Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Ahmet Pasha]

Yeah project Azm is one. I hope they make a mean ***, kick *** performing and looking machine.
Cuz usually pakistani products perform okay but dont look as mean.
I know many will come und say "Its about performance, not looks"
But I think the very look of our machine should strike fear into hearts of enemy.
E.x Hamza 8x8 is an example if it was fine tuned it would be a mean *** weapon system. ( I am aware I sound like a 12 year old )

its happening now not everything can achieved over night. at least it has started.

 

[Path-Finder]

BREAKING: 7.62mm Rifle to REPLACE M4 Carbine – Interim Combat Service Rifle Solicitation Released by US Army

Original caption: "A Scout Sniper Team Marksman, part of the Recon Platoon from Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 124th Infantry Regiment, 53rd Brigade Combat Team, Florida Army National Guard fires a M110 semi-automatic sniper system rifle at a 600 meter target during a live fire long range marksmanship training and qualification course at the Arta training range in Djibouti, Oct 14, 2015." The M110 SASS is a 7.62mm sniper rifle system, similar to many rifles that may compete in the ICSR competition. Image source: US Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Gregory Brook. Public domain.

The US Army has released a solicitation for a new 7.62mm infantry rifle to replace the M4. The Interim Combat Service Rifle program, known to be in the works since April of this year, would replace M4 Carbines in use with combat units with a new weapon in the 7.62x51mm caliber. The new solicitation requires companies to submit 7 weapons plus ancillaries for testing, and includes the promise of up to 8 Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs, non-contract transactions), leading to the eventual selection of 1 weapon for a contract of 50,000 units.

The primary justification for the ICSR program are improved ceramic body armors that are resistant to existing forms of small arms ammunition. The logic goes that the Army’s new 5.56mm M855A1 round cannot penetrate these new armors, and therefore the service must switch to a new round. However, this is misleading, as current 7.62mm M80A1 is incapable of penetrating these body armors either – and specialty tungsten cored ammunition in both 5.56mm and 7.62mm calibers are capable of penetrating armor of this type. The US Army seems to be banking on its yet-undescribed XM1158 ADVAP round to bridge this gap – however Chief Milley himself admitted in testimony to Congress that the ADVAP’s design could be applied to either 7.62mm or 5.56mm ammunition.

These facts leave us with very little justification for the move to 7.62mm. It’s difficult to ignore the picture that a move towards a larger caliber infantry rifle has been lobbied for by manufacturers for over a decade, as it would give whoever won a toehold on a highly lucrative exclusive contract. Sadly, all this program will do is take a load off Chief Milley’s back, and put it on the backs of our troops. One wonders if General Milley is willing to write to families of the dead when ICSR-equipped units run dry of ammunition and are overrun by 5.45mm-armed foes.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-service-rifle-solicitation-released-us-army/

Hmmn interesting Even the US is going towards 7.62 calibre and rifles will enter competition! Will FN SCAR win? or HK417!

 

[Zarvan]

BREAKING: 7.62mm Rifle to REPLACE M4 Carbine – Interim Combat Service Rifle Solicitation Released by US Army

Original caption: "A Scout Sniper Team Marksman, part of the Recon Platoon from Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 124th Infantry Regiment, 53rd Brigade Combat Team, Florida Army National Guard fires a M110 semi-automatic sniper system rifle at a 600 meter target during a live fire long range marksmanship training and qualification course at the Arta training range in Djibouti, Oct 14, 2015." The M110 SASS is a 7.62mm sniper rifle system, similar to many rifles that may compete in the ICSR competition. Image source: US Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Gregory Brook. Public domain.

The US Army has released a solicitation for a new 7.62mm infantry rifle to replace the M4. The Interim Combat Service Rifle program, known to be in the works since April of this year, would replace M4 Carbines in use with combat units with a new weapon in the 7.62x51mm caliber. The new solicitation requires companies to submit 7 weapons plus ancillaries for testing, and includes the promise of up to 8 Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs, non-contract transactions), leading to the eventual selection of 1 weapon for a contract of 50,000 units.

