Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[pzfz]

US army hasn't decided on 6.8 or 6.5 yet. concept trials still to happen.

fn does offer a 6.5 creedmoor scar. 6.5 offers better range n penetration. main drawback is barrel life is shorter.

one of my SSG mates, he lost an eye due to 5.56...he had M4.....a firefight had just ended, all the enemy dead were hit by SSG's M4.....suddenly one of the guys (despite getting about 4 shots in his torso), in his dying throes, managed to let loose a shot towards my mate who detected him at the same time.....both fired at the same time, my mate lost his eye, the other lost his life finally.....

7.62 has advantages, it packs a massive punch......good for strong defence.

Do they not teach to finish off ur (assumed) kill at cherat? especially one hit in the torso...his eye is the fault of the operator(s) n not the weapon.

6.5x49 (creedmoor) is what I've been saying all along. Too bad it greatly reduces the barrel life of a rifle. Not suitable for poor countries or countries with large armies. Excellent range and accuracy - better than the 7.62x51. None of them will have the stopping power of a 7.62x39 or 7.62x51. But way better than the 5.56. 6.5 creedmoor is good for 800 yds + which would bring in engagement issues as a normal soldier shouldn't even be shooting out that far without knowing/id'ing his/her target properly.

Pak is going to induct a generational platform in an old caliber while the developed world moves on to newer and better things.

Said this in another thread way back in 2017. good thing the trials went nowhere. you don't decide on such an expensive endeavor by choosing off the shelf rifles. you build around a caliber that meets your future generational requirements and go on from there. none of the current rifles offer a leap that must be transferred to the regular jawan. get a couple thousand of whichever rifle for special purposes and that's it.

6.5 creedmoor travels faster, further, with less drift and more energy and penetration capabilities at target. It can also fit into an ar-15/assault rifle case. 7mm+ gets you into the battle rifle platform along with its associated weight issues...

6.0/6.5mm are also being tested as caseless ammo, further reducing costs and weight...

 

[PanzerKiel]

US army hasn't decided on 6.8 or 6.5 yet. concept trials still to happen.

fn does offer a 6.5 creedmoor scar. 6.5 offers better range n penetration. main drawback is barrel life is shorter.



Do they not teach to finish off ur (assumed) kill at cherat? especially one hit in the torso...his eye is the fault of the operator(s) n not the weapon.



Said this in another thread way back in 2017. good thing the trials went nowhere. you don't decide on such an expensive endeavor by choosing off the shelf rifles. you build around a caliber that meets your future generational requirements and go on from there. none of the current rifles offer a leap that must be transferred to the regular jawan. get a couple thousand of whichever rifle for special purposes and that's it.

In an open firefight where enemy is dominating the ground around you, and then you have to climb up and clear a mountain top, you cannot go around confirming your kills.... One has to wait for the firefight to end..... This incident happened right once the fire fight ended...

 

[Path-Finder]

US army hasn't decided on 6.8 or 6.5 yet. concept trials still to happen.

are you sure?

 

[pzfz]

are you sure?

upcoming concept trials r 6.8 but 6.5 weapon (s) r also be to be inducted. not decided if/when 6.5 caliber will also be tested.

 

[CriticalThought]

Bhai, please dont forget our 78 year old MG1A3 (MG-42 from 1942)



Waisay i am willing to wait a bit more for SCAR H......

Damn, knowledge of the SCAR fiasco goes up to the General level!! @Zarvan you are a famous man!

 

[Zarvan]

In an open firefight where enemy is dominating the ground around you, and then you have to climb up and clear a mountain top, you cannot go around confirming your kills.... One has to wait for the firefight to end..... This incident happened right once the fire fight ended...

Sir are you a General rank ????

Damn, knowledge of the SCAR fiasco goes up to the General level!! @Zarvan you are a famous man!

I was supporting SCAR because of the information I had. SCAR outclassed every other Rifle. It was the mud test where SCAR only faced issues other wise it was really good. That is why I keep saying if we are buying Tanks and Artillery and other stuff we should also get best Assault Rifle series in fact two Assault Rifle series and produce them in Pakistan.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sir are you a General rank ????


I was supporting SCAR because of the information I had. SCAR outclassed every other Rifle. It was the mud test where SCAR only faced issues other wise it was really good. That is why I keep saying if we are buying Tanks and Artillery and other stuff we should also get best Assault Rifle series in fact two Assault Rifle series and produce them in Pakistan.

Oh Bhai I am simply teasing you. About getting two series or a single modified calibre, that is an involved discussion. Let's see what they come up with. The comment by panzerkiel about differences on selling the BREN was very insightful. Shows you the variety of issues that are involved in the final decision.

