistan Army.

 

[Arsalan]

This is why I am inclined towards Zastava M-21 and Ak-103. More I think about it more logical such choices seem. Who gives a rats *** how a rifle looks or how good the outer finish is. If it fires under adverse conditions, can be field maintained by the simple 'kaka sepoy' and hits it mark, I'm perfectly fine with it. Don't you think?



I have a feeling we might end up with Ak or Zastava. You do want those -35s don't you?

I agree with the looks part. I am also pretty sure that army wont be making a decision based on looks. A force with our budget need to use the available resources at hand in the best possible fashion. I understand how much almost everyone here like a new modern weapon system to be inducted with the whole army but considering all things, that wont be happening anytime soon. Instead we are more likely to see a couple of different gins being inducted for different roles/mission profiles and handed over to the relevant units/forces. Ideally, we will love a new modern assault rifle to equip whole army, theoretically it also do not looks like a very big deal as we are surely going for a home production in case we do but when you look at the whole picture, the gins are not THE MOST hot issue right now.
All said, if we are going for a new gun in limited number, we may see the best option available, no compromise!!

 

[Zarvan]

I agree with the looks part. I am also pretty sure that army wont be making a decision based on looks. A force with our budget need to use the available resources at hand in the best possible fashion. I understand how much almost everyone here like a new modern weapon system to be inducted with the whole army but considering all things, that wont be happening anytime soon. Instead we are more likely to see a couple of different gins being inducted for different roles/mission profiles and handed over to the relevant units/forces. Ideally, we will love a new modern assault rifle to equip whole army, theoretically it also do not looks like a very big deal as we are surely going for a home production in case we do but when you look at the whole picture, the gins are not THE MOST hot issue right now.
All said, if we are going for a new gun in limited number, we may see the best option available, no compromise!!

Off course looks don't matter but still all sources are telling that FN SCAR is leading the trials. In fact it's leading massively.

 

[Zarvan]

 

[Zarvan]

 

[RAMPAGE]

@Dazzler @balixd @DESERT FIGHTER

Any idea what's the unit cost of Gen III MINI-14 monocular IoP?

 

[Zarvan]

@Dazzler @balixd @DESERT FIGHTER

Any idea what's the unit cost of Gen III AN/PVS-5C from IoP?

What is that ?