The primary justification for the ICSR program are improved ceramic body armors that are resistant to existing forms of small arms ammunition. The logic goes that the Army’s new 5.56mm M855A1 round cannot penetrate these new armors, and therefore the service must switch to a new round. However, this is misleading, as current 7.62mm M80A1 is incapable of penetrating these body armors either – and specialty tungsten cored ammunition in both 5.56mm and 7.62mm calibers are capable of penetrating armor of this type. The US Army seems to be banking on its yet-undescribed XM1158 ADVAP round to bridge this gap – however Chief Milley himself admitted in testimony to Congress that the ADVAP’s design could be applied to either 7.62mm or 5.56mm ammunition.

These facts leave us with very little justification for the move to 7.62mm. It’s difficult to ignore the picture that a move towards a larger caliber infantry rifle has been lobbied for by manufacturers for over a decade, as it would give whoever won a toehold on a highly lucrative exclusive contract. Sadly, all this program will do is take a load off Chief Milley’s back, and put it on the backs of our troops. One wonders if General Milley is willing to write to families of the dead when ICSR-equipped units run dry of ammunition and are overrun by 5.45mm-armed foes.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-service-rifle-solicitation-released-us-army/

Hmmn interesting Even the US is going towards 7.62 calibre and rifles will enter competition! Will FN SCAR win? or HK417!

5.56 X 45 is good for short range combat or Police Work but in War you need caliber like 7.62 X 51

 

[Path-Finder]

5.56 X 45 is good for short range combat or Police Work but in War you need caliber like 7.62 X 51

Hazrat I am talking about the rifle that will win the replacement tender!

 

[CriticalThought]

5.56 X 45 is good for short range combat or Police Work but in War you need caliber like 7.62 X 51

The best round for general troop use in a war is the tried and tested AK-47 7.62x39 paired with limited number of 7.62x51 for marksmen purposes. In a modem war, anything else doesn't make sense because the days of infantry fights are over. Infantry will always by accompanied by artillery and/or armor to do the main damage. They would be idiots to go for x51 in very large numbers.

 

[Path-Finder]

The best round for general troop use in a war is the tried and tested AK-47 7.62x39 paired with limited number of 7.62x51 for marksmen purposes. In a modem war, anything else doesn't make sense because the days of infantry fights are over. Infantry will always by accompanied by artillery and/or armor to do the main damage. They would be idiots to go for x51 in very large numbers.

going for x51 seems to be a financial afterthought rather than calibre. they toyed with various calibres however the cost of inducting new calibre means its better to bring x51 back into service.

If only .280 British had been adopted maybe this faffing about with calibre would never have happened.

 

[Zarvan]

The best round for general troop use in a war is the tried and tested AK-47 7.62x39 paired with limited number of 7.62x51 for marksmen purposes. In a modem war, anything else doesn't make sense because the days of infantry fights are over. Infantry will always by accompanied by artillery and/or armor to do the main damage. They would be idiots to go for x51 in very large numbers.

Dude infantry fights are no where close to be over. And AK 47 is famous not for its caliber but for the Rifle being dependable as hell. As for fighting x 51 has massive edge over x 39

 

[Path-Finder]

Dude infantry fights are no where close to be over. And AK 47 is famous not for its caliber but for the Rifle being dependable as hell. As for fighting x 51 has massive edge over x 39

No Hazrat it's a package of rifle and the ammunition the AK fires. A reliable rifle is junk if it fires crap ammunition!! Think about it. The only reason AK has still stuck around is because of the projectile it spits out not reliability alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CriticalThought]

Dude infantry fights are no where close to be over. And AK 47 is famous not for its caliber but for the Rifle being dependable as hell. As for fighting x 51 has massive edge over x 39

Here is the scenario. Well dug in forces, with artillery and armor on both sides pounding each other's positions. Snipers are taking opportunity shots. ATGMs, rockets, mortars being used against man and machine. Meanwhile, machine guns are creating an insurmountable fence. If this is happening in open desert without natural cover, there will be a natural no man's land of 500m - 1 km. It would be suicidal to enter that region. An infantry battle will not take place until one side runs out of artillery and armor firepower, when the other side will push in backed by its own armor. In this scenario, you will be using ATGMs, machine guns, and snipers to take out the enemy. With these, you have a chance to hold the enemy at around 300 m. That's a range where AK-47 is completely useful. It gives you the advantage of accuracy, larger mag, mobility, and maneuverability. Flanking maneuvers will be easier with AK-47.