 

[untitled]

upcoming concept trials r 6.8 but 6.5 weapon (s) r also be to be inducted. not decided

Will NATO follow suit?

 

[TsAr]

Sir are you a General rank ????


I was supporting SCAR because of the information I had. SCAR outclassed every other Rifle. It was the mud test where SCAR only faced issues other wise it was really good. That is why I keep saying if we are buying Tanks and Artillery and other stuff we should also get best Assault Rifle series in fact two Assault Rifle series and produce them in Pakistan.

Major PanzerKiel

 

[CriticalThought]

Sir are you a General rank ????

Major PanzerKiel

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/does-balochistan-fc-lacks-ambush-training.653791/page-2#post-12223898

 

[TsAr]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/does-balochistan-fc-lacks-ambush-training.653791/page-2#post-12223898

thats what I said his rank is major.....

 

[Armchair]

Instead of waiting for the US, Pak should decide on its own. In any case, Pak cannot follow the US as the US wants to make composite ammo which would need a different size of chambering. This isn't realistic for Pakistan.

Also, I absolutely hate the short sighted concept where someone comes and says "why don't Pakistan by x, y or z rifle and make it at home with an export licence"?

1. No rifle manufucturer worth his salt will do that except at an exhorbitant cost for a soon to be obsolete design. This is exactly the stumbling block Pak faced after the decade long time spent looking for the right rifle from goraland. A decade wasted.
2. You cannot be a true manufacturer of weapons by this method. R&D culture is the key to Pakistan's future development. That culture is the exact opposite of this mindset.
Building a simple thing like a rifle would help build that culture of constant effort, constant iteration, constant improvement not "let's get this from gora and let's tell them to give us a turn-key solution".

It's quite depressing to see this mindset not among the common laymen, but among people that consider themselves analysts and serious defense professionals.

It is the biggest sign of a mentally defeated people who cannot ever get up again until they change their mindset.

 

[bananarepublic]

Instead of waiting for the US, Pak should decide on its own. In any case, Pak cannot follow the US as the US wants to make composite ammo which would need a different size of chambering. This isn't realistic for Pakistan.

Also, I absolutely hate the short sighted concept where someone comes and says "why don't Pakistan by x, y or z rifle and make it at home with an export licence"?

1. No rifle manufucturer worth his salt will do that except at an exhorbitant cost for a soon to be obsolete design
2. You cannot be a true manufacturer of weapons by this method. R&D culture is the key to Pakistan's future development. That culture is the exact opposite of this mindset.
Building a simple thing like a rifle would help build that culture of constant effort, constant iteration, constant improvement not "let's get this from gor and let's tell them to give us a turn-key solution".

It's quite depressing to see this mindset not among the common laymen, but among people that consider themselves analysts and serious defense professionals.

It is the biggest sign of a mentally defeated people who cannot ever get up again until they change their mindset.

Pakistan should actually wait, the time is a blessing for us. It gives Pakistan plenty of time to upgrade POF ,while also involving OEMs to help us in local desgins and manufacturing.
Beefing up the private sector to absorb technology and give them a direction to desgin and produce weapons.
Till then the 6.5/6.8 will mature enough around the world to become a viable caliber to use.
Currently there is not hurry for a new gun our adversaries have it worse in small arms standardization and induction. A strong and long term commitment for a local arms industry will do wonders.

 

[Armchair]

Pakistan should actually wait, the time is a blessing for us. It gives Pakistan plenty of time to upgrade POF ,while also involving OEMs to help us in local desgins and manufacturing.
Beefing up the private sector to absorb technology and give them a direction to desgin and produce weapons.
Till then the 6.5/6.8 will mature enough around the world to become a viable caliber to use.
Currently there is not hurry for a new gun our adversaries have it worse in small arms standardization and induction. A strong and long term commitment for a local arms industry will do wonders.

I would respectfully disagree. Pakistan should have started developing a gun 10 years ago. Waiting more is just - dumb. It takes years to mature a gun design - again, the complete lack of understanding R&D creates a mindset that doesn't allow Pakistan to progress.

 

[bananarepublic]

I would respectfully disagree. Pakistan should have started developing a gun 10 years ago. Waiting more is just - dumb. It takes years to mature a gun design - again, the complete lack of understanding R&D creates a mindset that doesn't allow Pakistan to progress.

That's what I am saying, 6.5/6.8 have huge potential but it will take time for it to become mature. We have had POF for decades yet they have become lazy, the process should start now in R&D. Small arms chambered in traditional ammo have matured significantly and we would need a huge catching up to do. Rather than catching up guns Chambered in traditional caliber i.e 556/762NATO/762×39 it would be rather beneficial to start R&D on the new cartridge.
divert funds to develop a gun in 6.5/6.8 and pakistan would gain a strong foothold in the future small arms industry .