In hilly/rocky areas with natural cover, no man's land can go down to less than 500 m. In this case, if you put x51 in the soldier's hands, there will be a natural inclination to take pot shots from distance. By giving him x39, you force the soldier to close the gap. And that is what you want. You want your soldiers to take the initiative and bring the fight to the enemy.

In both the above scenarios, the deciding factors will be good sight and day/night capability coupled with better accuracy. Stopping power of x51 vs x39 would matter much less.

In both scenarios, flanking maneuvers will be a lot easier with an agile, nimble x39 rifle rather than a clunky x51.

 

[Zarvan]

Here is the scenario. Well dug in forces, with artillery and armor on both sides pounding each other's positions. Snipers are taking opportunity shots. ATGMs, rockets, mortars being used against man and machine. Meanwhile, machine guns are creating an insurmountable fence. If this is happening in open desert without natural cover, there will be a natural no man's land of 500m - 1 km. It would be suicidal to enter that region. An infantry battle will not take place until one side runs out of artillery and armor firepower, when the other side will push in backed by its own armor. In this scenario, you will be using ATGMs, machine guns, and snipers to take out the enemy. With these, you have a chance to hold the enemy at around 300 m. That's a range where AK-47 is completely useful. It gives you the advantage of accuracy, larger mag, mobility, and maneuverability. Flanking maneuvers will be easier with AK-47.

In hilly/rocky areas with natural cover, no man's land can go down to less than 500 m. In this case, if you put x51 in the soldier's hands, there will be a natural inclination to take pot shots from distance. By giving him x39, you force the soldier to close the gap. And that is what you want. You want your soldiers to take the initiative and bring the fight to the enemy.

In both the above scenarios, the deciding factors will be good sight and day/night capability coupled with better accuracy. Stopping power of x51 vs x39 would matter much less.

In both scenarios, flanking maneuvers will be a lot easier with an agile, nimble x39 rifle rather than a clunky x51.

In Pakistan India fight in any range won't be less than 400 M and AK effective range is around 350 Meters. With new Armor coming you need a caliber like 7.62 X 51 to cause more damage to enemy

 

[Path-Finder]

In Pakistan India fight in any range won't be less than 400 M and AK effective range is around 350 Meters. With new Armor coming you need a caliber like 7.62 X 51 to cause more damage to enemy

Hazrat where did you get these estimates from? No armor can truly stop x39 unless you hide behind a tank. Too many movies as it seems.

 

[CriticalThought]

In Pakistan India fight in any range won't be less than 400 M and AK effective range is around 350 Meters. With new Armor coming you need a caliber like 7.62 X 51 to cause more damage to enemy

At above 300m you are better off engaging with mortars, rockets, ATGMs, snipers, and machine guns, You want as many hands manning these as you can. Remember, success is about firepower and there simply is much better firepower available than x51.

About body armor, look at the bold I have added

The primary justification for the ICSR program are improved ceramic body armors that are resistant to existing forms of small arms ammunition. The logic goes that the Army’s new 5.56mm M855A1 round cannot penetrate these new armors, and therefore the service must switch to a new round. However, this is misleading, as current 7.62mm M80A1 is incapable of penetrating these body armors either – and specialty tungsten cored ammunition in both 5.56mm and 7.62mm calibers are capable of penetrating armor of this type.

 

[Zarvan]

At above 300m you are better off engaging with mortars, rockets, ATGMs, snipers, and machine guns, You want as many hands manning these as you can. Remember, success is about firepower and there simply is much better firepower available than x51.

About body armor, look at the bold I have added

These things never had and never will replace infantry. Every country is not idiot that they are coming up with future soldier programs. Infantry will always will be your main fighting force and in modern wars when enemies are coming up with much powerful Rifles with more range and powerful caliber you need similar things to answer

 

[Super Falcon]

Pak Should adopt a multi calliber rifle

 

[CriticalThought]

These things never had and never will replace infantry. Every country is not idiot that they are coming up with future soldier programs. Infantry will always will be your main fighting force and in modern wars when enemies are coming up with much powerful Rifles with more range and powerful caliber you need similar things to answer

Can you give any examples where 'enemies are coming up with much powrful Rifles with more range and powerful caliber'? The most hi-tech advancement is the XM25 and it is more of a grenade launcher. Due to the amount of ammo already produced and factories in place, the NATO standard 5.56, 39 and 51 are here to stay. The 'advancements' being made are in the form of more accuracy, lighter weight, new materials for the bullets etc.